Goady ex and money - would love to hear how other people sort this...

[GloriousDolores]

I'm not sure if relationships is strictly the right place for this but I know many people are in the samesituation. I've posted something similar before and found it helpful then.

Can anybody point me to information about what child support is actually for and what it's supposed to be spent on? I could do with something definitive and official to show my ex. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're supposed to do with it yourself.

Ex pays the amount worked out with the CSA calculator, based on somebody who earns about 10k less than him. This agreement was reached a couple of years ago when he was paying about half this amount but tried to reduce it. I used the CSA calculator to show him what he should be doing and this compromise was reached.

I would love to tell him to shove it entirely but TBH I need his contribution.

He has DD 2.5 days a week but these days are never the same two weeks running because his work is irregular. I'm self employed so I've always worked when she isn't at home. I find it hard to juggle it and earn the equivalent of a full-time wage. If I try and enforce regular access for more structure, I get told I am blocking their relationship. If I work when I need to, it's more often than not, the opposite of what he is doing, so DD never sees me.

Anyway, now ex is questioning what his contribution should be spent, and what he should do outside that, and I am looking for guidelines, something official as I find I don't really know for sure myself.

He wants a breakdown of what DD costs and how this equates to his payment and an equal contribution from me.

Ex feels he shouldn't pay the agreed amount now because we now live with my DP who shares our living costs. Is this right?
DP does share living costs, but we live in an expensive area. He's not a high earner himself and has a new business, but is very supportive when it comes to DD. When I can't afford the next term's dance classes for example, he pays. We're certainly not living the life of riley off DD's child support money.

• Should ex pay for childcare costs which are a result of his work hours?

-I am moving into an office so I can work more regular hours and hopefully earn more. I'll still pick up DD two nights a week and pay for one night's after school. Ex has always wanted to pick her up x2. I've suggested the times he can't do this and it's late notice, he should pay for afterschool but he says he already does with his CS.

The same for holidays. Ex wants half holidays, but only the days he is off work. I have said that now I need to work too and the days neither of us can be at home with DD, we should split for a holiday club which she loves to go to. Again, he won't as he says CS covers this.

• The next issue is clothes. I spend a lot of time packing and unpacking bags of screwed up dirty clothes. For school, activitives and over nights with Ex. Ex has expressed dissatisfaction with the reliability of my packing. I've given him bags of DD clothes to keep at his but they always end up back here. My solution is for him to purchase some nice but cheap clothes to keep there. He won't because he 'already buys her clothes' through CS. I'm sure some non-resident P's do this? I know of some.

I've given up arguing about it and have ignored his calls. This is the man who if he happens to have DD on a night she does swimming, makes sure he gets the £3.50 off me when he drops her off and doesn't think that's just a bit...well...tight.

I'd love some general knowledge about the issue so I can just state facts.

Oh Golly. That sounds a nightmare. No, he has no right to demand to know the ins and outs of your budget/finances. And it doesn't matter what you spend the money on, frankly. It is to care for his daughter.

I am assuming that this is a private arrangement between you and my best advice would be to get an official amount agreed by the Child Support Agency. I imagine he will be forced to pay more than he is doing, and will find that the reasonable extra costs of childcare will also need to be split.

Good luck. (I would be tempted to ask him in slightly bemused tones why your boyfriend should be paying to keep another bloke's child? I mean - would ex not be thoroughly ashamed if this was the case?.)

I would go to the child maitenance people. Then its no more haggling.
He can provide everything needed at his himself.

Stop bloody giving him the swimming money! Or anything else! Go through legal channels where he has to provide payslips and do this properly. Childminder is extra, not part of cm as far as I know. If he takes her somewhere, he pays, not you.

I’m sure someone with proper advice will be along soon, but your ex has no right to query what you’re spending money on. He does not need a breakdown of how much gas/electric she uses and he’s just being a controlling twat. Don’t allow it!

I'd go through CSA or whatever they're called now. Men like him will never understand that their child maintenance is for helping with the general cost of raising kids. Their food, their home, the gas and electricity as well as the more tangible stuff. They seem to see it as pocket money almost, to be spent directly on the kids.

Yep just you via CMS hopefully you can evidence and count up how many nights in the last 12 months she's been with her Dad.

It's a contribution to everything a room, food, clothing, hobbies. If childcare is needed on his days it's his cost...

Oh my god where to start!! I’m in shock that he wants a breakdown of how much his daughter costs as though she’s a pet or something!

Firstly he needs to be told it’s a legal obligation that he pays for his daughter, secondly if he is going to try negotiate Child maintenance then you will go directly to Child maintenance who will take it straight from his wage. He needs to pay what the calculator says and that’s it really, it’s the law!
It also doesn’t matter if you now have a partner, that’s totally irrelevant, his maintenance doesn’t need to reduce at all.
Stop arranging your life and work around him!!! It’s not your problem, it stopped being your problem when you split up. Suggest days, tell him she needs structure and the same routine every week not being passed around on random days and if he has a problem to arrange court mediation. Please stop letting him rule your life and when your able to work. He’s got me so angry and I don’t even know him.
Send a bag of clothes and when he tries to pass them back to you don’t let him say no they are for your house, he probably just can’t be arsed to wash them.

I'd go the official route and get him to stick to agreed days (plus pay what he should be paying). And ignore all his other carp. I'd also not put any clothes for your dd and let him buy, dress and launder the clothes he wants. WhAt an entitled arrogant wanker.

Stop debating it with him, go to CMS and do it through them.

Thanks for the replies. The thing with going to CMS is; firstly, he is self employed and I'm pretty sure he could suddenly start earning less. He has basically said as much. He has also pointed out lots of times, if I started working more, he would work less and pick DD up more. And I would have to pay him. It just always ends up a mess and I do worry that I would lose time with DD and barely see her.

That's why I've decided to take matter in to my own hands now and start insisting about my work hours. Because I realise my life revolves around his too much. He thinks that suggestion is outrageous of course.

I'm actually quite surprised I've had this much support so far, I really was beginning to question whether the money should be going into the general pot. which it does really, it has to.

He has hinted I am remiss for not having a savings account for her like he does. But I couldn't, everything is just too expensive, there is no spare money.

And I tend to move things around to let her do stuff, she loves the holiday club and as she's an only child, rather than have a week at home with adults, I find the money to let her go for a day or two. His attitude is that he would rather work from home that day so he doesn't get asked to contribute. He says she can't have everything she wants.

Also, even if CMS did make him pay a little more, it wouldn't cover the extra childcare costs.

I have given the swimming money, not to bow down to him but at the same time as saying 'are you really being this pathetic, fine, take it, don't spend it all at once.' Maybe it's not as devil-may-care as I thought.

Would CMS state that extra childcare costs are not included?

I'd think about getting a proper agreement - talk to a family law solicitor or something - you need to have a proper contact agreement. You shouldn't be at his mercy for him to have your dd whenever he feels like it, that's not how it works. Go to mediation or the courts.

I went through the maintenance service, they'll work out what he has to pay based on his wage and how often he has DC overnight.

He can either agree to pay the amount they set directly to you, cutting out any further input from CMS, or if he is being difficult they can take the payment directly from his wage. However, if they take it from him it incurs a 4% deduction from the amount you get (admin fee) and a 20% additional charge to him (so in his best interests to pay informally).

They won't take your partners earnings into account. They will reduce your ex's payment if he has any other children residing with him (either his own or step children)

It's so much easier to just go through the CMS.

Thanks

Lucie8881 Does CMS say anything about childcare used during your ex's time?

I've had advice before that because of his work I can't enforce days too striclty, I have to let him tell me what days he can do to some extent.
So basically this means during the holidays for example, he tells me what days he can do and so for the remainder it's up to me. If I want him to contribute to childcare, he'll work less and want her to live with him. Or so he says.

He is playing you like a fiddle.

Go to the CMS. He's not going to cut his hours. His historic income is there for courts to see. They aren't as easily fooled as you think.

Tell him what the fixed schedule is for his days / your days. It is in the best interests of your child. He pays all costs for his days, which might have to include childcare / babysitter. For school holidays those days get split between you, if that means you each have a couple of awkward days well that means each of you sorts out some childcare for your own days and pays for it.

Stop doing his washing, which means stop sending stuff with DD, she goes with the clothes on her back and maybe a book and teddy, there should be no "packing" done by you. She will have PJs, toothbrush, pants etc all at her dad's.

Oh and stop listening to him whine on like a whiny whiner. He's a dick. That's why you divorced him, right? So if he tries to scam you out of swimming money, roll your eyes and slam the door, don't engage with the shite he says.

Btw that £3.50 sounds like pure power play to me. He doesn't need the money. I reckon he likes being able to manipulate you into handing it over. Power. Power. Power. Obey me woman. I am man. I use mean words and you scrabble give me £3.50 instead of the finger.

He's full of shit. How much actual parenting does he do and has he ever done?

Let him take you to court.

Check with a solicitor again now you are working too.

Ok, I think this is what I needed to stop looking for 'facts' in an attempt to make him be reasonable and to just woman up and he can like it or lump it and see what he does then.
I've always thought it's better to make things run smoothly for DD but honestly, the way we do things is only really good for him

Im sorry but he’s taking you for a total ride. If you decide to work more hours that does not mean your daughter should or would even want to go live with him!! That’s like saying if my ex suddenly became unemployed while I worked full time then my kids would go live with him that’s acyually laughable. He’s even controlling how much money you can earn!!

I agree with other posters. Have set days and if your working on those days that you have her (like most working mums are) then arrange childcare. If he’s working on days she’s with him he has to arrange childcare too. This is the way it is for most people, including me. Don’t let him control you, get a solicitor, you can usually get a free half hour session for advice.

You're trying to use reason and logic with an unreasonable man. No wonder you're tied up in knots.

The 3.50 for swimming seems like such a power play - its such a petty thing for you to pay when it's his time with DD.

I don't have an issue with arranging childcare for the days that I have her, but I have found when I do that, because his days are always so irregular, often I'll have booked a job, he can't have her those days so I arrange childcare, but then the other days are his days so I hardly see her. It isn't the only reason I haven't worked full time, but it's a draw-back.

He is full of shit.
Go to CMS and get that sorted. He won't reduce his hours because he will have less income to spend on himself.
Rinse and repeat - the CMS money pays for a fraction of our child's costs.

As for she will go and live with him. Who says, him? Is this the best for her? Or is it best for her to remain with you? There's your answer to this question.

Children need a routine and structure. Email or text him and ask him what regular days he would like access. If he tries calling, don't answer. All communication in email/text. You aren't blocking access you are trying to find a solution for your child.

You could live with Prince bloody Charles, still doesn't negate him from providing financially for his child. He's a bloody idiot if he believes this. Yes, your partner takes her on as part of your unit, but it isn't down to him to provide for her. If that's the case, then he might as well adopt her

Childcare is tricky, have you seen if you can get some contribution through tax credits? Trying to get him to pay isn't something I have come across before. But there will be others who can better advise on this.

Clothing, toothbrush, toys etc, he should have some at his house for her anyway. Doesn't matter how much he pays, it's something he should do to help make his place also feel like her home.

So in short, go to CMS and get some legal advice. Chances are anyway he's blowing hot air because he sees this as a way to control you. If he wants a break down of expenses he can take you to court and let the judge laugh at him. However, if you do end up taking the legal route, unfortunately, the courts aren't concerned about how much or little he provides.

Is there anyone who you could get to do the handovers? This way you don't have to deal with him and his misery ways.

Don’t believe him when he says the more you earn, the less he pays. You could earn a £1m per week and he would still be expected to pay towards the cost of caring for his child.

Do you work weekends? If not you could organise the days so he has her 2.5 days at the back end of the week including Saturday then she comes home to you Saturday night so you get quality time on a Sunday.
If he’s willing/has the power to work less if you decide to work more then surely he has the power to have set days off every week. He’s being awkward just to control you.
Just tell him how it is and if he refuses he can organise court can’t he. I bet it wouldn’t get that far anyway.

I don't think the CMS take into account childcare costs, but I could be wrong on that (it wasn't an issue for me).

They do go through the tax office and use his earnings from the previous financial year to calculate payment. So even if he does try and make it look like he's not earning as much that won't take effect for a while, even if he disputes it it'll take time to sort.

He’s taking the piss. They look at his tax returns and he can’t just fiddle that or the tax man would have him! You can go to prison for that. Go the official route. You can’t carry on living like this. He’s a control freak. Go speak to a solicitor and speak to CMS and don’t give him swimming money or a breakdown. None of that is his right. He’s playing on your fears. Play him back by getting yourself good legal advice. Google family solicitors in your area and go see one