Can people change?

[Zoo33]

I have another thread on emotional abuse but am intrigued and hoping to hear from anyone who gave an emotional abuser a second chance.

I'm not considering going back to my emotionally abusive boyfriend (for anyone who reads this and worried) but he's adamant that he didn't know he was doing it.

So my question is this: can he change? Does anyone have any experience of it happening successfully and of being happy again in the relationship?

No. It's as simple as that. Sorry. People don't change. They might like to think they have but deep down they are the same person.

No!! Definitely not.
People can change obviously but never ever believe that you can change them, or get back / remain in an abusive relationship because you think that person can or has changed.

This also goes with thinking you can fix someone.

I'm watching this with interest.

Yes they can with the right help and the will power to do so. My ex partner was emotionally and occasionally physically abusive. It was a young relationship but 14 years on he is one of my bestest friends, he is happily married with kids, a good husband and father and he is as calm and laid back as they come. He had intensive CBT which made a massive difference and was medicated at one point but doesn't need any of that now so yes with the right help it's possible to learn how to deal with your issues and get your mental health back to normal

People can, and do change all the time.

Sometimes they change for the worse, sometimes for the better.

If, however, someone does address deep flaws like you describe OP - in my experience they only ever do it for themselves, not for anybody else.

No, people don't change much. It is technically possible for people to change, but it's unusual for them to do so.

I had a boyfriend who was very emotionally abusive to me. We were both about 20 at the time.
I broke up with him because I realized we had argued every day for a month and I just couldn't bear it anymore.

He was devastated and told me he didn't know what he was doing - it wasn't intentional at all. And I believed him, I still believe him now. He was just doing what came naturally to him - his dad was the same way with his mum. Some people's families are just based around emotional abuse sadly and they don't know any better.

In my head, it was just oh well he doesn't mean it, so that means he can just change, now that he's aware he's doing it. No problem. So we got back together.

I married him a few years later.

We are now getting divorced. He managed to force himself to be a different person for short periods of time. He did well sometimes. But the moment there was the slightest stress - new baby, redundancy, change in income, problems with friends, house move, you name it - he instantly reverted to emotional abuse tactics.

Because that was just his way of getting more attention from me. He literally didn't know any other way of asking for what he needed, except through abusing me.

I left when I realized our DC were at risk of repeating the same pattern.

People don't change - especially when it comes to things that they struggle to even realize they are doing. Let him go. Take time to heal x

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts with me. I'm sure he can (and maybe already has?) change to some extent, but it shouldn't be for me and I have my doubts as to whether he could change enough for me to be happy and to trust him again.

@Grunkle Your post really resonates because it's losing our baby and his reaction to it and to me afterwards that really brought things to a head for me - it really was the last straw. We were also getting stressed about buying a house together and I was (am) unhappy in my job - so there are lots of external stresses waiting to stir things up.

The thing is when people say that they don't know they're doing something means that they are not taking responsiblity for their actions. They are not self-aware and do not consider anyone else's feelings or needs. It could be down to habit but only they can change it if they want to. Once it has been pointed out and they don't become accountable, they never will. We have control over one thing - what we do. All of us.

If someone is adamant they didn’t know they were doing it, then they literally don’t know how to change.

@Zoo33 when I saw this thread was by you, it made me so nervous!
Please don't waste another thought on him.
Please cut contact!

@Mrstobe90 I have cut contact, I promise. I was just interested to get opinions on this, as I know how I feel about it. X

I’m so relieved!

Also in answer to your post, no, he hasn’t changed. He just wants you to think he has.

People can mature and change in themselves. They can realise that past behaviours were wrong.

They might not always change how they behave towards one person.

They might always disrespect you.

They might always see you as someone who they can abuse.

Their behaviour might change but it might not change towards you.

Are you ok with that? I hope not sweetheart.

Yes, in rare cases where they take ownership of their faults (although true narcissists can't ever, I think.)

However, I don't think they ever can within a relationship where they've been the abuser. I think that dynamic between two people becomes too fixed.

My exh told me he had changed and made a lot of effort when we got back together but he became even worse when we split so I know it was all an act.

People can change if they want to change and if they control their actions. It's like weaning off an addiction.

Thanks everyone for your opinions. I think the risk is always that a problem like this in a relationship won't be fixed by staying in that relationship. I appreciate the clarity this has brought me!

Ok firstly stop making excuses for him.
Your responses are actually saying something very different to what you want them to.
You are wasting time asking this question but I know why you are.
I have asked my therapist the same question many times, did he reaalise what he was doing, is it his fault, can he change? She didn't know the answer to the first 2 but the the third was easy, no not without help.
Most people who are abusers are abused. Some deep seated trauma has caused them to become abusers. They are emotionally stunted individuals. Unless they acknowledge, admit and commit 100% to intensive therapy/CBT they can't change.
Also many have become dependant on either alcohol or drugs, this also needs addressing.
He didn't abuse you because of awful external pressures, he abused you because he is an abuser.
Treating someone badly for a short period of time as the result of struggling to cope with an extremely difficult time/event/loss is very different to abuse.
The main thing here is it's your job to fix you not him.
It's your responsibility to change your thinking not his.
Going through and asking these questions in your head over and over is you trying to rationalise what he did to You, this is one step before excusing it and giving him another chance.
But in answer to your question I gave my ex many chances. I listened to him promise me many times he would change and he did for short periods of time but each time the abuse escalated to a higher degree. Emotional abuse led to mental abuse, mind games, emotional blackmail, which included gas lighting, trying to make me think I was going crazy. In turn this led to attempted shaming, secret texts to my family telling them I needed mental help? Thankfully they didn't fall for it. He even tried financial abuse and intimidation.
That escalated to extreme verbal abuse and very high level attempted control. I fought his abuse every step of the way, I refused to back down and accept this is how I deserved to be treated. I refused to give up my independence. Eventually I was locked in the house and physically assaulted over a period of hours, I thought he was going to kill me. Luckily I got out, I pressed charges, we got a guilty but he lied and manipulated until the end.
So in answer to your question no I don't think they can change. And as an add on I give less than a flying fuck if they do or not. An abuser is an abuser end of.

Abusers can change the way they behave, just look at how many women go back to the same old abusers following weeping, wailing and promises. However, they can't change their personality once it's formed in adulthood. So what I mean is, imo, abuse is a conscious decision. Once the abuser becomes more settled, his personality traits will show themselves again. Every.single.time
Oh and I do wonder whether all abusers have personality disorders

When it comes to abusers? No. But you can change by learning not to involve yourself with them. Do the Freedom Programme before you even think of dating again.

Thanks guys.

@ALittleBitConfused1 I was utterly horrified to read about what you went through. Well done on getting out.

I was in an emotionally abusive relationship. My ex had borderline personality disorder and he HAS changed. yes he still makes some frustrating mistakes but he is now trying and he takes continued responsibility for his behaviour. That said he's abuse has had a lasting effect and even after the major "awakening" (4 years ago) he has still needed to constantly work on himself right up until the present. I still say he's changed as the initial change was very significant and he has no longer been abusive, just frustrating and slow on the uptake. He no longer threatens me physically, fat-shames me, guilt-trips me about sex, calls me a bitch or s&%t and the endless whinging and guilt-tripping has ceased. to be honest I think a major part of the reason he's a bit slow to process things is bcos of his non-existent childhood education combined with his former heroin, cocaine, pot and alcohol abuse. He now listens and I can tell that despite not always "getting it" he does try to consider me. Since his "awakening" there has been very real albeit gradual improvement. The suicide talk reduced significantly (70%) at the time and ceased all but entirely about a year ago. He has completed a domestic violence course, cut out drugs & alcohol & gotten rid of all his druggy friends (his only friends), has seen councillors and has tried to get a social worker. Yes it can happen but it is rare and in no way is it an easy road. This is not as easy as it may sound.

Of course they can change, or we wouldn’t be looking at the number on here of failed marriages!! No one marries anyone they think is a bit of an arse. Sometimes change is for better, sometimes not

I really disagree with everybody saying abusers can't become good ppl. This is completely untrue and it removes the responsibility to change from the abuser. They are obliged to change bcos they can. Why should they even try to change if no one believes they can? It sends the message that if they genuinely do in a long-term way still no one will believe it. I'm not saying trust them time and time again. I'm saying leave and if they do change and prove it (courses, good behaviour for at least a year+) then you can agree to have them in your life again (as a friend or allowed to see the kids)

Occasionally people can change but it's rare. It also takes a long time unless some life shattering event wakes them up - a brush with death, the loss of someone they love a lot.

But most people carry on as they are because it's really hard to change the way you do things. Manipulation often works too, specially on people who don't know what to look for, so it's even harder to give it up as a tool. Children and people from a loving background are particularly vulnerable to it.

Change needs:

1. the will
2. the knowledge of how to do things different
3. the ability to start doing them differently, which usually involves support.

If someone has been in an abusive situation, they shouldn't go back into the relationship because the pattern is set between them and it's ten times harder. You've got to change thought patterns and behaviour and when stressful times hit, old patterns resurface.

It takes a lot of hard work for an abusive person to change and personally I think that only 1 out of 20 really does.