OLD: Men mentioning ASD with no formal diagnosis...

[DatingExperience]

I wonder if anyone else has come across this before? I suppose within my post is a bit of a warning.

I met a guy on a dating site. We were on/off for about 6 weeks. In that time, he asked me a lot about my ASD and I willingly gave him information. He took the information and added it to his own profile, claiming to have the condition.

We discussed at length the possibility of his having ASD, but it became clear that, if anything, he had some odd personality traits which might amount to narcissistic personality disorder.

Fast forward, and it ended. It was the right thing to do. I blocked him on every medium, including the dating site. He was hard work and kept saying he did not want a relationship. Fair enough, but I didn't want to be picked up and dropped whenever suited him. Finally, he threatened me with talk of other dates he had lined up, and I decided that really had to be the end. Furthermore, he was rigid, controlling, preoccupied with his appearance, difficult to be with, competitive, aloof, hostile, argumentative, demanding. He fell out with everyone: bank, estate agent, his family, colleagues. Always the wronged one. Trying to remain friends would have been too difficult.

How weird it was to see his changing his profile telling potential dates he had mild ASD. Further into the profile he tried to make it sound as though he had already had a formal diagnosis, and like he carried the characteristics, but I know from my own research that they didn't match. I am concerned he might be "luring" women in, in a way, by sounding like a victim.

What am I trying to say? Not sure. I want to get this off my chest, and just to say that some men are not what they seem - but I know this is discussed a lot on OLD threads. You really do need a thick skin for OLD, but also, you need to keep your wits about you!

You dodged a bullet there OP.
You really do need a thick skin for OLD, but also, you need to keep your wits about you! That's sound advice too.
Onward's and upwards!

What an odd thing to do. He seems like a very troubled man.

Be glad that you got away OP.

Thank you. I was worried I might be told that I was being unreasonable.

He certainly IS troubled, isn't he? He really drew me in, but I can see now that these are not normal behaviours. I just hope that other women aren't taken in by his profile. Although if they are, good luck to them! I can't take that social responsibility. It was a weird experience. I hope he gets the help he needs.

Thank you for reinforcement. It certainly feels like I dodged a bullet. Good to have moved on from it.

Well done for getting away from him.

I have ASD too, and I find that it's quite common for abusive people to untruthfully claim to have it.

It's like they latch onto it as a way of claiming that they can't be expected to have any idea how their words and actions affect others, or to ever see anyone's point of view but their own.

But

1. That's not how it works. We still have to take responsibility up to a point, and most of us want to learn how to treat the people in our lives as well as we can.

1. There are ways of being a dick that are typically autistic, and ways of being a dick that really aren't. For example, I'm not saying that no autistic person is capable of manipulation - we're all different, after all - but if a highly manipulative person claimed to be autistic, I'd be very suspicious of that.

1. Someone not being able to help how they are doesn't mean anyone they're dating is obliged to put up with it. Abusive people who say that their behaviour is due to one or other cognitive or emotional problems seem to think that "I have [condition]" automatically means "therefore you're obliged to stand by me, however I treat you". No. No it doesn't.

I think a good understanding of conditions that these people often say they have can help a lot with escaping situations like this. As can trying to remember that it's absolutely ok to leave someone if their disability makes them a danger to you, including to your health.

Thank you SO much, WesternMeadowlark

Wow. I appreciate your reply. You have articulated why I have been so upset over it. I was hoping someone else with ASD would reply.

YES, it does seem to be common for abusive people to claim to have it. I think it gives them a socially acceptable reason to be idiots. As you say, justification for vile behaviours.

They forget that ASD is not the only condition where there is a problem with empathy, but this guy doesn't realise that what he describes is a personality disorder.

I was very cross that within minutes of his changing his profile, he said a previous date replied with sympathy. This just reinforces the untruth.

I love your bullet points. I discussed with my counsellor - who, herself, is becoming an expert on distinguising ASD from PDs - why it is frustrating:

1. Indeed, he was deflecting responsibility for my (and now, presumably, other womens') emotions

1. His high levels of manipulation were beyond ASD but used for his personal self-gain, continuously.

1. Agree: just because there is a disability, doesn't mean it is acceptable behaviour. He was a true shit towards the end. Even if it was ASD, some of the skills can be benevolently used (e.g. winning money on matched betting for charity) or can be used in an unfair fashion (e.g. cheating on taxes). Those are just examples, he didn't necessarily do them, but things like that.

Also, he claimed to be highly religious and Christian, but most of his behaviour did not correspond. Ditto having a pact with God may make you a god person, but not necessarily a good person. I am angry at the injustice.

Thank you very much for helping me to understand why, despite moving on, I still feel bitter about this person. It doesn't matter which disorder (if any), he is still a manipulative predator.

Watch out, anyone using dating sites, is what it amounts to, I guess...

the world is full of weird people. I'm quite a lonely person sometimes, I have many acquaintances but no friends. There was a mum I met at school. She was lovely, very nice. I got talking to her DH first and we 3 would meet at school and often my DH too making 4. We became quite good friends and I was very excited, texting, phone calls etc. Mostly by her but I was thrilled. After a couple of weeks she asked me about my walking and I said I have MS - she was really nice and concerned about my wellbeing. Asked me about my hospital consultant (see him privately) how I got my diagnosis, presenting symptoms etc. All over a period of a couple of weeks. I was very touched she would always ask after me and how I was feeling, what my symptoms were. Lovely girl. We felt sorry for them because they had no money, drove an unreliable car etc and gave them a few things they said they needed - gas BBQ etc, coffee machine still in box which we had but didn't use.

Roll on a couple of months my DH collected DS from school and was talking to her DH who is always open and more talkative when she's not around. She wears the trousers in their relationship! He said they'd spent the week looking at new cars, DH asked had he found a job. Nope, this chap said she had been repeatedly going to her GP and reporting my initial symptoms .... she was seeking an MS diagnosis and they were looking at Mobility cars!

I felt so betrayed that I cried for a good 4 days, I really thought she liked me and all the while I was a means to an end. He must've told her because she never came over to me again.

Even now I'm stumped. I was so tempted to contact her dr but I believe in karma. If I do a bad turn I'll get bit in the arse so I left it. I know they were short of cash but this took the biscuit. I sometimes read her blog - she's an aspiring writer and YouTube beauty blogger - she's saying she thinks she has RA or fibromyalgia - so the MS thing mustn't have worked out for her.

The mind boggles.

I'm very glad it helped .

"within minutes of his changing his profile, he said a previous date replied with sympathy"

LOL, it's like he wasn't even trying. Someone's lying being outrageous is helpful when it comes to getting out in time to save yourself, but it can also be really tough to deal with because of the sheer cheek of it. It's insulting that they'd think we'd buy it.

I find people saying things that simply aren't true very, very difficult to deal with. It gives me a weird sensation, like my brain is stuck or something. I don't know how to describe it!

It helped a lot to find out that I'm autistic, and that comparative inability to cope with untruths is common in people with ASD. It gives me more confidence in dumping people who lie. And I can tell them that they're not compatible with me, rather than making it a moral thing, which makes it go more smoothly.

But when I was younger, I thought being as truthful as possible would be more common than it seems to be, and I haven't recovered from the knock of finding out that a lot of people are ok with low level bullshitting.

It's helped a bit to change my view of the size of my pool of potential dates. If the sad reality is that there are far fewer people I can be with, for the sake of my sanity, than I thought, then I'd rather know about it than not!

But anyway, yes, he was clearly a predator, and you've done well to get away. I'm glad your counsellor is helping you work through it.

My goodness, Worldsworstcook also a crappy experience.

I'm very sorry about your MS, and about your loneliness. Makes it worse to think someone must have been preying on your knowledge. What a weird thing to do - almost like Munchausen's, but she took advantage of your kindness, which must be particularly awful.

What a freaky thing to do! I'm very sorry you had to grieve that. How rude of her to still pretend, and in such a public domain - bit like this guy, I think, garnering public sympathy. Weird!

It's so lovely to be able to talk about it, WesternMeadowlark, although I wouldn't put it beside him to find this thread and somehow castigate me for it.

Yes, exactly, like he wasn't even trying to cover his tracks! I even said to him - what you describe is not ASD but narc. He didn't like that much!

Lying is very hard for me to deal with, too. I was lied to by my parents a lot as a kid (different story) which made me think I was going insane, or that I had behaved badly in 'outsmarting' them. I agree and get the same - it is hard to deal with, I feel like I am stuck in the wrong gear and can't move. Similar to what you describe.

Yes, comparative inability to cope with untruths being common in ASD...I feel I have a sort of resilience. I can now trust my knowledge/gut instinct, and leave it, if it doesn't conform. It means I mostly deal with 'true selves' only, and dump the fake selves. Yeah, sadly a lot of people don't mind bullshitting, or even being bullshitted.

I've come to a similar conclusion. I have lowered my expectations, and now use dating sites to increase my social circle. If that leads to sex (when I would like it), great, but I don't owe these men anything and it's ok to walk away.

Hurrah! I shall clink my cup of tea to successful dating for ASD! Good luck, WesternMeadowlark, long may we stay safe!

I’m getting so sick of people “borrowing” the autistic label for their own ends. It’s one thing to think you /might/ have it but it’s another thing completely to tell others you actually do to get sympathy or sex...

Lucky escape OP. If you feel you can and there is a next time, perhaps pinpoint to a generic autistic ‘symptoms’ Checklist or NAS website instead of sharing personal experiences early on. I know in the throws it can feel like it may last forever but we autistics especially need to be more guarded when online dating as there are some right crackpots out there who seek out perceived vulnerability.

I hope your next date is a nice one

I've been diagnosed with autism on the NHS and it's really tiresome how many people 'self-identify' as autistic these days. I was initially misdiagnosed with a PD before I got my autism diagnosis, so I understand how the conditions overlap, but I can definitely see how some people latch on to it, especially as there is so much media attention on autism these days so it does generate sympathy and a sense of victimhood. I've even met a couple of people who have managed to gain actual diagnoses of ASD (but via a quick Skype chat , they would never have met the NHS threshold for referral). I think OLD especially attracts those types unfortunately and you really have to be careful.

Thank you, autisticappropriation I agree wholeheartedly. Goes for any diagnosis, doesn't it?

My next few dates were all lovely and I have learned not to overshare too early. I have changed my perception of dating, too. I don't need to have sex so fast. I'm in no rush. The right sort of guy will understand this.

Yes, agree, we, in particular, need to look after ourselves. Fucking idiots out there.

I complained to the dating site, too. If it were, say, schizophrenia, it would seem odd to put in one's profile "Schizophrenic man, would make ideal husband". Sadly the site was crap, suggesting I block him - well, durr, no shit, Sherlock. I am sure there is a case for disability law in there somewhere, but TBH, getting rid of this emotional parasite was enough justice in itself for me.

Thanks for support. I am so happy I started this thread.

Thank you for thoughts, Cosimo

Agree with everything you say, and also I wonder if more narcs are jumping onto the pseudo-ASD bandwagon as they are good at feigning and ASD must be fairly easy for them to fake.

I've noticed the overlap between PDs and ASDs but there are so many selectively different symptoms. I even suggested to him that his symptoms were more PD related. Stupid me. He was a definite 'victim' and loved the sympathy vote for anything.

I'm glad I didn't fall for it. I don't even hate him, as such, just feel pity. Hope he gets it sorted before his next long-term relationship, or he will be heading for another divorce PDQ.

Ah self identifying - the topic that brought me to mn in the first place (hence the username). I understand that some people (myself included) have to fight for a diagnosis and it’s not always easy or available but I never once referred to myself as autistic until I had the diagnosis because I feel that’s a dangerous game to play. To me it looks almost predatory to lay claim to it without the diagnosis. Different to suspect being autistic and saying as such but too many self-identified people are becoming the public voice of autism and appropriating the community for their own ends. It drowns out the actually autistic people from debate and drives public and professional understanding away from diagnosed lived experience to guesswork and presumption.

Exactly, Autisticappropriation, me too. I haven't even mentioned it on my profile now. What is the point? Have received diagnosis of HFA which makes a lot of sense. I didn't need to work hard for my diagnosis, mostly because it was very, very obvious that that's what it is.

How DARE he! I am so angry about it. If he were self-identifying, I could almost forgive that...but he obviously does not have it, and is mentioning it on his profile to garner sympathy and lure females in. How DARE he steal the information for his personal gain!

Wimp.

Many thanks for your kind words OP. My son has ASD and if I saw anyone imitating or copying his issues for their own ends I'd batter them senseless and call them out.

Funny how I wouldn't do the same for myself though!

A pleasure, Worldsworstcook, and sorry about your son. I can understand that. I feel more for the poor women being lured in, than I do for myself. What a wimp this man is. Arghhhhhhh! I have to unleash my growliness on here, instead!

I seriously despair of large chunks of the population here in the UK. I do think it's a pretty hard existence here these days and consequently it has become very dog eat dog and people doing shit stuff to get by including using self diagnosed (and false in some cases) mental disorders to fool people , rather than accept they are just 'a shit' to other people

Autisticappropriation I completely agree!

I got my diagnosis 2 years ago aged 26 and it was such a relief. Prior to this I never really told people that I suspected I might have autism, despite the fact that I'd been on the waiting list for assessment for 5 years. Now I have the diagnosis I feel a lot more comfortable about telling people. I'll happily say 'I have aspergers' to anyone that asks or if the situation comes up.

Also, before I had the diagnosis I didn't have autism because it's a medical condition and I hadn't been diagnosed with it. So there is no way I would have been able to tell people that I had it when I didn't. (Obviously I know that I have had autism all of my life and the diagnosis hasn't changed me, only me perspective)

If people are able to happily and publicly tell people that they have autism, then in my mind they either:

1. have been diagnosed with autism
2. are unlikely to have autism because a big and public lie like that contradicts a lot of autistic traits.

I have no issue with anyone who says that they think they may have autism. I know a handful of adults that have all of the traits, but they just can't be bothered to go down the route of diagnosis. Interestingly none of them have ever publicly self-identified as autistic.

And don't get me started on 'oh I'm a little bit OCD about my bookshelf being neat / kitchen being clean / items on desk in height order' I don't have OCD, but I do have compulsive rituals and it's a nightmare at times. One day I am totally going to lose my shit at someone who claims to be OCD because they like things tidy.

I agree, yetmorecrap especially considering the PP's experiences with supposed-MS "friend".

This guy....he isn't even doing it for benefits. He is in a well paid job and claimed to have amassed a small fortune. But fuck it, worse to do it just to gain sex and sympathy. Somehow I might try to forgive it in someone who was that hard up. But him? Misogynist wanker.

Precisely, MummySparkle,

A true ASDer would show symptoms. His were crap and related to narc behaviours. He is trying to pull the wool over women's eyes. I think, luckily, most people will be able to tell from the inconsistencies in his description. It is insulting.

I have a diagnosis, and don't tend to tell people unless I need to explain some of my behaviours. Often the behaviours occur and I think afterwards - oh yes, that's because of that.... I don't use it as an excuse for crap behaviours.

To use it on a dating profile is particularly shit. I would like to see these sites either screen, or ban definition-of-self by armchair diagnosis.

I hope people see through his crappy lies.

My friend lives with an abusive anti social arsehole. She’s diagnosed him herself and uses asd to excuse his behaviour

Awful, Jelly Looks like I really did dodge a bullet...

Jelly, interesting you say that, I know someone in exactly the same situation, using vague references to possible ASD to excuse his selfishness. Not sure if she is trying to convince herself or the rest of the world really but either way it is not good.

My DS has a diagnosis of ASD and I get the red mist when people start saying that someone unpleasant or rude must be ASD. It takes all my self-control not to scream at them that rudeness is not usually a defining characteristic of Aspies or ASD people.

Anyhow, DatingExperience, well done for not falling for that guy's shit. Onwards & upwards and thank you for the reminder that there are a lot of dicks on OLD.