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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Row with friend

31 replies

DangerEgg · 29/03/2018 12:57

This is long but requires a it of background,

Met up with very good friend late January as she has been having some problems with her DD1 so I said let's meet up for a catch up and you can tell me what is happening. Her DD1 was struggles at school academically and she is trying to get some individual support or a diagnosis. My friend who has a very academic backgound has a difficult relationship with her daughter which she acknowledges. She gets very impatient with both her DDs and has a hard time bonding with eldest who is 9.

Our DDs have been friends since they were babies, we met at a class. They are less close now but will play together, chat when out etc. Her DD1, is more outgoing and sociable, my DD1 is quite shy. We both have younger DDs who get on very well.

We spend A LOT of time talking about her DD1, and her behaviour, and her problems at school. It can consume the whole evening.

The conversation turned to a meal we had at Christmas. We were at a pub restaurant. The behaviour of her two DDs and my younger DD was very poor, making too much noise, disturbing other diners and I had to remonstrate with them on a few occasions. My friend and her partner just looked embarrassed and muttering to each other about how humiliating their children were and each telling the other to deal with it or shouting at them. My partner wasn't doing too much to help either.

My DD1 was sat at a table drawing, she hates noise and confrontation and the more they were misbehaving, the more she didn't want to get involved. Her DD1 was going up to her saying random things like do you like various pop stars etc then running off. DD1 was responding but they weren't getting on like they do usually. However, by the end of the meal they were all getting on well, behaving better and were out in the garden running around.

At our night out, talking about how her daughter struggles at school, and how she feels about herself, she said that after that Christmas meal, her DDI told her that my DD1 'full of herself' and 'too big for her own boots' and that my DD1 made her DD1 feel stupid.

I said, (not unkindly but I was not happy) I don't think you need to have told me that, as in what relevance does that one outing have with regards to the wider issue of her daughters problems. I said I don't want to hear what your DD1 is saying about my DD1, especially unkind things, they are supposed to be friends, (though reading this back, they aren't really) I said she wasn't making her feel stupid, she was just minding her own business, and keeping out of trouble , I then said, what do you want me to do with that information when we see eachother?

Well upon me saying this, my friend exploded at me, I have never seen such fury from her. 'How do think I me and DH feel with her behaviour, we have to deal with her every day, is that all you can say, how can you be so insensitive to say that, its all about you, do you know what I go through, how every day is hard with my daughter. She stormed off to the toilets crying. I sat there dumbfounded. She came back and said she didn't think we could be friends if that was the way I felt and if that was all the support I could give her. I was quite stunned at this, as we have always been mutually supportive .

So me being the peacekeeper, I hate rows of any kind, apologised for upsetting her calmed her down, and tried to make the peace and we left on good terms. We met again a few days later with families and nothing was raised about this row.

In addition to this, she told me some very personal information about a friend of hers who I have met a few times twice which she most definitely should not have told me (she has also told her husband) and now now I am wondering whether I am ever able to confide in her again.

I haven't seen her since, we have texted general hi etc. We often don't get to meet up until the holidays so nothing unusual there.

She wants to meet up soon. The whole event has been playing round in my mind. Was I so wrong to say what I did? She made me feel like the worst friend in the world.

OP posts:
cupoflemontea · 29/03/2018 13:26

Eugh. She sounds like hard work. One way street.

Honestly? I'd just be more 'busy' and move on.

When my dd had a mean friend I told the mum a big lie.

I said I wasn't happy with my dds behaviour and that play dates were off the table for now. It gave us some distance. Dd knew I'd lied

I know your circumstances are different but I'm turning it around to keeping 'my own house in order' it gave some relief all round.

Hissy · 29/03/2018 13:55

I'm not usually one to side with people who kick off, but your friend is clearly really struggling with her DD, the diagnosis, the lack of academic success etc.

If I were you, I'd arrange something for just you and her and have a bottle of wine and forget about it all. I do think you are wise to be careful what you confide though, but it sounds like she needs someone to be there for her. Make it a no kids thing.

DangerEgg · 29/03/2018 14:08

Hissy, she is struggling, I totally get that.

But I'm thinking now, maybe because I'd suggested we meet and she was expecting me to be as I am - ie listening, advising, supporting; to see me on the defence and saying she was out of order totally knocked her for six?

Even so, it wasn't just her upset, it was 'friendship ending fury' Sad

OP posts:
SeaEagleFeather · 29/03/2018 14:22

Been on the receiving end of a similar thing, though the 'friend's' son behaved appallingly to my son -chargeable offence if they were older - and she exploded at me (no concern at all about my verging-on-clinically-traumatized son).

Thinking back, it's exactly the same. The woman had endlessly worried about her child's behaviour and endlessly shared her concerns. When I finally showed (much too late) that I wasn't going to put up with what was going on, she exploded because she, herself, was so worried and she couldn't bear to face the way she herself felt about it. So she literally minimized and put all the blame on our family, which was 100% the other way round from what actually happened.

I'd been too patient with the signs that she was shuffling off responsibility for her son's challenging behaviour onto everyone else, because we were friends. (I should have drawn a line much earlier and I'll never forgive myself for that. But that's my issue)

Your friend is obviously upset and worried but step away, because she's dumping it all on you and that'll only get worse not better. The big danger here is that your oldest DD and you will end up bullied, which is already starting to happen. You had no need to apologise and in fact, shouldn't have.

Adora10 · 29/03/2018 14:29

NO offence OP but how do you know your DD didn't make her DD feel stupid, you couldn't have heard everything.

I think you are taking it far too personally, for her to go the loo crying shows just how she is struggling, sorry, I think you are being very petty considering what she is dealing with, ok, she might not have put it nicely but she clearly felt under attack.

If you want her in your life then put this nonsense behind you both, that's if you do.

Angelf1sh · 29/03/2018 14:53

It’s interesting how views on this are totally different. Based on what you’ve said, to me your “friend” sounds totally self-absorbed and a complete cow. If she’d acted like that to me, I’d have told her to fuck off and left her to it. I certainly don’t think you needed to apologise for what you said, exactly what we’re you supposed to do with she told you? If she wanted you to do or say something, she should have said instead of flouncing off. Why would she bitch about your DD like that? If your DD had made hers feel bad, she should have asked you to have a word, not act like she (and not her DD) is the one who has been hurt by it. As for you not supporting her, it sounds like you do nothing but support her! In all honesty, I’d be really busy from now on and I definitely don’t think you should confide anything in her going forward, she clearly can’t be trusted.

DangerEgg · 29/03/2018 14:56

True, kids say all sorts don't they, we can't hear it all or raise issue with it all. The mum didn't hear all the conversations and neither did I.

My point was, was there a need to share the conversation with me (what point did it serve?) and was I wrong to defend my daughter? What was I supposed to do after the event?

I would like to know what anybody else would have said/ done?

@SeaEagleFeather Thank you, some elements of your experience struck a chord.

OP posts:
TemptressofWaikiki · 29/03/2018 15:08

I’d sack this friendship off. Far too much drama and it comes across as some one-way street. But then, I’m probably projecting, as I’ve finally done a cull among my own inner and outer circle of friends and acquaintances and realised that life has become so much calmer and less stressful without self-absorbed people. It’s part and parcel of friendships that you are there for each other during tougher times. But if you are the constant designated shoulder to cry on and merely seem to be a sounding board, then look after your own needs. I’m too long in the tooth now for other people’s never ending dramas and crises.

Thinkingofausername1 · 29/03/2018 15:11

Just become busy. It always works for me!

SeaEagleFeather · 29/03/2018 16:14

Agreed that if someone's struggling, you try to be there for them but it has to be a two way street.

But if someone goes in for a friendship-ending fury then, well, it was a -friendship ending- fury.

Hissy · 29/03/2018 16:19

I think you need to be honest with her about how her fury made you feel and say that you dont know what's for the best but that her rant at you really hurt

Hissy · 29/03/2018 16:20

but then I would leave it there, give everyone one chance, then that's it

Timeforabiscuit · 29/03/2018 16:31

As a listener, its bloody draining being a support to someone and then to cap it all they unleash all their pent up frustration on you.

You are not a counsellor, you arent a professional for her, and clearly a friendly listening ear is not enough and shouldnt be a substitute for actual support.

I think if you want to continue the friendship you'll need boundaries of steel about which topics you're happy to talk about and rebuttals prepared for ones that you don't.

Adora10 · 29/03/2018 16:39

I agree OP you should stick up for your child but it just sounds like she's lashing out because she's finding it hard to actually cope with her life at the moment. At the end of the day only you know if she's worth keeping, it just doesn't sound like what happened warrants ending a friendship over and for me, I've had periods where I've had to listen to my friends go on and on but equally when I've had a shit time, they'd have to listen to me too, it can't always be sweetness and light, sometimes you have to listen, again and again, it all depends how much you value them as a person really.

HollowTalk · 29/03/2018 16:39

My friend and her partner just looked embarrassed and muttering to each other about how humiliating their children were and each telling the other to deal with it or shouting at them

They both sound completely useless, to be honest.

Davespecifico · 29/03/2018 16:44

If you enjoy her company and get something from it, make the effort.

If you don’t, then great, her kick off has helped you see the light, distance yourself slowly and move on.

Bluntness100 · 29/03/2018 16:49

I'd also have assumed she is really struggling, and that your daughter behaving emphasised her daughter not behaving. It wasn't like she said she thought these things about uour daughter, her daughter did and in the context of this little girl has problems.

I'm the first to defend my own daughter but in this instance I would have said something like kids friendships are fragile and kids can be mean to each other and shrugged it off.

Why? Because I suspect there is an element of this conversation uou don't know. For example your friend was very likely saying to her why can't you behave like x, did you see how she sat quietly and was polite etc and rhe little girl retaliated.

In addition the mother may feel envious and want you to share a little of the pain she's feeling by knocking down your daughter. Petty but human. Who knows. The only thing we do know is that when people are unhappy and under strain they behave in ways that are not like themselves.

SeaEagleFeather · 29/03/2018 17:21

True, blunt. Guess it depends on how bad the fury explosion was, and how solid, and two-way, the friendship is otherwise.

Even if it's recoverable, I can't imagine it ever being quite the same though

DangerEgg · 29/03/2018 18:50

These comments are very helpful, some food for thought.

I think I'll take a step back and not be her counsellor on tap. Friendship bruised but not broken. I will at some stage say her fury at me was very hurtful.

@Bluntness I think some of this is true too, thank you.

I am glad I posted, its good to step outside and look in from a different direction.

OP posts:
Whocansay · 29/03/2018 19:52

I would have been supportive of your friend right up until she started making snide comments about your child. I wouldn't be able to be friends with her after that. She may be struggling, but she had no right to start on your child.

And be aware that she may have been putting her own words into her daughter's mouth, when she said that.

If you aren't comfortable at the moment, keep your distance. If you don't want to continue the friendship, you can phase her out. If you want to keep the friendship, I think you have to talk about this or it will fester.

Dappledsunlight · 29/03/2018 23:19

I think it sounds like your friend is struggling with a heck of a lot of anxiety around her daughter's behaviour and, more to the point, how SHE is coping with ambivalent feelings about her daughter. I think for this reason, she is trying to offload some of this anxiety onto you by suggesting your own daughter's behaviour might be less than perfect as if she feels she wants to give you some of her problem. Maybe she envies you your relationship with your daughter and this enrages her. Maybe her daughter did make this comment about your daughter but really the issue is about her intense anxiety about her relationship with her own daughter. In fact, if she behaves this way maybe it indicates how she might be behaving towards her daughter at home and hence the difficulties she's experiencing.

Gemini69 · 29/03/2018 23:32

tell her to PISS OFF..... in capital letters...

and keep walking Flowers

HazelBite · 30/03/2018 09:47

This is a very interesting thread and the different views and opinions.
I think Bluntness has made a very good point and the OP 's friend is (to me) struggling with what she realises is inefectual parenting.
She feels a failure as she can't cope and has lashed out at the OP, but then we all often do that we!
The Op's friend might not be getting much support in all this from her DH and wider family, who knows, and feels totally overwhelmed.
Thing is the OP can only offer a listening ear no more really and if at the moment she is finding it hard should distance herself for a while, definitely no more meals out!
I think the Op should just be making sympathetic noises to her friend for the moment, if things get too bad for the friend she will have to seek professional help, whether the behaviour turns out to be just a "hormone surge" or a more serious issue. The OP can really be of no practical help to her.
Op you are hurt, understand the difficulties your friend is experiencing, but she should not have taken her anxieties/mood out on you and it is not your problem.
Friendly but distant is the way to go (I think)
Good luck op and yes do not confide in her.

Gemini69 · 30/03/2018 17:34

I wouldn't allow anyone to run my daughter down, regardless of the circumstances.. you sound like a lovely person OP.. good luck Flowers

christmastreewithhairyfairy · 30/03/2018 17:59

I can see both sides here.
On one hand I really sympathise with your friend as her situation sounds very like my own (in fact until you said her dd's age I worried it was me! It's not though Smile). Knowing a child has problems and you are failing to deal with them is insanely stressful and that is clearly coming out. She will be oversensitive and defensive to any perceived slight, even if none is meant.

BUT... I have managed never to actually shout at a friend and certainly not to say anything bad about their dc - that is out of order and she does owe you an apology.

As some sensible posters have said, you and especially strangers on the internet can't decide based on just one incident whether to end a friendship. Only you know if she is generally supportive or always an emotional vampire.

I've found a certain element on MN will always advise you to walk away from a friend/mother/dh after just one irritation or row. If I followed that advice i'd have no one left Wink