From perfect relationship to wanting to end it in 3 weeks

[GloriousDolores]

Sorry if this turns out lo g and boring...

I think it's probably a 'rough patch' and the 'incidents' probably sound minor but I feel really strange like I might just have changed the way I view him irreparably. It just doesn't sit right.

Been together 4 years, lived together 2. I have DD from previous who is 7. DP has recently bought a business, which I am involved in to a small extent. He and DD get along brilliantly almost all the time.

Bit of background - 1.5 years ago, I caught him messaging on a porn site. He insisted it was just porn to him, I felt the messaging crossed a line and he'd lied a lot about it so we split for a week or so. Since then, he's always been transparent, when it comes to that anyway. I dont think he really does transparent as it turns out.

Started a few weeks ago when I was looking through his emails to find something work related and something caught my eye. He'd set up an account on a credit score website in my name to credit check me. We'd been talking about buying house. I've had financial difficulties due to divorce in last five years and spoke of how I was worried about my credit. So he looked but never told me he had. I didnt like that at all, so we rowed.

Last week he didnt tell me that nearly 3,000 had been taken out of our bank account by mistake (true, it's being put back). When I found out, I'd been asking him about finances but he lied about it and then when I found out he'd known about this way before I did, he lied about knowing. Not just once, but denied it til he was blue in the face and I didn't understand why.

And today, he's been telling me I need to be firmer with DD. She's a very good and easy kid, often described to me as a 'delight' by independant, unbiased adults. Six year olds can be annoying though obviously, and this morning she was talking in a baby voice and nagging me to get out of bed (I am so not a morning person). He told her off a couple of times. He wasn't technically wrong but it wasn't really necessary. Afterwards he told me he felt bad. I said not to worry she's fine. But I also told him he's been a little quicker to annoy latey, which I know is due to over work and tiredness, but over the weekend maybe try and reset with her.

He then told he was just trying to set ground rules as he feels she needs structure and boundaries. Oh and apparently he's been doing research lately and babytalk is a 'serious issue', as is her too strong attachment to me. He has never shared this advice or even the fact he felt there were issues.

I'm now thinking he's hardwork and I wondering what the fuck is going on in his head.

He wins the ‘argument’ (that never had to happen and that he has created) doesn’t he with these kinds of lies? He gets the upper hand as you retreat and start thinking you need to do various things to make the relationship easier for him so that he feels able to tell the truth though.

Seems like he has crossed a line by bringing your DD into it now though and you’ve had a realisation.

Yes and after the initial desperation to be believed and arguing it to the nth degree, he looks me square in the eye and just says he's sorry, I'm right, he doesn't know why he did it. And looks really injured and has an 'I try so hard, it's tough to be me expression'.

He say he got into the habit of hiding things as his mother was abusive and his ex gave him a hard time about a lot of stuff so it was easier to keep things to himself.

It's not really washing anymore because I've never treated him badly.

Is he doing anything to ‘get out of the habit’?

I’d be worried re abusive mother and demanding ex explanation too. It would to a certain degree explain the hiding things but not necessarily the actual lying and the fact he doesn’t seem able to understand that you are a different person from his ex and his mother is worrying too.

To a certain degree if that is the truth it makes it somewhat understandable for him to have formed that habit, it doesn’t make it acceptable for him to treat you like that though, and even less acceptable for him to behave as though he is entitled to treat you that way - which is what the ‘poor me’ face and the turning it around on you are communicating.

Some men, and again not saying this is him, do things like this because they have learned misogynistic entitlement and view women as lesser and gender equality (and therefore relationships with women) as threatening and they feel they need to do things like this to retain their masculinity or they will disappear.

He could just be damaged by his past but then it begs the question ‘why is he in a relationship at all?’ If he isn’t capable of relating to a partner he cannot form a successful relationship.

Catching him messaging on porn sites 1 & 1/2 years ago was a good indicator he is a liar. He probably didnt want to worry you about that either.
He is obviously a liar and maybe a cheat too, although he probably hides that better now though.
That was a good reason to walk away, never mind the other lies and bollocks excuses. Starting on your poor dd takes it to a new level. He is a twat.

He expects you to feel sorry for him after you catch him lying through his teeth to you?

I am boggling at how that conversation ends? Do you tell him to get to fuck? Or do you sooth him gently? Or something else? I'd be livid if DH behaved like that then tried a poor me expression. I honestly can't imagine how I'd react. Maybe because I can't imagine him ever being that much of a dick.

Does he do that thing where he tells you you’re like a dog with a bone and can’t let go and it’s all about you being right at any cost? Ok fine ok you’re right, I lied I’m sorry, you happy now? You’re right, you’re always right, I’m the fuck up and you’re right....

That sort of thing?

I used to lie like mad when I was a teenager, I had a really complicated web of lies because my mother was unreasonable about some things and naturally worried about others. However I grew up and became truthful. You really don't want your child too close to such a bad influence, OP.

ER shiftymcgifty, that sounds really horribly familiar to me!!!

Some people are just pathological liars. You've told us it stems from his upbringing so there's probably 18 years of conditioning to undo. I don't think it's as easy as saying he has no need to lie now. Counselling for him might help.

Thanks everyone, he came home from work last night and we had a long talk and then I fell asleep pretty soon after.

He took a lot of what he'd said about DD and me back. TBF, there probably was a couple of things that I took the wrong way. He got quite upset about DD saying he loves her so much.

I believe him but I just told him, I generally don't trust him anymore.

There've been a few silly other incidents recently where I was sure he wasn't telling the truth - such as saying he'd already bought the present we needed to take to a family party (when I was happy to go and get it) but when we actually go, it's been left at work and then the next day, it's a different present to what he originally said.

And my sister had an issue with her car and he said without anybody prompting in front of my family that he'd already ordered something to fix it. But then it never turns up. Because he hasn't has he? He was just trying to look good. But it's pointless lies and I don't understand it. There are countless examples similar to these, just really daft small things that mount up and make me question everything he says.

He says I take everything 'too literally' but how? Surely if he says something, I should be able to take it as the full truth. Not a degree of the truth.

Anyway, I've told him we are spare rooming it. I've just lost all respect for him.

I can't break it off with him yet. My dad lent us a large sum of money for the business until we sell a vehicle. My DF would worry a lot if we broke up and I would a little bit too. So I am stuck for a few weeks anyway.

At finding out my first husband’s first, trivial lie I should have cut and run.
Thus began the first instance in a long 30 year plus marriage where he was secretive and dishonest.
I really don’t know who I was married to but he had me well duped. I was treated well 95 per cent of the time . The lies and duplicity get bigger and bolder.
So what I can say to you with the benefit of hindsight is that if it doesn’t feel right it isn’t.
My second husband is as honest as the days long. I like that and I like knowing where I stand.

So after a long talk you have come away feeling like you took some things the wrong way?

Did he say you take things ‘too literally’ in the talk?

My h was (is but I’ve left him) like this with the exact same type of little lies... with him it was because every time I said something like ‘oh did you get xyz thing? Don’t worry if you didn’t I can pick it up today ’ he’d think ‘women never say what they mean, this is a trap, it’s an instruction to buy the thing or I will have failed. I must not admit I haven’t got it’ and then he wouldn’t have time and would be all ‘don’t know where it is, that’s strange’ but would have been thinking ‘It’s your fault, what do you expect if you order me around with demands like a slave, this is what you get, no way am I going to be embarrassed about your behaviour’.

All I wanted was for us to communicate like adults and equals and for him to actually be included in stuff but he always tries to find hidden agendas in everything. He still believes that everything out of my mouth is some kind of instruction or demand that he has to evade.

Lying is such a big deal breaker. Once the trust is gone there is no return.

It took me 4 years of feeling confused and crappy to work out what was really going on and why we were in this endless cycle of me asking him stuff, trying to involve him, trying to support and encourage him to feel able to be involved before I worked out that he was never going to behave like a normal person, this stuff was ingrained from his childhood (his parents have the same dynamic) that he could only cope with life by being PA, that he was never going to love me without also hating me and that he didn’t even want to change because he assumed that even my distress at the situation was a manipulative trap.

XBF and another XDP (father of 2 eldest DC) were also liars. They lied to protect themselves because they were insecure and wanted to avoid vulnerability, always wanted to have the upper hand because they saw relationships with everyone as a power struggle with a winner and a loser and knee deep inside they were one of life’s losers, lying to everyone all the time kept themselves secret from the world and allowed them an advantage in life (until they were found out) but both of them were incredibly impulsive and just couldnt understand or relate to the idea of consequences so the inevitability of being found out just never entered their heads and when it actually happened they’d both use extreme anger, gaslighting, projection etc to escape consequences if they couldn’t just run away (with everyone not just me).

XDP later diagnosed BPD, suspect XBF is too.

Offred the story about your XH is the same I think, that's what he does. He seems to have this ingrained point of view about women and 'they're all the same'. That's where a lot of the lying comes from...'don't worry the little lady about money' (I have run my own business and have run my own house for years)...'I'm the man it's my job to lay ground rules and set boundaries with her DD'.

And sometimes, it's not at all badly meant. He can be a very nice person. Things have been really busy lately so last week we forgot to put the bins out! What a pain in the arse. And he was so apologetic, and worried really. He was so sorry HE hadn't put the bins out. But I was just like, hang on, why should YOU put the bins out, I didn't put them out either, don't worry about it.

And I've called him out a couple of times in the past because his friends will have asked to do something and I'll hear him say he needs to check with me, or that he can't because of me. Or he'll make jokes that he's going to be 'in trouble' with me for doing something bloke-ish. He makes me out to be 'her indoors' and I don't like it. He can do what the hell he wants, I'm not going to stop him.

It's like he wants me to take on this role, to make him more comfortable and make it OK for him to keep lying. It's ridiculous! We could have been happy but he's ruined it by not being trustworthy and for not accepting things about me.

I think it is fair to say I did take a couple of things he said the wrong way and he didn't mean them how I took them. It's important to be able to accept you're not always right. It doesn't change anything though.

He did say I take things too literally in the talk. This comes up a lot. Apparently I am a very black and white person. Also, a lot of what I say is 'too blunt', I could say things in a better 'inder' way.

I just think all of that is where the difference lies - I don't use ambiguous words that could mean one thing or another, I'm prepared to say something that he might not like or might cause an argument if it's the truth because it's called being honest.

I'm very sad that him being like this is costing our relationship. I was happy, we were happy, but he's ruined it.

As another poster said, when the trust is gone, it's gone for good. The lies might be silly and small and irrelevant now, but who's to say they will stay that way? I could never be with anyone who is behaving the way your DH is. Sorry OP, but I do think you are right to end this. Otherwise you'll be spending your whole life checking up on him and wondering what else he's lying about.

I was very sad too because I really loved him and wanted us to work in the beginning. I almost killed myself trying to make it work but ultimately had to accept that this was not only how he was but also how he wanted to be.

Since I left having spent years painting me as nagging, controlling ‘her indoors’ (whilst I was desperately trying to get him to talk to me) he has punished me by taking my entire friendship group with his ‘poor me my wife left me all alone’ and had drawn the children into his bitterness and hate re me several times.

If he is like my h (and obviously there are other kinds of liars than the two examples I gave) then you don’t really want DD learning from him and it is good you don’t have any shared children.

I don’t use ambiguous words either. I say what I mean. Not generally without tact but I have been, many times actually, on the receiving end of this ‘oh but you obviously didn’t mean x because women don’t say what they mean’ thing from men who also believe that I should have understood they were lying or being manipulative and somehow known that ‘What can I do?’ meant ‘Don’t ask me to do anything’ or ‘No! Don’t be silly, I want to come’ meant ‘I don’t want to come, resent you asking and won’t turn up or will be late/moody’ etc etc etc

We don't. Yet. We were actually TTC.

All this has literally exploded in the last 3 weeks. Before then, I was completely happy with the way things were going and he was part of the future and we wanted to have a baby.

We've not actually DTD much this month because of everything so I don't think I'm pregnant, but God, imagine if I was.

I don't fancy my chances of meeting someone new in time to be having more children now.

Thank you for taking so much of your time to write all your replies. It's really helped and I'm grateful.

Yes!Often I say to him, that he doesn't need to come to something, I'll be fine on my own. And I mean it! I'd prefer to go on my own to some things - I like to see certain family members or friends on my own sometimes. And also, if you've got to go and show your face to something, it's better to just go, get it done and not have to worry about somebody else.

But he'll insist on coming, and later, probably point out how he's been such a good bloke, squiring his woman to some do, and I'll say, 'you didn't have to' and he'll say 'yeah but I did really didn't I'. Grrrrrrrrr! TBH, that kind of stuff didn't bother me that much. I just think it gives an insight into how his mind works.

Sometimes he'll say things that completely generalise me. Silly things like, he knows I don't like doing x or y. And what he means is his mother or his x wouldn't have like doing x or y, but I actually would have thank you very much.

I think TBH, though it is sad re more children, if your DP is like my h and you are not PG then you’ve had a lucky escape. It’s incredibly difficult to co-parent with someone who just completely refuses to communicate about anything and is always looking for the hidden agenda in everything whether that is in what you say to him or in what he says to you.

It’s quite exhausting and certainly my H is so wrapped up in this way of living he has happily dragged out DC into it and they have been upset by it.

Even just a couple of weeks ago he came to pick the DC up from my nephew’s birthday party because it was his weekend and he’d said he wanted to take them to the park. DS had left his school uniform at mine and H had forgotten to take it when he picked the DC up but I needed to get to the supermarket before they shut (was a Sunday) or I would have no food for the week.

I have MS and don’t drive, DD has ASD and complex needs and I don’t get respite so I really need to do resting every other weekend.

DS only mentioned this at Pizza Hut (he’s 12 ) so when h came to pick them up I asked him what he had planned (he didn’t even reply), told him the issue and asked whether he wanted to drop me to the supermarket which would reduce the time it took me and then come to pick up the uniform on the way back, whether he wanted me to take DS with me to the shop and then to mine to get his uniform and then I would send him over on his bike or in a taxi but that might be a while as I’d have to walk there before doing the shop or whether he wanted to just take the DC as planned and then pop in for the uniform later when I was home.

He sat outside the supermarket waiting while I did my shop and then later told DTD that it was my fault he couldn’t take her to the park because he had to sit in the car waiting for me to finish shopping.

I had taken them to their cousin’s party on his weekend BTW because he didn’t want to sit with my family.

That is very sneaky of him setting up an account in your name to check your credit score. There is a total lack of trust on both sides so really is there a way forward from this. I'd say no unless you want years of being lied to and not knowing where you stand. And £3k taken out of your bank account 'by mistake'. What's that all about.