How to parent adult children without consensus of style

[MuddledMoira]

Our 2 DC's returned home after a year away, they have been back about 9 months. My DP (their DF) and I don't have the same expectations about parenting them/sharing the house with them. It's causing huge problems all round and I'm in tears of frustration most days. DP, DS and DD each now thinks that I am hysterical and have an anger problem. I have booked on an anger management course in Feb and have started to see a counsellor but I don't feel objective about the situation at home at all, so much so that a huge part of me thinks I am being 'labelled' unfairly and that I'm being painted as the bad person because I have different expectations.

I no longer say anything about what I think should be happening, to my DP, as we argue every time, and it is easier to let him get on with doing it his way. I no longer address anything with my DC which I think should be addressed/raised/discussed, as they 'write off' what I'm saying as me being mean and nasty. I simply do not know if I am, any more.

I'll give an example. DS (20) needs to buy a car as he has a job starting on Monday. I bought his first car , about £1500 and he broke the big end within 6 months and he has been borrowing his DS's car (which I bought around the same amount) since then, as she had not passed her test.

She has now passed her test and wants access to her car.

I have researched and identified suitable cars for DS to buy he can afford it himself now): he is utterly incapable of organising this himself, I can say more about this if need be, but basically he relies on me and his DF to organise everything for him, I have tried and tried to teach him/support him/guide him into being more self reliant but his DF just steps in every time and 'saves' him.

Anway, DS asked his DF to go with him to look at the possible car and they agreed last night to leave at 11 am today. I had also mentioned to DS that it would be really nice if he also mucked out his DS's car which is a filthy mess inside where he has left his rubbish in the car over 9 months. 'Yeah I'll do that tomorrow' he said. So this morning I was not expecting DS to get up say 10am, muck out his DS's car, and leave to see the possible new car with his DF at 11. His DF agreed this was a plan.

Come this morning, DS is in bed; 10.30 I say to DP, should he not get DS up? Nope, he says, this would be treating DS like a child, telling him when to get up. It becomes clear that DP would go with DS to the garage this afternoon, if DS gets up late (DP has an appointment 2-4 today). I say this is ridiculous - that DS should be getting up, and doing what was agreed. DP says DS is an adult. I say yes - with all the adult rights but none of the responsibilities. DP will bend over backwards so that DS is never inconvenienced, upset, or expected to do anything (he does absolutely ZERO around the house). DP says he will always help and support his DC's when they need him. I say this is bad parenting and is enabling our DC's to become entitled and lazy.

I then start crying - again , it's every bloody day tbh - and then I get so angry that I want to rage at everyone (and this last reaction is the one I accept is totally unacceptable and that I am working on).

DP is an easy going, conflict-averse, passive and kind man. I am not easy going, I am intolerant and judgemental, and I'm an active, problem-solving person. It was okay when the DC's were small but now they are not, it's becoming a really awful situation.

I want to flee the house - I feel like we are not doing the right thing for our DCs, and that I am powerless and disenfranchised from being a parent.

DP did say, 'why don't you parent them your way and I'll parent them my way'. I don't see how this would happen, and also I feel angry that I then get to be the 'bad mum' who eg asks them to load the dishwasher, put their shoes away, feed the cat etc.

I feel like running away. I feel so lonely at home. I don't know what to do.

Can anyone help me get clear what's going on or what to do?

DC's are boy/girl twins

that bold 'not' should not be there!

With all due respect, can I ask if you are menopausal? You seem to be very emotive.

You do need to focus upon your own life and not think about what your adult children are doing each day.

You do not need to convey your expectations upon them on a fail basis. That ship has sailed and the opportunity was ripe when they were youngsters.

Overall they sound like good people - release your grip

Daily not fail

You shouldn't be parenting your adult children at all!
Seems like the time to address your differences in parenting styles was about 18 years ago. You have a spoilt lazy young man on your hands who won't grow up while his dad babies him, but he is such because you haven't (jointly) parented him well enough from childhood.
Under your circumstances I think I'd be moving out and leaving them to it.

Can you run away?
For a little while at least?
Just get out of the house and go somewhere else for a few days.
I'd be leaving them all to get on with it.
Could you afford your own place?
Little one bed flat all of your own?

It sounds like it’s your dp who’s the problem. I don’t think you need anger management. Anger is a perfectly rational response to the situation. He’s undermining you when you’re trying to get your dcs to stand on their own two feet.

You need to take a step back in trying to organize his life. He needs to learn from the consequences of his actions. The consequence of sleeping in is that he has missed the chance for his dad to help him buy a car. He has no automatic right to drive his sister's car. She should be told that she can refuse access to it at any time, as it is hers. Doing nothing round the house is unacceptable. If they want to live in your home they need to behave responsibly. I certainly wouldn't be doing stuff like laundry for them. It sounds like your main issue is that you feel like you are general dogsbody for everyone and expected to do all the housework in a house of four adults?

I know they are your children, but I think that's where you're going wrong.

They're adults and you shouldn't have to or be trying to 'parent' them. I'd try to stay out of things a bit more if I were you, so your son wasn't up this morning, leave him and he deals with the consequences. When he starts the new job he can't be lying in bed all day anyway but it's his responsibility to get up.

I know that it must be difficult for you but causing yourself to be crying every day is no way to go on, for any of you.

I can understand your frustration op because I am the one who enforces rules/discipline in our house and dh (who travels a lot) is much more relaxed -not passive - but dislikes confronting issues head on. We have a teen daughter (much younger than yours) and I sometimes feel a bit powerless because I feel like they are ganging up on me in situations where I am insisting that DD follows through with chores etc. DH will have been away and doesn't quite "get" that she has been promising to do x "straight away" for the past fortnight! I've had to have a word with DH and remind him that we are meant to back one another up.

I do think you are being a little unreasonable about a specific
arrangement made between your DS and your DH - if your dh is not worried with the slipping timings - why should you be?

However, it might be a good idea to sit down and agree with your DH about some basic expectations that you have of your adult DC now that they are back at home: what they contribute financially/in terms of housework etc and then present these to your DC together. That might help you feel a bit more in control of the situation?

You need to take a step back. Your son is an adult and just because he acts like a child doesn't mean you have treat him like one. He learns nothing by you micromanaging him and the relationship between him and his father. It's up to your DP to decide on the parameters of their relationship.

Chill and let your son suffer the consequence of his behaviour.

Just let them crack on - this car scenario need not have affected you at all. If your DH is happy to run around after the DCs let him, he'll probably get fed up eventually.

If it were you that was 'booked' to take DS and he didn't get ready just carry on with your day - if you are busy/out when he finally gets ready tough shit. He complains, you say "Oh sorry darling I thought we were going at X o clock and when you were still in bed I assumed plans had changed".

Be nice, don't stress about it. Stop finding cars for your son, he can find his own. If your DH steps in that's his business. Treat them like the autonomous adults all three of them are.

And go out more - it sounds claustrophobic!

Stop. They aren’t children. Let them sort it out between themselves.

Aslong as your DS is treating your house with respect (cleaning up after himself, paying rent on time, etc), let him crack on. Leave everything else down to him. If your DH makes an arrangement with your DS, that's for him to sort out. You're not your DH's mum either, he can sort it out himself. Your DD can also arrange for your DS to clean out her car for her, if that's what she wants.

Agree with the above. If the arrangement between DH and DS falls through then it's not your problem. If DS and DD can't sort out the existing car then it's not your problem. They are adults, leave them to it. Learn to let it go because it's not your problem (and make sure that they don't try to get you to police their fallings-out).

Well for a start....ditch the anger management.....get some proper counselling instead, counselling to help you detach.

YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM HERE!!!

And you're family sound like they are gaslighting you a little.

Convincing someone it's they who have the anger issues, rather than the actual bully, is totally out of line.

Detach.

Let your kids make their own fuck ups.

Don't help them.

Don't finance them.

Set out a plan of household contributions such as financial and housework based.

Tell them they stick to it or they find a houseshare.

If DH disagrees with this (prefectly normal, reasonable) arrangement....tell him you won't be taken for a mug by a bunch of entitled lazy gits, and they can wallow in pathetic-ness while you divorce.

Stop enabling them.

And stop letting them gaslight you into thinking you are the problem.

AND STOP HELPING THEM WITH PERFECTLY NORMAL TASKS.

IF YOUR SON WANTS A CAR....LET HIM SORT IT HIMSELF.

IF HE LAYS IN AND MISSES STUFF, IGNORE IT.

MAKE SURE YOUR DAUGHTER GETS TO USE HER OWN CAR, HER BROTHER HAS NO RIGHT TO IT.

Sorry for shouting.....

You lay down rules.....
They pay X amount a month.
They do X housework.
You will not assist in any admin, if they don't do it, tough shit.
If DH does stuff for them, just ignore it....it's his problem.

And if they don't stick to the rules....out they go.

They're adults, they don't need parenting, except in a "push out of the nest" type.

I agree with Lana, except this bit: "make sure your daughter gets to use her own car".

No. You don't have to make sure of this. She presumably has the nous to take the keys away if she doesn't want her brother to use it. It's also not up to you to make sure he cleans it - that's between them.

But yes, re: house rules, it being up to your dp if he does them a favour, absolutely.

Plus, can you take yourself off for a few days for a breather? Give yourself a break.

Yeah.....I worded that badly!

What I meant was really to "empower" (hate that term) her daughter to say "no"

Cos in this sort of dynamic it could easily become "entitled brother thinks he has rights to it, sister feels obliged because- family dynamic"

It was this phrase in the OP

She has now passed her test and wants access to her car

There should be no "wanting access" it's hers, and I hope she has told her brother to fuck off and get his own....but I worry that she is being pressured/feels obliged to let him carry on using it.

I totally understand where you are coming from - you are at the end of your tether after decades of a dysfunctional "parenting partnership".

I live this life - it is exhausting and soul destroying. It has nothing to do with the DC and everything to do with the DH.

My DH is conflict averse and it has been v v v difficult trying to raise normal kids with his pandering/infantilising ways which have undermined any basic standard parenting level of boundaries/rewards/consequences that all children need and that I have tried to put in place.

It is a passive aggressive dynamic. His "parenting style" is just conflict aversion and lazy (man child) to ease his OWN emotional discomfort and has nothing to do with any insight into, or even an alternative approach to, raising children or what THEY need to grow and develop to independence.

This meant that I had to work extra hard just to get through the days as my workload was tripled - doing my share of the discipline and parenting, his share of the discipline and parenting and then a third level where he would undermine what I had put in place. It ended up good cop / bad cop and guess which standards the children choose?

It also spiralled as the more laid back and undermining he became, the more agitated, exhausted, resentful and angry I became. I suffered severe depression and almost had a breakdown (peri menopause and 4 teens may have added to the load....).

We had a miserable marriage as we were not in partnership. I asked him to leave as we had an angry, conflicted home and it would be easier to do it myself.

And it was sooooooo much easier and peaceful when he left - the household was easy going as there was one set of respectful expectations (not onerous or boot camp) for living together as a team.

He saw from the outside how much more harmonious family life was when he was out of the equation, despite the break up of the family. He sought counselling (as did I) and we got back together. Life is loads, loads better but he still can frustrate the situation so it is a work in progress.

My advice is when you are clear headed, sit down with him and agree some household parenting standards, expectations, principles and values and day to day jobs/responsibilities. Then when something new comes up (like expectations around the car and timekeeping) hold off judging the incident and wading in but ask to refer to how does this action/response relate to the already agreed family values.

But sometimes you will just have to stick with implementing your values/standards that you have set with your one to one relationship with your kids and allow him to have his.

For instance in my house I expect the teens to do their own laundry - I will never do it for them - DH still does it for them despite my initial protestations - but I just smirk now when I see the rod he has built for his own back when they are screaming for clean knickers/bras/tights on a Monday morning and he cant cope....pathetic really....his conflict aversion doesn't get him very far and eventually catches up with him.

another

This leapt out at me from your post....

It is a passive aggressive dynamic. His "parenting style" is just conflict aversion and lazy (man child) to ease his OWN emotional discomfort and has nothing to do with any insight into, or even an alternative approach to, raising children or what THEY need to grow and develop to independence

Fantastic insight, and chimes with what I get from the OP

I agree, you don't need anger management. You are not the problem. I think your DH is. The only thing I'd say about your behaviour is - let your DD sort out her brother cleaning her car.
It's not your responsibility to make life nice for her (unless it's her birthday of course).
It's not your responsibility to make sure he is up and about ready to get things done which are for his own benefit.
You are no longer the bridge between everyone, making their lives easier and sweeter. They all need to find their own relationships with each other.

I am not of the 'chuck em out at 18, they're adults' brigade. I am the youngest of 5 children, all of whom successfully made the transition between kid of the house and young adult of the house and we all continued to live happily at home with our parents, some until early 20s, one until they turned 35.
You need a policy on board, on meals, on housework. Other than that, get on with your own life, your work, your hobbies, your telly programmes, your holidays, your rest and sleep. In an ideal world, your DH would be on board with this and it would be our life etc. But if he wants to tart about 'parenting' like he did 10 years ago, let him get on with it.

I think you need to step back. This morning really shouldn't have upset you, your ds is an adult, he is more than capable of being up and dressed for 11am and so if he isn't that is entirely his own fault that he missed his appointment, there s absolutely no reason at all why you should wake an adult dc. As well as your ds your dh is also an adult and if he wants to waste his time helping your ds he can.

Set down some rules with your dc of what you want them to do and how it's all going to work and that's it. Don't do it for them, if you dh wants to again that's his choice.

Why on earth were you research in cars for your ds? Tough luck if he won't do it himself he doesn't get a car!

Thanks all.

I feel much calmer reading your responses.

The idea of them paying bed and board is laughable as my DP won't hear of it. My DS will be earning a fraction less than his DF gets as a pension, too. I have tried to agree chores etc with DP and DC, it lasts less than a day, then I get angry and so it goes on.

I agree with PP that many boats have sailed. I do think DS is bone idle but my DP thinks DS has "issues" and needs support. It's so hard to know tho. Eg DS won't make purchases in shops, to the point where he came home from 1st year at uni 3 stone lighter and emaciated. So DP buys his petrol.

I do need to let DP do what he pleases. But I'm ashamed when I think of the women who will be aghast at my DS's laziness and lack of life skills.

I could go away and have been looking at volunteering abroad!

My DP is absolutely someone who will do and say anything to avoid discord.

Lanakanes, you're spot on about his DS not feeling able to be direct with her DB.