How do we afford to break up?

[BeanCalledPickle]

I am pretty sure we are done. I’m not happy and haven’t been for years. We sleep apart, have very little affection and clearly just annoy each other. I don’t even want to find ways to make it work, but maybe I would if I could see a way out?

We have two DD, nearly 3 and 5. He is and has always been an excellent father. We both work four days and he does huge amounts for them, probably more than me. I can’t really fathom taking them away from their father and I can’t imagjne ever wanting to. I have no wish to punish him or them.

We own a house worth about 650k with an outstanding mortgage of about 150k. I earn about 55k, him 25k. We don’t have significant disposable income. Nursery fees have eaten up a lot of our savings but we do have about 50k of my inheritance, mainly in premium bonds in his name. We broadly break even at the end of the month. We could make savings. But we couldn’t possibly afford to pay to rent / buy any sort of other suitably sized property locally. Minimum rent would be about 1200 for a two bed flat.

If we were to split up he basically couldn’t afford to support himself on what he earns locally. Even if I were to plug the gap then I wouldn’t be able to do it to the extent that another property was affordable. I guess we could sell this place but we would struggle to buy two flats and I don’t really want to disrupt the girls that much.

Are we effectively stuck together? We already live very much apart together with our own rooms etc. I’m forty this year. I can’t live like this forever more. Though I am prepared to sacrifice myself in the short term for the sake of my girls. I am resentful that he hasn’t sought promotions or advancement and is unlikely to earn much more going forward. I don’t really want to support him for life but I do understand that when I made those wedding vows I effectively agreed to that. Many threads on here go on about women protecting themselves but ultimately he got the financial protection on marriage. The house was 450k, paid for by the sale of my 240k flat and a massive chunk of my inheritance. But I’m guessing that counts for nothing absent an agreement to that effect.

But in any event I would write that all off as long as everyone was happy, housed and financially ok but I just can’t see how...

To be honest, you have to weigh up what you're willing to compromise.

Is there, at this point, anything that could be tried to save the relationship; given that it seems to suit you much more to stay in it?

If not, it might well boil down to just making it work the best you can until you are unhappy enough to compromise on one of the options, even if it's not how you want life to be. Because at some point, if your relationship isn't saveable, you won't want to life like that either.

But if you do want to split, there are options. Smaller houses, living further out, etc. Not great options, admittedly, but they are there. No perfect solution will present itself (unless he evaporates, as a PP said, although that could be traumatic for your children!)

I’m not sure that it is your problem if you both work the same % of full time. £25k with a £100k mortgage and 1/2 of two children is eminently manageable. £109k moretage at today’s rates would be £450 pcm over 25 years, plus food and toiletries at £200pcm, bills at about £250pcm say, if you have cheap phones and lower electric bills because you’re in a flat (I’m in a poorly insulated 2 bed end of terrace and pay £200), plus 1/2 of nursery assuming 30hrs free as she is 3, then pro rate across the year to approx 22per week gives two days of nursery between you so effectively one day per week so say £300pcm, that’s £1300, plus transport and other bits takes you up to a tight but just-about-breaking even position. He can then choose to go for promotions etc to make things less tight if he so chooses.

Could you have a lodger/lodgers (a couple for example) to ease the income situation? So the 'moving out' parent (dad?) is receiving their share of the equity in the house as rent, to help cover mortgage/rent on their property until you are able to downsize/split the property? That way you get to start your new lives apart, which I assume would be much better for both of you.

Have you actually talked to him about splitting up but living in the house together? That’s what I would be suggesting. You live pretty separate lives as it is, it will just leave you and him free to pursuit relationships elsewhere.

The longer you leave it the less borrowing capability you have as your mortgage term gets shorter. I’m guessing the longer you stay together the more you have in your pension pot, which he gets a claim on.

Why do you feel responsible for looking after him financially? Have you explored this? This may be the reason you are struggling to break up. Ultimately as an adult he is responsible for himself. Does he worry about you financially? Does he contribute a fair share financially towards the house? You split, you sort yourself out financially. You don’t need to answer these questions of course. I just wonder why you feel so responsible for paying for him post split?

Move out of London to a cheaper area but with a main line train for commuting? Look at Sussex, Kent, Essex...half hour commute but much cheaper property? Garden flats so 2 beds with a small garden. If you get something in a nice area with a park then the loss of a big garden isn’t a huge deal. I know lots of people who have split and taken kids to flats with no garden but close to local park/rec ground. It’s all working fine and they are much much happier

HAYWARDS HEATH, West Sussex
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-64467352.html

Here you go. This is prime commuter belt and affordable if you sell for the 650k

I think you should go talk to a lawyer about what you'd get in the divorce, as with you contributing most of the house purchase, through sale of another property and inheritances, I'd have thought, you'd get those amounts back and then 50/50 the equity left.

Whether he can afford a nice big house is his problem, not yours.
As you say he has shown no inclination to improve his earnings, he'll have to bear the consequences of his actions.

Perhaps get legal advice? I'm london too and hear what you're saying re not wanting to lose your home and housing costs etc. I think you should try and keep your home for the sake of your and dds' security. Can your husband manage rent on his own a reasonable distance from you (to allow access)? Can you manage financially on your own? If so perhaps, with appropriate advice you could go for a clean break whereby you keep the family home and he doesn't pay maintenance? Glad to hear your community supportive.

OP why are you so unhappy. What makes you think being in a different building would help that? Sounds like you already have plenty of space. Work on making yourself happy, hobbies, friends etc.

It’s funny really
All parents seem to think all the kids want is a garden and a nice home
When you ask your 15 year old what they want for a birthday present and the answer is for you both to divorce? How would you feel.
Hypothetical I know, but it’s happened to people I know, and it was a total shock to them, not to anyone else they knew

DC are so young still. You said you didn't really want the 2nd DC and have not yet found a balance.

I would be very wary of splitting up based on this.

25k is an average wage outside of London, I can see how you feel resentful at being the main earner and also the main responsible parent for the house and wifework. What does DH say when you tell him how unhappy you are with the balance of responsibilities in the marriage? Has he got any ideas of how the balance could be improved?

With the DC so young it seems that the underlying issue is to get back on track with the balance in your life.

I think the post up thread about no longer thinking like a couple hits the nail on the head. You own the house due to the flat that you previously owned, if he moved out he could could rent a flat, he may be entitled to housing benefit (not ideal, but this would be for him to sort out).

Perhaps the other question would be: can we afford to stay together? What's the long term outlook if life carries on as it is, I only say that as IME living in an unhappy relationship doesn't do great things for self confidence or happiness, both of which can have a knock on effect at work.

Is he happy with things as they are?

Im grateful to all those who have taken time to post. Some advice has been spot on. The PP who asked why I think a different building would help is bang on. I have no idea why I think that! I have no interest in pursuing a different relationship. I am too exhausted for that!

Also those who comment on why I am still thinking about us as a couple; is it that unusual to want the other parent to be comfortable enough that he can accommodate his children when they are with him etc? I don’t want him miles away or renting somewhere they couldn’t stay. I can see that a garden etc isn’t necessary but I would like to keep them in their home and school if possible. I’ve explained that moving out might save housing but would massively increase commuting costs.

In any event lots to think about. Yesterday I was feeling absolutely desperate to escape and part of that desperation is born out of not seeing any sort of plan. I can see that buying him out might give him enough money to buy a flat and that might work. Though with a lot less cash and disposable income.

Obviously will come as no surprise that my own parents had a terrible relationship as did his. These things seem to perpetuate. They’d stayed together though. Wonder if we will just go the same way..

Look into two bed houses in Dagenham. Not the best area but it means you can stay zone 4/5 and be on the district line. You could probably buy for under 300k.

It is literally the cheapest place inside the M25 on the underground. If underground is not essential then try for Erith or Rainham.

Another thing to consider OP is maybe remortgaging by say 75k, give it to him so he can subsidise a flat rent elsewhere but he retains the difference between this and the equity he would be due now until children are 18 or you sell up, whichever is first, I know someone else who did this

Thanks but as I’ve explained above I have a community and support network here and don’t want to leave that behind.

Well something has to give. You can't maintain the same lifestyle and split, so accept there will be losses for the gain of a happy home. Look into the facts (not assumptions) of commuting costs vs housing costs, look at different areas, look at all the possible things you could do and their costs and benefits. Presently it's all just no no no don't want to do that - it's a trap of your own making.

I have. We did that calculation when we moved here. It was a choice between paying an additional few hundred a month on train fares or on the mortgage. We chose to pay more on the house than on trainfares. Here we can pay as we go, further out the fares are significantly more and don’t have the flexibility. For example 4.5k a year from letchworth for a season ticket. Here a variety of peak and off peak and different transport methods see us paying 1200 each. So that’s 6.5 k more a year, over 500 quid a month. I have worked this out.

And here we share after school and holiday care with friends. If we moved out we would need to pay for that which would probably amount to several thousand a year. Basically life here is entrenched that the extraction costs would far outweigh the savings. I have a spreadsheet with all these permutations.

You're going to struggle to change anything when you're not willing to change anything

Exactly

But you wouldn't be paying his expenses.

It sounds like you need a holiday OP - seriously. Go be by yourself, even just for 1 night. Do everything that you want to do, for you.

I would unfortunately. I’m a solicitor and well aware that I would be expected to help meet his expenses and general cost of living. In the same way that the higher earner does in any divorce. He could make a very respectable argument that he has limited his own earning potential to look after the kids while I pursued my career and he’d be absolutely correct.

So the other option is remain this way till youngest starts primary school?

But he wouldn't move with you, so you don't know what his expenses would be.

Seems like the only compromises you're willing to make are on your own happiness.