He says he will never forgive me

[Pickapart]

This is probably going to be quite long. I'm asking for advice as I don't have any close friends I can talk to and I don't have a great relationship with my mum.

DH and I met 13 years ago, we have been married 12 years and have a 4 year old DS. During the first year of our relationship (before marriage) I didn't treat DH well very well. I remained friends with my ex partner of 9 years (the relationship ended 4 years before I met my DH) and I would still speak with him or have a drink with him from time to time, there was absolutely nothing romantic in it and neither of us had those feelings for each other any more. I used to talk (a lot) about what a cool/ great guy he was to my now DH, he was in truth a selfish dick but I really didn't want my lovely and very confident DH to think I was a weak, low esteem doormat who had spent 9 years of her life with a person who in all honesty wasn't good enough even on his best day. Obviously this hurt and upset DH and DH obviously couldn't stand him even though they hadn't met. One day we in a were in a pub together and ex walked in with his friends - I panicked and instead of ignoring him I walked over to say hello and left DH standing alone at the bar. It was a shitty thing for me to do and I did it because I was afraid of a confrontation - I was weak and selfish and I did it to save my feelings rather than think about DH's. To put everything in context XP's sister was also my best friend (since years before XP and I got together) and I was very close to the family. Obviously we had a huge row about what happened, I never really apologised.

DH and I were emigrating overseas and having a leaving party - he expressly asked me not to invite my best friend or her mum (of course XP wasn't invited) as it was about us and not the past. Both of them turned up at the party and it was awful. Another huge row and I didn't really apologise.

We emigrated, married and settled overseas. I cut off all of XP's family. Many huge rows over the years during which I apologised, but the apologies weren't great, I'm not a good communicator really and find feelings really hard to express. (Previous abusive relationship before XP and abandonment issues from parents marriage breakup when little). DH struggled for years with feeling I betrayed him at the beginning when he was giving everything and I was holding back, I wouldn't let go of the past and my friends because I was scared and didn't fully trust him yet. He went onto antidepressants for 6 years and has told me that this was a major contributing factor to his anxiety. He was vengeful for a couple of years post marriage and treated me poorly at times. There was never any infidelity on either side.
I finally gave him a full and frank apology with the true reasons for my behaviour (selfishness, fear, weakness) 10 years later during another Massive fight about it. He said he could forgive now he had a real apology
We had a row a couple of nights ago about sex of all things, he feels he initiates most of the time which he does. I blew it out of proportion and said he was saying I was crap and boring in bed etc, we went to bed on the row and next morning he text to say let's move on and not fight and I sent him a scathing text back saying he couldn't take back what he'd said and I'd never feel the same, we should never have married etc - I know, I'm a dick :( . We had another huge row when he got in and it transpires that he can never forgive that first year and I'll just have to live with it, he says no man could forgive that. He says he has resigned himself to the fact that we are human and not perfect and we have to live with each other's failings ( mine are many I know) and we both have the marriage we deserve. I asked him why he doesn't leave - he's still young enough to meet another and have a great marriage and more kids ( which we wanted but I'm to old now). He said he loves me and he doesn't want a blended family, he's 38 and this is his lot in life, we have to suck it up.

95% of the time we have a great time! I love him, he loves me and we have a nice life together. I don't want to leave him. But this has permeated or marriage from the start. I should have apologised sooner I know, he was hurting and I did nothing to stop that. But if he won't forgive me how can we ever move on - how can I ever be anyone but that person who walked over to her ex and left him standing. I hate the thought he has 'settled' for a marriage instead of being happy. I don't know what to do.

OP, whose idea was it to emigrate? How is your dh now when you see friends? Does he try to stop you socialising with others?
What you describe is nothing at all. You have no reason on earth to live a life time of guilt! You spoke to someone at a bar for goodness sake!! It's ridiculous that he's holding that over you all these years later!

People are obsessed with abuse on MN. There is nothing abusive here. It is a complex situation in which the OP’s husband felt her best friend was connected to her ex, whom she remained uncomfortably close to in the early years of her relationship.

OP, I think your husband has a choice here, move on wholeheartedly and stop holding grudges about the past. It was a long time ago in a far away place! Otherwise, you do need to split up. He cannot feel he has one over on you forever.

You both need to deal with arguments better, for your own and your child’s sake. I have limited sympathy with people who claim to be ‘bad at communicating’. This is an area that it is easy to make an effort to improve. If you care about your relationship (both of) you need to work on this.

Counselling could help if you are both open to the idea.

Why why why do you think you have done something that he needs to forgive?

I’ve read your post 3 times and I cannot see why you think you did wrong.
People stay friends with ex’s it’s not wrong nor is it a reason to routinely use it as a wounder in a row

Oh the drama!

Well, you said you'd never feel the same about sex with him again (or about him again??!), so it's tit for tat, really, isn't it? Except you are worried that maybe you forced him to say what he actually feels and you were just making shit up. You definitely sound like an exceptionally poor communicator, probably your dh is, too - you both, after all, sound like you have low self esteem, which does not help with healthy communication - so I would say marriage counselling would be a good idea, to see if you can both stop the undermining, toxic communication which won't go away and which explodes in both your faces twice a year.

And no, your dh should not keep harking back to the beginning of your relationship.

As a couple counsellor I say definitely go for couple counselling. It’s an ideal way for you both to understand yourselves and each other better, and nothing you’ve written about is unworkable.

He sounds awful; you sound exhausted.

He's emotionally abusive. You'll never be happy with this twat. He likes you on the back foot.

I'd advise you to start looking at ways to free yourself.

I really don’t like the sound of this bloke. You may not have covered yourself in glory but you really didn’t do anything that was that bad at all! He’s still making you ‘pay’ YEARS later? Why the fuck did he marry you if he couldn’t get past this?! And cutting you off from people? It’s a nope from me. Get on a plane op.

He's held this over your head for how many years??

Don't apologise again. He lets it go or you move on.

And don't have counselling with him - go separately.

This is absolutely ridiculous!!!

The one thing I was always told is that if you forgive someone, you don't bring it back up and throw it in their face.

He's controlling you, X years later and you argue about sex, and he brings it back to this?

What else? You argue about who set the table? And boom your ex is bought into conversation?

He can't always use this as his way to win every argument!!!

How is he isolating and cutting her off from people?? I'm pretty sure they would have made the decision to emigrate together, he's not stopping her from making friends or keeping in touch with ppl back home, unless I've missed a big post somewhere. The best friend not being invited to the party was understandable at the time because of the ex.
Honestly, some ppl don't half like to make up stuff!

What an arse you have married.

It's usually a good sign if someone is mature enough to maintain a good relationship (friendly) with an ex. What exactly is it you have done to this man you married?

Is he usually petty?

It's also a very bad sign to dictate who someone can and can't be friends with.

He's got quite an over inflated sense of his own importance hasn't he?

You both sound abusive if we're flinging around accusations which MN loves.

I think you need counselling with the outcome that you need to learn to communicate better and him to forgive you.

How do people on here know it was the dh's idea to immigrate? And frankly being told continuously how wonderful an ex was would grate me too.

How about individual counselling so he can learn some techniques to build a bridge and get over it.

Just throwing in a different angle here - have you considered that maybe he isn't very good with arguments, or has a hard time saying/getting in touch with what is bothering him?

My DH can sometimes be like this, all of a sudden he is upset about something that happened yonks ago, but I know him well enough to not go into that argument but instead ask him what is really bothering him, and slowly but surely he will come around to, that he was in fact annoyed about me having done something yesterday instead, but it is easier for him to pick up an old argument because it is "safe". It means he can be angry with me without having to look at him self because he knows that whatever I did yonks ago was my fault. It isn't a very good way of doing that, of course, and it is something he is working on, but maybe yours does the same?

I have a hard time with people using the abuse word so easily. Someone who says that they prefer for someone they don't like/have an issue with, not coming to something that they have a part in doesn't sound unreasonable, and 2 arguments a year about an issue hardly sounds like an abusive relationship either. It seems to me belittling of those who are actually in a full on abusive relationship, but each to their own I guess. I think it sounds more like you have communication problems that need working on, from both sides, and that counseling or likewise would be a good way to go.

Wow! This is madness.

You are perfectly entitled to remain friends with exes and to describe them how you want. You are perfectly entitled to walk up to your ex in a bar - and you are perfectly entitled to invite your best friend and her mother to your leaving party whoever they are related to.

He says he can never forgive you? Tell him that's his problem - not yours. Your DH had no right trying to erase your past or significant people from it.

His early behaviour might be forgiven and excused as that insecurity we all sometimes feel at the start of a relationship while we're still getting to know someone and whether they can be trusted - all that could be forgiven if he had moved on - but the perpetual punishment of you for these imagined slights from years ago shows he is still harbouring a resentment and an anger about the early years of your relationship.

He needs help to recognise that this is his issue - not yours - and to understand why he acts like this.

You're right, you need to refuse to engage with him on this. Tell him that you did absolutely nothing wrong, and if anyone needs to apologise it is him for being such an arsehole about an utterly trivial incident. And walk away.

You did nothing wrong. He's absolutely ridiculous to keep bringing up the fact that you remained friends with your ex and that his sister, your close friend went to your leaving party! You didn't sleep with him etc or do anything that needed forgiving. He's using it as a stick to beat you with and keep you on your toes. How can that ahve contributed to hus depression??

So you are with your husband and you then constantly promote the excellence of your ex? And people think this is OK? (its not when men do it to women....)

You are out with your husband and you immediately leave him to go to someone else on a night out. The same person you have being promoting for ages? And people think this is OK?

Re the friend and her mum - did he know by this point that your ex was not good enough or was he still thinking about how you gave the impression you were comparing them both? Because I wouldnt want a gang of people and my emigration party whose only role in my life to that point had been part of the comparison with the ex?

You both need counselling separately and together if you want to avoid this issue cropping up every time you have an argument. You both wont back down in arguments so things need to change to stop the arguments.

This is unbelievably petty, this happened 12 years ago, you acted like a slight prat and ever since your OH has been bashing you with a stick because of what exactly, because you acted a bit of a dick, he's not exactly snow white is he, he sounds very dramatic and over the top, I think you are beating yourself up only because he's made you feel like a shit person, you really are not, you were at the beginning of the relationship, is there more to this that I have missed as it all sounds completely uncalled for.

From what I can tell you never LEFT your husband, you simply were in a bar and you walked over to speak to ex to try and avoid any nasty confrontations, nope, that does not make you the devil reincarnated either.

I think you both sound like you like feeling martyred and want to hold on to hurts to make each other feel shit with.

He’s saying he ‘can’t forgive’ again because you said it - the ‘it’ll never be the same’ drama is obviously a repeating theme. Break the cycle and apologise for hanging on to resentment but tell him you expect a line under the ex boyfriend stuff for good.

I would like to hear his point of view. He is being attacked as being abusive. There is probably more to this. Perhaps the truth has not been told somewhere, either to us or to him. My view of my wife's 'friend' changed fundamentally when she admitted that she had slept with him before we were married. I only found out after 23 years of marriage. So when I was out of the country and she's making plans to see him, the perspective changes. Or it's when a friend of her brother suddenly becomes another ex boyfriend. (Who is this guy contacting you? 'he's just a friend of my brother from school') It's not what she did before we got married, it's 23 years of lies. Once the trust is lost it's very hard to regain. Unfortunately, we will never know the truth, just what OP tells us. Just my opinion.

Do you think a woman owes a man all the details of her sex life before she met you?

If a woman slept with someone while seeing you, and especially after committing to you, that would be different.

But what difference would knowing about boyfriends or partners from school make?

Cringing at the amount of people who are saying you’re in an abusive relationship.

You’re both as bad as each other!