Abusive son

[missmartha]

I am finding this very difficult to talk about. I am ashamed and experience has imformed me that no one will believe me, though here on MN I suspect things will be different.

I am in my sixties and had my first son when I was 18, he is now 49.

He is a charming man with a decent joba nd educatuional background and peole like him. At least I think they do.

For a number a years he has bullied and verbally abused me.

This will range from putting me down in company to shouting at me, usually with no trigger that I am aware of. Shouting will often invove an prolonged and close up tirade of "You fcking bitch, you fcking cow" until I walk away, he can do this for minutes on end. . As you can imagine I find this very upsetting. I do not cry. I crumble inside but I don't cry.

His behaviour is not always entirely consistant. For instance he has demanded to know where I go on a Sunday and has sometimes flown into a rage because DH and I have eaten out with friends and not told him. Sometimes he couldn't care less what I do.

His behaviour is unstable and I cannot list the whole catalogue.

In the last two years he has had two children with his partner.

He has had many partners as women find him attract but none last. The average is about 2 years though he has ben with his present parner longer.

Ourlittle grandson who will be two next month is a great joy to us and we love spending time with him but I fear my son is starting to use him as a bargining chip.

Along the lines "you behave or you don't get to see him", he has even lifted the chid out of my arms because I would not apologise for upsetting him (upsetting my son, not my grandson).
One day this week I had my grandson ...basically he rang me, verbally assaultfriend and said he was 'coming to get him and you'll never see him again." My grandson was napping and did not witness this but I was affraid.

A friend happened by and I fell into her arms shaking and crying . She was marvellous, refused to leave me and talked me through as much as she could. Eventually me son rang to say I was lucky this time and he wouldn't be around.

Now my problem is, I know he'll come around, as nice as pie with my grandson and want to come in and for things to be as normal. In front of the child I don't know what to do. In fact I don't know what to do full stop.

My DH is a great support but my son ignores him and targets me.
I'm sorry this is long.

good luck

I echo those saying to build a relationship with your DIL. You can call her when he's at work...you can always ask her if she needs anything when you pop to the shops. She'll recognise that you're a good person and if they split..you'll be able to see your grandchildren.

The fact that he wants to keep the two of you apart...is a red flag. He knows what he's doing and doesn't want you joining forces against his abuse.

I had a text from my DiL about an hour ago asking if DH and I are going to be in tomorrow morning because they would like to come over.

Now I know my son couldn't care less and anyway I don't want him near me. On the other hand I don't want to dismiss my DiL and make her feel like I don't want her either.

I gave it a lot of thought and talked to myself about it.

On balance I felt that having them them would be ok if only to stay close to DiL.

I do not want him in my house but it's a difficult balancing act.

My youngest son said he's invited them to join us for the sfternoon tea I am having with him and his wife, but they couldn't or my eldest wouldn't join in.
I don't think DiL would have texted me if she didn't feel friendly towards me so it's to keep the momentum going there more than anything.

That's a really positive thing Martha. I think I'd take a moment to get dil alone, look her in the eyes and say "you know we are always here for YOU AND THE GRANDKIDS, no matter what happens" she will either look bemused or know exactly what you mean.
I hope you all have a lovely day.

That's positive from your DIL. Keep friendly with her. Your DS is such a bully.

What does your DH have to say about it all?

It's good that you have this connection with your DIL, you will need each other's support as your son is such a bully. That's why he's trying to keep you apart.

I’m not sure if this will be any comfort to you but I was the dil in this situation. My now ex mil was always very kind to me and we built a very good relationship- mainly through letters and emails - so when I eventually did leave dh I wanted to keep in touch with her - and I still wanted dc to have as much contact with her as possible.

15 years later dc still go to Nannies every few weeks for the weekend (they live 140 miles away) and even now - I’m remarried with another child- ex mil and I still email and text each other. I consider her more my mil than my current mil! I love her dearly. Like a mum.

So whatever you do, focus on the relationship with your dil. For her and for your grandchildren.

Thanks so much for these words of encouragment. Despite not having an opportunity to get very close due to my son, DiL and I have managed to keep lines of communication open. It is encouraging isn't it?

I have no doubt that he checks her texts and he doesn't like us texting. He has told me this. He;s probably told her something similar.

If I get an opposrtunity tomorrow, and I hope there will be one, I'll have a word with her about support.

He can only bully you if you let him.If that means you won't see your grandchildren then at some point that price has to be paid.Hopefully your DIL will leave your son and you can renew your relationship with. grandchildren .
Let your son know that he will disinherited if he treats you badly.You can out him on Facebook .People really aren't that easily deceived ;they know people's dark side because the mask always slips.
I know people that think they are really well liked and have no idea that are not as popular as they believe
Don't be scared you have weapons too

I have had similar treatment from my DC. It is awful but the only thing to do is to keep yourself safe and stay well away from the abusive DC. This is very likely to lead to you not being allowed to see the DGC which is always sad for the DGM. This seems to happen a lot. If the DGM does not do what they are told the DGC are kept away. These abusers are not decent human beings. They are picking on the older people and the youngest people just to massage their own feelings of power.
As adults we have our own resources, can and have lived without the abusive DC.

What really worries me is that if these DCs are shouting and threatening their parents what are they doing to the DCs and our DGC when we are not around or home alone with the DW and DCs? I don't think they turn into the very easy going types they pretend to be. I am very worried about all DGC in these situations.

What a disgusting bully. I understand your reluctance to challenge him, but believe you need to set your boundaries unless you do not feel jt is safe to do so.

I think it is important to tell him that his behaviour last time was unacceptable and bullying and it is not acceptable to treat you like that. Explain that in future you will not allow him to continue to rant and threaten you. Next time you behave like this we will not engage and we expect you to leave the house immediately. Only say, please leave the house now.

You either do as he says or you try to set ground rules.

Whaever you do, however you appease him, he will hold your grandchildren as ransom to your behaviour. Always let the mother know you are their for him.

I think this is more common than you might think, though people tend to hide it.

You need to nip this GC bargaining chip in the bud. Tell him you don't want to see him whilst he's behaving this way, if he threats to take contact with GC away, tell him that's the way it's going to be.

I'd seek alliance with DIL, maybe you can have contact with GC through her, I'd make her an ally, for her and your own sakes. Sounds like you could support each other.

You have to have zero tolerance with DS, it's not going to get better if you pander to it for any more time, he's nearly 50.

Oh OP, I really feel for you. What an awful situation. I echo PP and say do all you can to build a relationship with you DIL, I imagine he makes her life a misery too and you could be a lifeline for each other. Is she at home whilst he works? Could you go to see her when hes not around and tell her that you are there for her, see if she opens up. If she then does manage to leave him, as she tried to before, you can still see your GC.

Record his abuse, but then send the file somewhere else, e.g. email them or send them to a trusted friend. If you just store it on your phone, if he figures out what you've been doing he could delete them.

Keep talking here, we all believe you and this is a really supportive place

Thanks all. The message that seems to repeat itself, and it does sound wise is to keep close to my DiL. I will.
Since she texted me yesterday I feel that we can build a relationship and that I can help her should she and the children need it.

I will always be there for them.

When I first rang Women's Aid I commented that I had looked online for abuse of parent by adult son and could only find reference to older adolescents. Nothing much beyond 25 years old really.

But I was tiold that this is a bigger problem than people think, it is a hidden problem and that a lot of mothers in particular suffer in this way.
Persoinally I found it difficult to talk about because I was ashamed. Raising a son who , in mid life behaves this way is, imo shaming.

But I feel as though I am getting away from that now and talking about it openly is hard, but healing in a way that I couldn't believe.
Thanks again.

The fact that you say he controls DIL's texts is frightening too. The poor woman may well be facing violent outbursts & abuse everyday.
I would definitely try & visit her in the week when he is at work & ask her if he has these angry outbursts with her too ? if she is a SAHM she is probably in a very bad place. You may need to help her leave for the sake of your GC, who will be witness to this domestic abuse.

”My other son keeps at arms length from his brother as does his” ”wife. She has never seen him or heard him ranting and screaming.”

Your other DS knows exactly what his brother is like and is keeping his family away from him.

I agree this is a hidden abuse and does not seem to be much acknowledged. If anything is mentioned about it the stroppy teenager or slightly older is given as the perpretraitor. It is not apparent that older children do it too. OP's son is 50 my dc is 35. This situation has to be accepted as abuse before there is any hope it can be dealt with.

The end point of this - hopefully - could be that your DIL leaves your horrific son and his abuse and she and the grandchildren will be able to then build their own relationship with you.

Knowing that she has your support could help her in taking that step.

I would suggest that if you can even get one second alone with her - in the kitchen, making tea, your son going to the loo - just say to her very quickly - 'Would you do me a favour. Will you call me, or pop around, when you are able to do so without Son knowing? I just want a private word with you, if you would be able. But it's important you don't let him know. I will explain. Thank you'

Maybe talk to your DH and agree that if your son goes to the loo during the visit, he will quickly step out of the room so that you and DIL can be alone for a second.

Then if you can speak privately as a result, tell her:

• that he has been abusing you both, especially you, for years, that you are scared of him, and fear that she may be in the same position.
• that he has started using contact as a threat and that makes you fear for the grandchildren, and what he will expose them to, as well;
• that you want her to know that if she ever needed help of any sort, she could ask you and you would be there for her without him knowing;
• that if she decided to leave him then you would be there to support her as much as possible - that the wellbeing of the children would be your priority and that would mean that HER wellbeing would be your priority - not his;
• that you would confirm his abuse of you and your DH in support of her, if she needed confirmation of what he is like;
• that if she fears leaving him because he has told her that he would get custody of the children, NOT to believe him. Ditto 'you'll get no money/you'll be homeless' etc.
• tell her that you have spoken to Women's Aid about his treatment of you and got some good advice and support, and put that option to her. BUT be clear that you have only spoken about yourself - not her.
• Finally stress that there is NO WAY you or your DH would take any 'action' or try and push her into action - you just wanted to let her know what the story is with your experience of him and make sure she is aware that you would support her 100% if she needed it and if she chose to take action herself

Obviously that all sounds quite hard core! - of course you wouldn't be there shooting bullet points at her over a coffee - rather you would try and get across those main points in the course of a gentle and supportive conversation.

please consider this at least, or a version of it, as a step worth taking.

Well the best laid plans as the saying goes.

I had a phone call this morning and several texts fron DiL with photos as the week old baby had been taken ill and was on her way to hospital.

It is an infection they hope to have under control in a few days but are keeping her in on an iv drip poor wee mite. DiL will be staying in with her.
We collected toddler g/son from a friend and he is with us, but we haven't seen either of them obviously except briefly when I dropped some babygrows ansd nappies off at the hospital.

She should be fine but these things never fail to be a worry in ones so small.

Well, that's that plan scuppered but another will present itself no doubt.

Stay strong. You have been brave to ask WA for help and also to admit that DIL is likely also being abused.

Oh OP hope she is better soon.

Watch and wait for that opportunity to get her alone - it will come.

So you are his first port of call when he needs help. I wouldn't say that, but i would remember it when you are feeling down. What would he do if you weren't there?
Hope littliest one is OK.

Yes, I still work and run my own business but, and I don't want to sound too soppy, but my grandson is very important to me, and to my DH and he comes first.

I would not want him passed from pillar to post in an emergency.
I shove him under my arm and off we go.
He is such good company and I love him. I do this for my DGS not anyone else.

I am the first port of call though. I'm not sure how else they would have managed yesterday

Her mum wont do any more than the most basic childcare.