Would this be rude to parents/in-laws?

[Suziesalmon]

Expecting second baby any day now. After DC1 was born, I very much struggled to bond, we had an influx of well meaning visitors very quickly and I found 'help' that was given by in-laws and parents unhelpful. I've been writing lists/ideas of how I want things to be this time and come up with idea of pinning a 'help list' to the cupboard or fridge of ideas/ways for parents to help us.

Last time, MIL wanted to rearrange my cupboards and DM only helped on her own terms: held baby when baby was sleeping- not helpful, offered to cook but arrived at 7.30pm with a bag full of ingredients yet to cook. DH and I starving by that time. Finally got to eat around 9pm... I literally had the shakes waiting for our meal! I was only a couple of weeks post-partum and v low on energy and ready for bed by 8pm! DF still expected me to make him cups of tea and kept telling me to hire a cleaner as my house was a mess- he however offered no cleaning.

I've mentioned to DM that I am going to draw up a ' help list' for anyone who is wanting to 'help' so that everyone can see what has/hasn't been done and what they can do to help, such as walking the dog, washing up, playing with DC, collecting him from school etc.
DM rolled her eyes and looked quite annoyed. I asked her what the problem was? Had I offended her? She responded that I hadn't offended her but that she didn't like to be directed.

Was she right to be offended? Is a help list rude? Any better ways I can go about this?

When my friend had a newborn I often dropped by with fresh bread and milk chocolate and sometime a ready cooked meal.

Didn't stay
Left a sleeping baby alone
Talked grown up stuff
Never mentioned down the mess
Offered to pick stuff up/drop round

Anyone who comments on the state of the house is welcome to either clean up or bugger off

Tell them straight 'yes the house isn't a mess - you're welcome to tidy up - studs under the sink'

Try newborn twins are PIL who visit for 4 days and expect waitress service - that didn't last long!'

Perhaps stop contact for a little while, don’t phone them and if they come around tell them you are head out? The housework can wait, and maybe buy a slow cooker for your meals - it will be your best friend. Parents and in-laws are not going to change personalities now- you need to take control.

'I’m a mother of three dc.I never expected my additional family members to be cooking and cleaning when I had a baby that’s what my dh was for and he helped during his paternity leave doing all the stuff you said plus school runs. You sound hardwork and bit PITA giving people lists.'

I'm a mother of three DC, too. And I cannot imagine visiting a new mum and baby and expecting to be waited on like a fucking hotel.

OP, your ILs and parents sound like hard work. And the posters who say such so-called guests will ignore your lists are right.

I'd tell them straight, 'We need to limit visits, Mum and Dad, because we're too tired to wait on guests and don't appreciate comments about the state of the house when we've just had a new baby.' And your DH tell his folks the same.

Cannot imagine going to see my one of my children's babies and expecting the father or mother to wait on me.

They don't sound like they'll be much help, list or no list so tell them that other than a quick introduction, they can wait a few months for you to diner your feet as you don't need the extra agro.

I'm a mother of three DC, too. And I cannot imagine visiting a new mum and baby and expecting to be waited on like a fucking hotel.

I agree with not being expected to been waited hand on foot but where is the ops dh in all this? Giving out lists to people is OTT when op has a dh who could been equally helping his new child?no?

I don't think the issue here is dh not stepping in and pulling his weight, I think it's in guests such as parents and in-laws preaching that they are coming to"help" and then doing naff all.

Why is it on mn that when someone has had a baby, new mum and dad are not only expected to attend to their guests, but they are also expected to explicitly ask for help from their so called families, and if they don't have the balls to ask then the issue is with them.

You would think that in certain circumstances, as in having a baby,, families would know they were needed to help, and would do so without making the new parents feel uncomfortable in having to ask.

A friend of mine recently had her second baby, when visiting I took lunch with me for all of us, helped tidy up after, and helped entertain her older dc when feeding. She didn't ask me to do this, but I'm her friend, she doesn't need to ask.

Mn seems to be some parellel universe where unless you ask for help you get a "suck it up buttercup" response. It's nonsense.

Those that care and want to help will do so regardless, you won't need to ask, and you will know they truly care and are kind loving people. Those that mask their intensions to sit on your sofa and hold your baby as coming over to "help", will do just that, and then give themselves a big Pat on the back for being such a wonderful person.

But he could be but he didn’t budget to take paternity off. OP wants help but to give people lists of what to do. If they choose to have come round then her dh can step in make a cuppa and limit the time they are there for.

When I had dc family came round for 20mins and dh made the cuppas. Surely the whole point for paternity is for the father to bond with their newborn and support the mother?

Yes the list is rude.

If you need help with specific things such as walking the dog and collecting DC from school, surely you need to put something in place before baby arrives? Or are you just planning on leaving your DC at school and hoping each day that someone notices this task on “the help list”

Nothing wrong with having a list of things that need doing in order of priority for you and your DH to work to. That way if anyone else offers help, they can work from the same list you do which could never be seen as rude

Thank you for your thoughts all.
Dancing Monkey: I don't need to go into explanation about paternity leave but as you're too narrow minded to consider any other experience but your own... it's also not up to "him" to budget for anything, it's up to us both. We both work.
Unfortunately, our savings had to go elsewhere on something unexpected and urgent. We will lose 1000 if DH takes paternity leave. He does not get AL. You have no idea of our situation/careers/finances or what they allow and you're not in a position to compare our situation to your own. Congratulations that your DH was able to take AL.

I like the idea of a list for ourselves which is visible to family members also if I need to be subtle. I definitely don't want any visitors during the first week once we're home from the hospital, however I.guess I may feel an obligation for short visits should anyone arrive with cooked meals for us. MIL did this last time in return for newborn cuddles. Fingers crossed, there won't be much opportunity if I'm breast feeding.

I think having a list is a sensible idea but when some people offer help they mean hold the baby which does not always help. Maybe have the list handy each day and when people offer help show it to them. Be prepared for none of them to actually help though if they are not that sort of people. Do you have a close friend who could help if your DH is not around that much and DP and PIL turn out to be useless?

Yes we have arranged for a neighbour to take DS to school for the first 2 weeks with her DS. DH will be collecting DS most days and PILS are going to be collecting him some days, I will do what I can. The plan is that if I'm feeling ok to do school runs after 2 weeks I will do the majority, but we do have people we can ask to help if not.
DH has 6 weeks off over the summer, so there will be help with DS1 at home.

Why don't you just speak to people? It was great when you cooked us our evening meal, but it would be good if we could eat around 6pm as I am so tired etc. Alternatively, why don't you discourage visitors when DH is at work? Get DS to school and then just take it easy with your newborn. Get online shops ordered now. I had DC before paternity leave so had to get on with things on my own after the first few days. I found the sleep deprivation hard as I was breastfeeding, but apart from that I just cracked on.

I had DC before paternity leave so had to get on with things on my own after the first few days

I think she'd cope perfectly well on her own, the issue is visitors appearing making rude remarks about the house and expecting waitress service.

'Cooking a meal at 9pm andnprobably leaving all the washing up isn't 'help'

Discourage visitors in the early days.

If people offer help ask for ready cooked meals to be given to you.

Keep your list handy to refer to if visitors come, tell them to take the dog out etc. etc.

Tell your own parents what's what....no picking up a sleeping baby ...make their own drinks and get one for you too...when they come in tell them you won't be serving them, if they don't like that they can leave straight away.
DH can tell his own parents the same.

When they've been there for half an hour or so, tell them you are off to rest so they will have to leave.

Be firm but pleasant.

If anyone comments on the untidy house, hand them a mop or brush without saying a word.

Why not create a list for you and DH? If someone visits and there is something left unticked then suggest they look at it. That way its just a jobs list, and not a jobs for visitors list. Which yes, is maybe rude. Its a bit late now though, and I guess they know about the initial list idea...

I would, as other posters suggest, just heavily discourage visits.

There are definitely 2 different types of visitors when you have a baby, those that help and those that are an added burden. My Mum was a helper, my in-laws were a burden expecting to be waited on. It was a difficult time.

I would make a "things to do" list that is visible, so everyday things like tidying, cooking, laundry etc under the guise of something you and your Dh need to be doing but if you have visitors they need to be completing something off the list. And when they come through the door you say I'd love a cup of tea.

I didn't have any help from family due to geography and then a move with Dh's job so no friend network to rely on. It was incredibly difficult but I was lucky I didn't have a stream of visitors. I have made sure that as a visitor to anyone with a newborn I am a helper.

I spent 2 days with a friend who after her second child admitted over the phone that she could feel herself spiralling into PND again. I left my 2 children in the capable hands of my Dh, drove 3 hours, made her a cup of tea, stripped the bed, blitzed her kitchen, sorted clothing/laundry, took the toddler to the park with the baby in the pram so she could get a solid hour sleep (EBF baby) because that is what friends do.

As to the discouraging visitors thing, I told everyone I needed people to arrange visits and that the phone would be off and to leave messages and I’d call when I wasn’t sleeping.

I left a note on the front door warning I’d kill anyone who rang the doorbell and woke me and the new baby. That worked! 😁

You sound delightful AdaColeman...

I think in general pleases and thank yous to guests shouldn't be too hard to muster. "Please can you help me unload this washing" "Please can you make me a quick brew if you're making one" etc. I imagine most people wouldn't say no or feel hard done to at helping out a new mum :)

I think the rules and demanding is where it crosses a link. The "bring a cooked meal then leave after half an hour" and expecting guests who come to visit you and baby to go out walking your dog before handing it back and clearing off is quite rude. You chose to have a baby and it doesn't suddenly entitle you to talk to people like they're a massive inconvenience and be rude.

*crosses a line

My worry with the list would be that my MiL would see it as a challenge to finish every last thing on there!! She's lovely, but would totally grasp the opportunity to be so helpful, that she wouldn't leave til it was done. Challenge accepted type of scenario!

What Namechange wrote. You don't have guests, OP, you have hindrances. I'm so glad I have a mother who is thoughtful and helpful. I wouldn't even tell your folks or ILs when you go into labour or have the baby and if they ask I'd tell them why. 'I won't be dictated to' is why, Mum.' I'm tired and don't feel well and need help, not someone to hold the baby.' And your DH saying similar to his dad.

Honestly, who goes to visit a newborn and expects fucking cups of tea made for them? Who does this to their own son or daughter when they have a baby? Or friend or sibling? Who's so dense they need to be asked not to be a hindrance?

I think discouraging visitors as much as possible will be the way forward! I certainly don't want to be dishing jobs out to visitors, it's more a case of me not wanting unhelpful "help" and so giving them something that is actually helpful to do if they're so keen on "helping."
What about parents who live long distances? How can I keep their visits short and sweet if they've travelled so far? I'm happy for initial short visits for close family members in the first couple of days but then would rather they leave us alone for a week or 2. My parents visited for atleast 2 hours each day the first 3 days after DS birth and then travelled back home. Keeping the visits short just seemed unfair when they had travelled so far to meet him. They visited again the following week for a few days and that is when DM offered to cook for us but at unreasonable times causing more problems.