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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Is it rape?

75 replies

Jade90 · 25/02/2018 11:59

Hi I’m new to mumsnet so unsure if I’m doing this right.
I just wanted some advice. I had an argument with my husband the other night and things got a bit heated, I asked him to leave but he refused, then he started to try and calm me down but I was so angry with him that I just wanted him to leave. He started to kiss me I kept pulling away from him I did say no but I think I only said it once, the next thing I knew we were on the kitchen floor which was really cold and uncomfortable and having sex. Did he rape me? Thank you for your time and advice in advance

OP posts:

tropicalwaterdiver · 27/02/2018 19:28

@Frombothsidesnow Tropical, if you're very angry and asking someone to leave you alone, would being kissed by them 'calm you down'? I'd be fucking furious.

Don't be fucking furious.

When my kids are angry I hug them and they calm down almost immediately.

Obviously, her husband made a mistake and it would be better if he just walked away.

ResurrectedGoldfish · 27/02/2018 19:30

Yeah, you’re right. It would have been better if he’d walked away. Instead of raping her.

tropicalwaterdiver · 27/02/2018 19:31

@RebelRogue He kissed her to calm her down? Really?
Whatever happened to a cup of tea?

OP first post: "...then he started to try and calm me down but I was so angry with him that I just wanted him to leave. He started to kiss me I kept pulling away..."

UnimaginativeUsername · 27/02/2018 19:35

How you treat an angry toddler having a temper tantrum and how you treat an adult who is annoyed with you should not be the same.

Who ignores their partner’s request for them to leave and decides to kiss them to ‘calm them down’ (for which read: stop them complaining)?

ResurrectedGoldfish · 27/02/2018 19:40

“I said no”, “I kept pulling away”. Do you not understand that this means she didn’t consent??? Pulling a definition off Wikipedia doesn’t prove anything. Do you genuinely not understand what either consent or rape are???

ResurrectedGoldfish · 27/02/2018 19:42

@tropicalwaterdiver I think you need to ask yourself why you seem to be so keen to defend this man.

TheButterflyOfTheStorms · 27/02/2018 19:44

I hope the poor bloody OP got what she needed.

Because this arguing over semantics when a human being has been assaulted is repulsive. And some posters need to take a long hard look at themselves.

No one has a right to sex. But people do have a right to refuse it at any time for any reason. What exactly is so difficult about making sure someone actually wants to fuck you? Because some posters seem determined to make it as difficult as possible not to have unwanted sex.

Original poster

Jade90 · 27/02/2018 19:55

I'm not very good with words or explaining things but I just want to say I'm sorry for any confusion, I my self have felt confused and tormented though. I did say no and I did fight against him but I guess he thought because we are married it was ok. I have spoken to rape crises like and I'm dealing with this in the best way I can for myself at this time that's all I can say I'm sorry. Thank u again to the people that I don't even know but have been so supportive towards me and standing up for me. Your supportive words I can't measure because your words have given me strength and have helped me to realise that what happened was not excusible in any way so I never should have questioned it in the first place but I did and that was wrong of me to question it x

OP posts:

troodiedoo · 27/02/2018 19:57

OP hope you're safe.

Some of the comments on this thread are appalling.

kittensinmydinner1 · 27/02/2018 20:01

It's not possible to say from the OP if it was rape or not and it doesn't help to selectively take a part it the OP to 'prove' the point.
The sentence in entirety ;

He started to kiss me I kept pulling away from him I did say no but I think I only said it once, the next thing I knew we were on the kitchen floor which was really cold and uncomfortable and having sex.

It depends if you changed your mind between saying 'no' and the 'next thing I knew...' did you agree either in words. ? (Verbal consent - not rape) Did you willingly have sex at that point. ? (Non verbal consent - not rape) Or did you go through with it because you felt you had no choice. ? (Coercion - rape)

Rape in law is an extremely specific crime and that is why it's so difficult to 'prove' .

This doesn't mean a lot of the time that people whose cases are not proved - are lying. It's just a very fine line and the 'beyond reasonable doubt' threshold is often impossible to call.

Lizzie48 · 27/02/2018 20:04

How can this not be rape? They were arguing and the OP told her husband to leave. He kissed her, she said no and tried to pull away. He ignored her and basically pushed her to have sex with him. That is not consent.

If the OP said no, then it's rape, no two ways about it. She tried to fight him off. Some of the responses on this thread are appalling, I'm shocked.

I'm glad you've talked to Rape Crisis, OP, I found them very helpful when dealing with my memories of childhood SA. Look after yourself.

Bexter801 · 27/02/2018 20:05

You don't need to apologise,nor do you need to say you were wrong for questioning it. Of course your head is going to be all over the place,confused,in shock,hurting. I'm so glad to hear you've found strength,and feel clearer about this horrendous situation. Allow yourself time to get over this initial shock,decide what you want to do,regarding reporting him....get even stronger within yourself,be kind to yourself(surround yourself with people you love and trust),don't try cope with all this on your own.

kittensinmydinner1 · 27/02/2018 20:06

X post OP. I missed your update where you clearly say you struggled against him. Which clearly shows you did not consent in words or action.

I'm sorry you had to go through this . Of course you doubt yourself . No one expects this from the person who has vowed to live and care for you. Don't blame anyone but him.
Please talk to rape crisis. They are such fantastic knowledgeable people around this awful situation and will give you some great real life support.

TheButterflyOfTheStorms · 27/02/2018 20:11

@Jade90 you have done nothing wrong. Here or when the assault happened. Husbands aren't allowed to sexually assault their wives. It's wrong and illegal.

ResurrectedGoldfish · 27/02/2018 20:16

Op, you don’t need to be sorry about anything. Well done for calling rape crisis, that takes a huge amount of bravery. Sending you all the strength I can, you will get through this, I promise xxxxxx

tropicalwaterdiver · 27/02/2018 20:19

Jade, I am sorry that happened to you.

Take care of yourself and try to switch your brain to something else. No point to relive that again and again.

Could your family or friends stay with you or you stay with them?

UnimaginativeUsername · 27/02/2018 20:29

what happened was not excusible in any way so I never should have questioned it in the first place but I did and that was wrong of me to question it x

You have done nothing wrong, OP. Your questioning it was not ‘wrong’, it was an attempt to process what happened to you.

I’m glad rape crisis have been helpful. What happened to you was not excusable but you have nothing to apologise for.

OutyMcOutface · 27/02/2018 20:31

So reading you update I would say more likely than not.

Rape is penile penetration in the absence of consent and without reasonable belief in consent.

You have penile penetration-check
Absence of consent-you said no and fought back. Unless you later said yes/gave encouragement and meant it there was no consent.
Reasonable belief in consent-Believing that it's ok because you are married is not reasonable belief in consent. Unless you said yes/gave encouragement/enthusiastically participated or you had previously had a discussion along the lines of 'no means yes' there is no reasonable grounds for belief.

If you feel like he has hurt you physically then I strongly reccomend you go see a doctor-they will not inform the police without your consent.

If you intend to prosecute then you should go to the police as soon as you can.

I would also strongly urge you to find some support (outside of MN) rapecrisis.org.uk is a good place to start.

I'm sorry that your marriage is over. I'm sorry that it ended this way. I'm sorry for what he did to you. And most of all I'm sorry for how you feel

Original poster

Jade90 · 27/02/2018 20:33

I don't have anyone staying with me one of my girlfriends offered but she has a lot going on in her life right now so I don't want to be a nusance to anyone but I feel like I'm doing ok. I have a little dog though that I love and has been great company to me x

OP posts:

Bexter801 · 27/02/2018 20:36

Your not being a nuisance,plus you and your friend could possibly help each other out :)

Original poster

Jade90 · 27/02/2018 20:36

Thank you all I appreciate your support so much. I have and will take everyones advice x

OP posts:

Bexter801 · 27/02/2018 20:40

Best of luck with moving forward :) look after yourself,sending love x

Original poster

Jade90 · 27/02/2018 20:43

Bexter, unimaginable, tropical, and all the others that have been the most support u can possibly be on mumsnet. Thank u isn't enough for how supportive you have been. If the world has people more like you it would be 100% a good place. Thank you x

OP posts:

RebelRogue · 27/02/2018 20:45

have spoken to rape crises like and I'm dealing with this in the best way I can for myself at this time that's all I can say I'm sorry.

That's all that matters OP. Nothing to feel sorry for. Do. What is best for you under these horrible circumstances. So sorry you had to go through this. Keep strong.

Original poster

Jade90 · 27/02/2018 20:57

Thank u rebelrogeu x

OP posts:

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