Staying with abusive man to protect children

[whatsupport]

Someone I am close to is staying with her husband because she is certain he'd get shared custody if they split and she is sure he would be abusive to the dc.

She has said that no one else knows about this, and that it would make things worse if they did, but that I need to know in case she becomes ill etc. DC all great, doing well, emotionally intelligent. She says she only has x number of years before they are grown and she can cope with waiting. I have changed a few things in this, to keep it anonymous.

She has said to him that if he is abusive to the dc or violent to her she will leave, and he doesn't want her to leave, and he sticks to those "rules".

He has been very abusive in the past verbally and she said if he didn't stop she'd leave and he is now not nearly as abusive as he has been.

He now has affairs and is controlling and occasionally verbal but she says she rarely sees him, he only ever sees her and the dc when she organises something, she is almost like a single parent, and that when she asks him to do something, such as spend the day with them and be nice, every few months, he does it.

She thinks if she met someone else things would change and he would cause a lot of trouble.

How do I best support her?

Be there for here. Just be solid and non judgemental. She sounds like she needs someone on her side.

I think that in abusive relationships there are always periods where it is quite calm and she may think that she can handle it but it could escalate back into a dangerous situation for your friend.
It sounds so grim and unpleasant for her to live like that for another 6-10 years, please encourage her to leave.

Tell her to ring Woman's Aid...

What does she want you to do?

runrabbit take action if anything happens to her, not so much the fear of him doing anything, more if there is an accident or something, to make sure the dc are not left there.

In relation to leaving the only problem is the shared custody (or whatever the correct term is) if they split.

Thank you for the responses.

How does she think you could "take action" if something happened to her, when she has put so much effort into pretending to the outside world that everything is OK?

I find it hard to believe that if he is genuinely abusive, she's actually managing to protect them. Abusers and abuse in the home doesn't really work like that. She's kidding herself and finding ways to justify her avoidance of the confrontation that leaving him would inevitably become.

I think she should discuss this with Women's Aid. They won't pressure her to leave, if she doesn't want to.
She needs to understand that you won't be able to do anything to prevent the children from continuing to live with their dad, if she is not there.

he only ever sees her and the dc when she organises something, she is almost like a single parent, and that when she asks him to do something, such as spend the day with them and be nice, every few months, he does it.

On that basis, he would decidedly not have a 50/50 arrangement for seeing the children. They would spend the majority of their time with the parent who has previously spent the majority of their time with them. This worried me when I left XH, but my solicitor was quite clear that this couldn't possibly happen.

I know of a similar situation where a mother feels unable to completely split from her partner because she is worried about him abducting the children or having unsupervised contact and that having an even worse effect on them than trying to work with him continually. He is a terrible bully and she doesn’t want the DC being emotionally abused without her around to comfort and make them feel safe but she is also horrified that if the status quo doesn’t change they will turn out like their dad.

I’m sure she plays down how bad it is but I suspect she is exhausted, ground down and confused (lots of gaslighting) and doesn’t know what to do. She has also has a chronic health condition and similar to the OP she’s frightened that they would be left with him if anything happened to her. In spite of all this she hates to say anything bad about him because he is their Dad.

Sorry, I don’t have any advice but I’m watching with interest as I would also like to know how I might better support my friend. As it is I try not to pry but just offer a sympathetic ear and tell her it’s not her fault and acknowledge that I know she is doing her best and that I’ll do anything I can to help if she says the word. Reading this has made me think I should do something more but I don’t know what. Woman’s Aid is a good idea. Do they accept calls from friends about situations like this? They probably do but I hadn’t thought of that. I could call on her behalf and see what they say and without mentioning what I had done just drop some advice into the conversation next time it comes up. Based on what the OP has said that could be a useful option in your scenario too perhaps.

In any case, I wish you and your friend the best and she’s fortunate to have someone who cares enough to think about this. You’ve actually prompted me to think I should probably do more to help too. It is a tricky one though.

How would it be proved, Athena?

when she asks him to do something, such as spend the day with them and be nice, every few months, he does it

I'd suggest she stops doing this. The less contact her children have with an abuser, the better.

How old are the DC, OP?

@athenaashton was your exH honest about it, he didn't play games, such as claiming you had stopped him spending time with dc?

I think she has spoken to both Relate and Women's Aid in the past.

@luckytwiglet please could you explain a bit more about "She's kidding herself and finding ways to justify her avoidance of the confrontation that leaving him would inevitably become" and about "I find it hard to believe that if he is genuinely abusive, she's actually managing to protect them. Abusers and abuse in the home doesn't really work like that" because I have read the comments a few times and I am really not sure what you mean. In relation to protection, they aren't dealing with abuse directed at them without anyone to shield them, and they aren't seeing any significant abuse, though they may have done many years ago. It is true that they aren't seeing their mother in a normal loving healthy relationship though.

It's quite tricky to comment/advise on this without knowing the nature of the abuse (which I realise you probably can't detail). I can see that with some forms of abuse your friend could be (in the short term) protecting the kids and herself by staying in the situation. With other forms, it's basically impossible to protect from it without entirely removing from the situation.

I agree with PP basically that all you can do is be there and support. But you could also point out gently to your friend that there will be very limited options available to you if she does get ill, etc. You really wouldn't be able to do much, I don't think. And Women's Aid is also a good idea.

I think it's sadly a very common situation, for a woman to stay with the father of her kids to prevent unsupervised access.

My mother did this. Years after they split we were talking about childhood and she was horrified when she related what my dad had been doing when she wasn't in the same room, she had no idea how bad we had it. He never laid a finger on her and was emotionally abusive, gaslighting etc but with us he was physical, and she never ever knew.
My point, and I do understand that she feels she is protecting them, is that she doesn't know how bad they have it now. She can't know if she is protecting them by staying. I would absolutely have preferred a 50/40 custody split for the sheer relief of knowing that half the time I was always safe in my own bedroom, the other half would have been no change for me.
Encourage her to talk with women's aid, they won't make her leave if she doesn't want to but if anyyhing, god forbid , gets worse then she will know what to do.
Also the fact she has truest you with this means you are a good friend and I am really glad for her that she has you even just to talk to

*when she realised what my dad had been doing
Sorry for typos, emotional typing does that!

Mallorie that is awful.
Op maybe you could speak to a family solicitor to see how the la s would lie if she did separate or perhaps encourage her to make a few calls?

One practical thing that you could do that might help is offer to mind the children or take them to yours for a play date for a few hours now and then and give her an opportunity to get her life and a long term plan organised. A few free hours might give her time to organise meeting with a solicitor or just a chance to think straight and investigate her options. Depending on how old her children are she may have very little time to herself to even begin to figure out how to take the next step or what it should be. With small children and an unsupportive partner she possibly spends each day running to stand still and so is stuck in a rut. Even with older kids this could be the case , particularly if she’s working too. And being around someone abusive is just so debilitating.

You sound like a good friend.

Another small thing might be to remind her of her good qualities and rather than make her feel weak for staying (which as a good friend you clearly aren’t doing), try to build her confidence up to leave.

I think you have to be scared to stay in a situation like that so just keep reminding her that she can talk to you without fear of judgment or “making it worse”. She is scared of unsupervised access which sounds totally reasonable and plausible in its own right but there could be more on top of that that she hasn’t mentioned.

Can you give an indication of the children’s ages? I understand if you can’t and feel that’s too revealing.

My ex was this,everything was in his name, he was with me 24/7! He said no judge would let me keep them, no where to live, no money, no job, no car, no nothing!

I did leave. He did take the kids. It was awful!
I got them back through the court.

Unfortunately it's evidence so diary is a must.

Write down every thing. Every comment, to her or DCs, every affair, every time he's missing. You need to build a picture. The coercive control laws came into effect in 2015, years after I needed them so report his ways to the police. Also economical abuse has just come in so if he financial abusive write it down.
It really is hard to advise without specifics ( I know your protecting your friend ) but ringing women's aid or seeing a solicitor she can get specific advice on how to record.

I agree above you don't see it as a whole pucture when you are in these circumstances all the time, you think you are protecting them by not leaving. I said that to myself for years.
The way I explain it is it's not that we are saying she's not getting abused. She is, but coming from this myself you talk yourself into thinking it's normal and right and your friend has changed her normal behaviour to please him to stop why he abusers her. Without specifics it's hard to pin point her behaviour changes but for starters the acceptance of affairs and controlling behaviour. No women should accept that but she has. So she's justifying her acceptance by if she does nothing about it then he leaves her alone, but what women in a 'normal' (mrelationship would justify that behaviour. It's no criticism. I did it. You do it as you think it's the best way to protect yourself and DCs from abuse.

Also what 'normal' relationship would she hardly see her partner ( unless works abroad ) and single handedly be raising the children if she is in a relationship, another justification of his absence to protect herself.

She may as well be away from it if she's doing it alone.

Can you get her to a solicitor?
Lots do free half an hour so she can get legal advice that she won't have to do shared cared?

My ex got stopped from having contact until a full hearing was done once, unfortunately I was scared I agreed to his proposals on overnight. Had I had the experience I have now I wouldn't have done.
I'm 10 years down the line so have dealt with EA all throughout leaving him, the perception of accepting control through children is changing, albeit it slowly.
How do the children feel about being alone with him? If she did leave and it went to court they would be asked this. If they said frightened then she's likely to get supervised any way. If 9 plus there wishes should be heard if she left and she went to court.

Has he ever threatened to remove the children if she left? Has she challenged to try leave and threatened her? Or is it fear of unsupervised access if she did leave?

It's really hard to leave. Just as a friend support her decisions but make sure ( if possible ) she get unbiased legal advice to give her all the options

mallorie that sounds awful, and I am sorry, but the opposite applies here, the dc are literally never alone with the father. Never. They hardly see him. Would that make a difference, if that had been the case for you, do you think?

This is what i did . Did work I hope so . But kids hate me for and both think their dad and famliy are great ( there were thing i did know about his famliy very very glad I kept them away) . It destroyed me has taken me years to get over ( don't think I ever will)
It took year just to money stuff sorted and £10000 . God know what he would have been like over kids access. He would have control my life in whole different way.

twogoround, I am really sorry. I hope that they can understand what you were doing at some point, and that you meet a lovely man who you can trust (if you'd like to). Can you write it all down, so that when your dc are ready to talk you will have it all there ready?

Whatsupport, yes and no, yes that she is probably aware of anything that is going on, but also, if he is emotionally abusing his wife, how do the children feel about it.
(Bear in mind this is my experience, and might not be relevant, and also I still think this whole thread shows what a good friend you are!)
I still, years later, have major self esteem problems, but know that they are mostly my child brain talking now. I was emotionally neglected and abused by him, just little words people say can reduce me to tears still. The stuff my mum was seeing was what she was being given as well and I hated seeing her like that.
Zero contact would be better but yes, in that situation always supervised Vs unsupervised is a no brainer and I can totally see your friends point of view.
Still, the fact that she has started the conversation is really heartening.