Seems minor, but I have had enough of it

[Nuffaluff]

I am fed up of an issue in my marriage to the point that I feel if this doesn't get sorted, I won't be able to stick it out long term. I wonder if any of you have experience of this?
Background - I'm 40, he's 41 -together for 20 years, married for 13 years. Two kids 7 and 3. We both work, him full time and me part time as a teacher.

It sounds so minor, when I write it down, but it's just that he says mean things and then denies having done so.
Tonight is a typical example.
Just got through the door at 8.45 after being at work for 13 hours with one five minute break (full day's teaching plus parents evening). DH has the ready meal in the oven. He never cooks normally.
I go up to get changed quickly and chat to DS 1 who is still awake. He gets upset about something due to a minor misunderstanding and starts acting up ( he can be quite highly strung at times).
DH tells me to come down for my dinner. I say, yes, I'm just seeing to DS, he's upset. DH tells me to leave him and come down now, or it'll burn. Said in a bossy, rude manner but I let it go and come down.
Sitting talking about minor incident with DS to DH. I say, I don't like to see him upset, that's why I wanted to sort him out. DH says, yeah all right. Said in a rude, dismissive way as if to actually mean 'please shut up you idiot'.
OK, so far so typical? Honestly not sure. I don't like this bickering, we do it too much.
The thing that really bothers me though is that when I say 'please don't speak to me like that, I don't like it', he immediately denies having said anything that I could possibly be upset about. He says this with such complete conviction and suggests that I am a crazy woman. When I repeat back to him what he has just said, he says I'm making it up!
He is level headed generally, reliable and a good partner in many ways, but he always does THIS. He seems to think I'm irrational and I really am not. I just want to be treated with respect, like he does everyone else in his life.
As I said in the title, it seems minor, but it bothers me a lot. I know it is minor compared to what a lot of women have going on, but really, I have had enough of it after 20 years.
Any advice? How can I deal with this?
Please don't tell me YABU, because I haven't put this in AIBU.

my relationship is weird
Wow, he’s not wonderful and loving 95% of the time. The fact you left your partner gives me pause for thought.
Isn’t a marriage supposed to be hard work though?

Can you see how, as soon as you bring it up in a way that cannot, in any way, be construed as confrontational, he reacts by being upset and feeling attacked? So when he can't deny or deflect, he is the victim.

When he comes back he'll expect an apology for you attacking him and will have trained you not to confront him again.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I've had a similar experience and my marriage became worse the more I questioned the way I was treated.

Oh Nuff that sounds really shit. In that sort of ceaselessly eroding sort of way.

No real advice, but it sounds like he really doesn't actually like you much any more.

Google the four horsemen of the relationship apocalypse. I think it will really resonate with you.

I don't think you are being gaslighted particularly - sometimes I think that is overused - of course people deny they did/said something in a particular way - two people often see something very differently when arguing. But again, maybe you are.

But I think the most important thing is he treats you with contempt

DH says, yeah all right. Said in a rude, dismissive way as if to actually mean 'please shut up you idiot'.

We are married 25 years and have had some humdingers of arguments. We have never spoken to each other with contempt. It isn't nice and it isn't normal and it isn't good enough. if one of us got upset in an argument, the other is also upset and cares.

Your children are also taking their blueprint of marriage from your relationship. I don't care if you say they never hear him talk like this to you - they really do. Your son heard him yell up the stairs to you tonight in a bossy and rude manner. He heard his dad yell out that it was more important that you come down when he said than his own needs were met. We can get heartily sick of our children's needs at times (teens) but if I yelled down to dh "am dealing with ds will be down in a minute' his reaction would be to shout up "do you want me to come up" or he would just come up to see if he could help.

Maybe there are enough good bits to make this worth salvaging but I think you do have a problem here.

What was your parents' relationship like? What was his parents' relationship like?

Ffs, a ready meal is 3 minutes in theicrowave, but he's turning the prep into a big drama. He could have just taken it out if the oven, if it was done.

Isn’t a marriage supposed to be hard work though?

Frankly. No. Maybe at times but not all the time. Children can make a marriage hard work for a while but basically a marriage should be kind, fun, a source of comfort and love and mutual support. If it isn't well what is better than being on your own??

Seriously take a look at this

psychcentral.com/blog/predicting-divorce-the-four-horsemen-of-the-apocalpyse/

isn't a marriage supposed to be hard work?

Ermmm, no, not really. They can have their ups and downs but generally speaking married life should be pretty easy. You should be a team, equal partners. My husband and I have been together 9 years, married for 7. We have a 6 year old daughter. He has never once spoken to me in any way like your husband speaks to you. We rarely even argue. We support each other and work together through anything that needs working through.

Your husband is gaslighting you. You may not be able to see it yet but he is. These 'minor' annoyances you have begun to feel are really not so minor. How dare he speak to you like that, when he is so perfectly capable of treating everyone else in his life with dignity and respect?! It's a death by a thousand cuts, slowly chipping away at you over the years so that you barely notice. Like a frog in a pan of water slowly brought to the boil. Please believe us when we say that this is not how a marriage should be.

Just read to end of thread then back to the original OP Nuffaluff
That really wasn't a nice welcome home for you at all, after working for 13hours.

No! Hi love, how was your day.
No! Get changed quick and I'll have the meal on the table for you.
No! Sorry I shouted up to you like that but I was worried the meal might burn.
So, tell me what was Ds1 upset about.
He was snappy and rude and then denied it.
Next time and every time, he talks to you in a disrespectful way, pull him up on it immediately. Tell him that you are just, not, having it!
Speak to me nicely or don't bother speaking at all.
But, whatever you do, do not put up with it!

Tell him you will need to put nanny cams all around the house as he clearly doesn't know that he is doing these things and you need to show him. I'm sure he will stop or at least stop denying it.

No, marriage should definitely not be hard work.

When it’s with a nice person? Sure, it’s work, but most things are because you’ll always need to work together due to outside influences. But hard work? No, never. It’s only ever hard work when one partner is an absolute shit.

I would have challenged him telling me to come down to eat. I would have just asked him to put it in a low oven and told him I would eat it after I had spoken to DS. Perhaps different if he had been slaving over a culinary masterpiece, but he was just heating a ready meal.When you commented about DS being upset, do you think your DH took it as some kind of criticism of his parenting?

It isn’t minor, and it isn’t normal.

I notice you are quick to share the blame - I don’t like this bickering, we do it too much - but in fact your DH has attacked you verbally twice before you reach this point. So you aren’t bickering, you are just trying to defend your perfectly reasonable actions (after a VERY long day).

When you assert yourself and ask not to be spoken to like that, instead of an apology, you get gaslighted.

That’s just one exchange. :( Elsewhere you describe discounting and countering, very wearing experiences which are considered abusive if they are done repeatedly and deliberately. It’s something I have experienced: it is both undermining and tremendously irritating to deal with. And it’s being done to you because it is undermining. There is not a genuine wish to explore the topic, but to make you wrong.

Finally, yes, a loving partner certainly should want you to be happy and should care if you are upset. But your DH doesn’t care, does he. You are there to support him, in his mind, not have needs yourself. I would guess that he simply gets irritated when you are upset. Hence stalking out for a walk.

Hi Op. I feel so sad and angry on your behalf. Your husband is treating you with utter contempt. The fact that he respects others makes it worse as he should be able to treat you with respect also but chooses not to.

You keep repeating something along the lines of he doesn't seem to like you much. That's because he doesn't like you.

As happens in a lot of cases like this, your self esteem is suffering and you seem to almost blame yourself that he doesn't like and respect you. You say he is not being deliberately deceitful. He has gaslighted you to the extent that you cannot see his behaviour for what it is. Gaslighting.

You are worthy of being liked and respected. You are tying yourself up in knots trying to understand his behaviour. This is very standard in these sorts of manipulative relationships. He withholds affection from you. This is abusive.

My marriage is breaking down as a result of my husband's inability to respect me. He belittles me. Dismisses me. I can't change him but I am now standing up for myself because I know I am worthy of respect.

My health has been affected due to living with my husband's behaviour for over a decade. I would tell anyone in a relationship like yours or mine to value your health if nothing else. To prioritise your health. I'm sure you would want to stay alive and well for as long as you can for your children. And of course for your own sake.

You need to WANT better for yourself OP. Please don't let life pass you by.

Simply put, it does sound like he doesn’t like you. He doesn’t respond in a caring way when you’re hurt or upset because he doesn’t care. He’s irritated by your feelings, rather than feeling any empathy or understanding. You just want him to care - he’s not going to. Not unless he can fundamentally change the way he currently feels about you.

you're gaslighting yourself
This worries me. Instead of being concerned about his behaviour and trying to understand what he has done wrong he is turning it on you.

A good idea to see if someone is emotionally abusive is to let them know they are upsetting you. If it's ignored or twisted or you can't ever seem to have a conversation that's where it's clear there's a problem.

It defo sounds like gaslighting to me and the fact he accuses you of lying and being irrational/crazy etc says it all. Well and truly if you can't live with this then perhaps splitting up may be the best course of action? if you don't want to do that I suggest counselling but by the sound of your husband's behaviour he seems like a disrespectful arsehole and if he still denies or refuses to see how his behaviour upsets you he doesn't seem worth the trouble! you were concerned about your son but he was more interested in dinner "before it burned" erm you can turn the oven down so it keep food warm

I HAVE THIS!!!!!!!!! I think.

Feel the same as you, can I live my life this way forever? He is like a time bomb, suddenly just flips, raises his voice, talks to me in a manner like he can't stand me if annoyed, when I raise it with him he genuinely doesn't think he's doing it or anything wrong : 'I'm not yelling!!!' At the top of his voice....

The constant bickering and yelling is so not me and getting to the point it makes me feel sick and so anxious afterwards.

Anyways no advice but I feel how you feel.

Heck OP, this isn’t minor, it’s bloody awful! I couldn’t live with someone like that. You really have to find your inner assertive you and stand up to this man. Either things have to change or you split up. 💐

This sounds horrible, and a marriage shouldn't be this hard work. Something bad is happening here.

When I was reading it, I thought 'he doesn't like you'. You said that too. He doesn't like you and has decided that it's ok to punish you for being around him when he doesn't want you to be. He picks on you, bullies you, lies to you, starts fights. Sounds triumphant when he wins or upsets you.

This is deeply unhealthy, and must be miserable for you. I think you should make plans to leave. Suss out your financial situation, ducks in a row etc, half hour with a solicitor etc. Then give him one chance, explain you can't continue like this, couples counselling or break up? And if he doesn't come good, really do leave. You are worth more than this, and it's a terrible model for your kids to see.

Yes I have exactly this. Everyone says how lovely my DH is but he can say some really hurtful things to me. I used to think he might be right but now I stand up for myself and feel better for it. I say: I don't need a lecture. He has very different opinions to me which is fine by me but won't accept I don't agree with him. I lose interest at that point and will wander off. I think the trick is to have confidence in yourself.

Hi OP, I am a long time lurker on MN.I could’ve written your post ....sounds familiar , in my DH ‘s case it turned out to be adult ADHD . DH drives me up the wall and I very often feel exhausted with trying to communicate with him..its like we speak a different language!
No one else finds it difficult to get what I mean or misinterpret it in an unimaginably maddening way as he does.To the outside world he’s a charming, smiley, fun guy.My mum likes him a lot!

My head reels at some really hurtful things he has said to me over the years , denies he ever ‘ meant ‘ them in a hurtful or spiteful way, when actually there could’ve been no other interpretation for an average person listening to those words. Now I understand that becauseof the inattention he forgets what he has said and makes up things to cover that or fill in the gaps , he says not to take it personally, but its bloody hard, feel ground down.I cannot have a conversation with him that doesnt end up in me feeling upset / seething in frustrationetc, he constantly talks over me and is rude .

Don’t stay for the next 10 years putting up with this. All you’ll be doing is teaching your children that this is how marriage is...

I know you’ve been together a long time and have two small children, it’s hard to leave without ‘A’ reason, but feeling unhappy and like you’d like to bury them under the bloody patio IS a reason.

MrsMama. Just because he has ADHD doesn’t mean you’re compelled to stay with him 💐

Contempt isn't a good sign in a relationship. My suggestion is this, you go the other way. You 'love bomb' him. You show him that he's the most amazing man, you respect him, you think he's the bees knees. Just for a week or two. See if it turns things around -
You can't demand someone's respect but you can model respectful behaviour and hope they mirror it back to you.