Abusive son

[missmartha]

I am finding this very difficult to talk about. I am ashamed and experience has imformed me that no one will believe me, though here on MN I suspect things will be different.

I am in my sixties and had my first son when I was 18, he is now 49.

He is a charming man with a decent joba nd educatuional background and peole like him. At least I think they do.

For a number a years he has bullied and verbally abused me.

This will range from putting me down in company to shouting at me, usually with no trigger that I am aware of. Shouting will often invove an prolonged and close up tirade of "You fcking bitch, you fcking cow" until I walk away, he can do this for minutes on end. . As you can imagine I find this very upsetting. I do not cry. I crumble inside but I don't cry.

His behaviour is not always entirely consistant. For instance he has demanded to know where I go on a Sunday and has sometimes flown into a rage because DH and I have eaten out with friends and not told him. Sometimes he couldn't care less what I do.

His behaviour is unstable and I cannot list the whole catalogue.

In the last two years he has had two children with his partner.

He has had many partners as women find him attract but none last. The average is about 2 years though he has ben with his present parner longer.

Ourlittle grandson who will be two next month is a great joy to us and we love spending time with him but I fear my son is starting to use him as a bargining chip.

Along the lines "you behave or you don't get to see him", he has even lifted the chid out of my arms because I would not apologise for upsetting him (upsetting my son, not my grandson).
One day this week I had my grandson ...basically he rang me, verbally assaultfriend and said he was 'coming to get him and you'll never see him again." My grandson was napping and did not witness this but I was affraid.

A friend happened by and I fell into her arms shaking and crying . She was marvellous, refused to leave me and talked me through as much as she could. Eventually me son rang to say I was lucky this time and he wouldn't be around.

Now my problem is, I know he'll come around, as nice as pie with my grandson and want to come in and for things to be as normal. In front of the child I don't know what to do. In fact I don't know what to do full stop.

My DH is a great support but my son ignores him and targets me.
I'm sorry this is long.

I don't know why you take it. You are afraid of him.
You have other sons? have they seen this ?
I would say, this is my life I can go where I want, when I want, this is a 50 year old son, he is independent, & so are you
If he uses the DC as manipulation, you are going to have to say If you don't want to bring him here, don't.
I would try & record these outbursts also

If he was your DH, everyone would tell you to LTB. No-one has the right to abuse you like this. Try to record the abuse & definitely look at a restraining order.

How do you get on with your DIL? He must be doing it to her too.

yes, agreed, I fear the DIL is living in misery

Yes, I fear my DiL is being abused too.
She did try to leave him last year and texted me to tell me.

My son said she was having a mental breakdown and he would contact the MV to let her know.

Now I know the HV is not going to be so easily convinced, but it worried me that he's done done this.

In fact I rang Women's Aid because I wanted some feedback.

Thing is he will stop us from comunicating. He has done it before.

Her mother thinks he's the bees knees btw.

The Health Visitor, not MV.

i have grown up children, so i do not say this lightly. you must tell him calmly that you will not tolerate this behaviour. you may not see him again or your grandchild and that is something that you should come to terms with.

my son had a child, a few months ago he behaved in an innapropriate manner shouting and screaming in my house. i am under the impression that he thinks he can behave inappropriately because he has a child and therefore is untouchable. i in no uncertain terms told him to leave my home and did not speak to him or contact him for months.

i do not do this lightly. i do not let strangers in the street treat me in such an appalling way, why should i let a family member - ANY famly member? it is a harsh realisation i came to many years ago with my own mother and also my in-laws. if they are fundamentally selfish and unkind people, i will limit my time with them. You must be strong and not stay in what is effectively an abusive relationship for the sake of seeing your grandchild

what you must do is ensure that your DIL is aware that you love your grandchild and that should SHE ever need anything, you will be there for her.

If he is as unstale as you suggest, there will in time come a relationship breakdown and at that point if you have forged links with DIL, you may be able to resume a relatioship with your grandchld.

Do you want to see your grandchildren?
do you a have good relationships with the mothers of the children? or is it one mother, i am not sure

you may have to ensure you have company when your son is around i feel

I would invite DIL round & see if she was all right .

Have your other DC seen this ?

If he and his wife split up, you may get to see more of the grandchildren with her if you keep a supportive relationship up. So maybe concentrate on communicating with his wife, rather than with him - as long as you don't feel this will bring his wrath down upon her head.

He is a twat of the highest order (sorry, I know he's still your son, and you may love him, but you don't have to like him). He needs telling. But if you can remove the fear of never seeing your grandchildren again, by forming a united front with your DIL, then do.

I'd be pointing both you and dil back to women's aid. Where is your dh in this? Is he your son's father? In any case why hasn't he got your back? IT should be a united front, he is not welcome in your house when he carries on like that. Get your other dc on side, support your dil. If necessary call the police. Good luck.

I am grateful for your responses.

I have on many occassions told him that I cannot tolerate his behavious. Mostly he behavies for a few months and reverts to type again.

Yes, my DH is his father. He does what he can to protect me but isn't always around. Confronting my son is a frightening thing, but what is more frightening is that people do not believe me. They like him. He's always the first one to be invited to things, to get a pat on the back.

My son tries to keep me and my DiL apart, though I did see her last week (in his company) and she was very friendly. I think supporting her and staying friends with her is a good idea.

I have sussed out the recording function on my iPhone and am going to use it.

I rang Women's Aid again last week following a verbal bashing from my son.

They were great and I am starting to battle this. It isn't easy, as one of you has said, he's my son though I don't like him. My other son keeps at arms length from his brother as does his wife. She has never seen him or heard him ranting and screaming.

He is very good at being secretive about these things.

Have you tried taking official advice ? I know you are still young (ish ) but Age UK are a good place to start with info / advice of adult child bullying. This has to stop, and you know this by coming on here. Do not allow him to carry on as it will never stop. Could you start the conversation with via telephone along the lines of this. ' Hello xxx I think you will agree that we need to sort something out. I'm sure you realise that for the past few months it has become a little difficult with us due to the pattern of communication between us . You know I love you and your family and you all are very precious to me but I can't cope with you being shouty at times . What can we do to move on ? If he puts the phone down ,leave it for a while but bring it up when you next see /speak to him.

i think it just needs to be a constant 'please leave' when he starts being abusive. and always do this. if he behave for a few months then does it again...again say 'please leave'. you don't have to shout, you just have to open the door. dont engage, don't reason, don't rationalise, don't raise your voice just say 'please leave'

its so hard when its your own child it really is xxxx be strong

Did this behaviour start suddenly or has he always been like this and it's become more extreme over the years?

Refuse to tolerate op.
be a broken record as above.
I will not tolerate, said quietly. you try and remain quiet. he is the only one shouting.

Why do you need Womens Aid op?

No advice op but wanted to send you hugs.

She's being abused Slarty-it's not just for wives and partners. And dil will probably need some help (if she can get to her)

Op your sons personality sounds disordered. I'm imagining he's been like this for a lot of his adult life. But now he has the weopon of your little gs his volatile rages are escalating. I think you have to be extremely careful and I'd actually advise stopping all contact with him. However I know how dreadfully sad it would be if you couldn't see your gs. My thoughts are that he'll most certainly be abusing his partner. Maybe they will split up eventually ...... sadly your son is an abuser and is emotionally unstable please don't put yourself at further risk. I'm also feeling quite cross on your behalf that your husband hasn't actually called his son out in this behaviour

has your relationship always been rocky?

That is good, keep recordings of these outbreaks. you will need them eventually. He is not going to like being thwarted, IMO he potentially could become violent.
You can prove you are not inventing/lying to all the people who "like" him, this is classic narcissistic abuse

Can I ask why the recordings? he is 49, he does not live at home? not to belittle the situation of course

i think recordings are a good idea - they often lie and squirm and wriggle and wrestle the truth until you dont believe your own memory of things - i say this from experience

Op can get a non mol, she would have proof of abuse, for friends & family.
Abusive people as very very clever at hiding it.
Its all very well her telling him to leave, but she is also scared of him.

To answer a few questions.

No, I don't recall his early years being difficult. He could never settle at college and attempted two degree courses eventually getting a 3rd. He went abroad to work and returned after 10 years and got a Masters. My belief is that his girlfriend at the time actually did his thesis for him.

Why Women's Aid? I'm a woman who despirately needs aid. I asked if I was at the right place the first time I rang them and was assured that I was.

And you're right, I am becoming afraid of him now. No one ever believes they could be in danger from their son or daughter. When you are it shakes your world.

And yes, I do want access to my grand children.

I've been looking after my grandson about once a week since about last summer and we have developed such a close relationship.
My grand daughter is a week old and I've met her once, I so much want the chance to get to know and love her.

Why record our conversations? Because there might come a time when I will need to demonstrate the level of his rage.
He is a charming man. People like him and trust him. It is difficult for many people to believe that he has this side to him.

That you for helping me put this in perspective.