Why do parents deny abuse - and I come back for more?

[Dojos]

I can't possibly write down a whole 40 years here! But I am just desperate for some other perspectives - and I can take anything you say.

Background
Middle of 3 children, parents had a pretty rough upbringing. My own can only be described as fraught. My parents marriage was rocky, they're still together tho. Neither of them speak to their own families as they've managed to alienate them all with their harsh tongues or controlling with money. There were a lot of arguments, beating leaving bruises on my and my older brother (but not my younger sibling), emotional abuse, and frankly loving at a very basic level but in a totally screwed up way. I have never felt like I wasn't loved. But its left its mark - I am totally traumatised by some of the beatings. My siblings and I aren't very close as we are constantly pitched against each other and I can't remember a conversation with my parents where they don't spend the whole time slagging each sibling off, ultimately turning us off each other. My brother has pretty much cut my parents off apart from the odd visit with his kids. My sister lives close by to them, forced to by them after they controlled her enough to get her to abandon her life in another city and any boyfriend she's ever had. She is also volatile and aggressive, she beat me on my hen do and at my brothers wedding party, and she slammed my newborn down on the kitchen counter during an argument. I've kept her at arms length ever since, but it is heartbreaking as I don't think she is an awful person either. The one common thread we have? All 3 of us have been groomed to rely on my parents financially. They worked very hard for their money and gave us a great education. But working hard meant a lot of family stress, there was much quality family time. And we weren't allowed friends to the house either. Helping us financially has essentially given them total carte blanche to let their opinions run riot on our marriages, our parenting, what we spend our money on. Some I get of course and I don't know how to express my gratitude. Which I do regularly. But if we don't do as they say, they emotional and verbal abuse is debilitating so it's just been easier to go along with it all.

Me
Mum of 3, great job, extremely low self esteem. I was the quiet middle one, I never stood up to them. I would call my self the glue of the family, peacemaker as I constantly help the other two navigate my parents and calm my parents down when they've done something my parents down agree with. My mum has said I will never be as good a mum as her amongst other delightful put downs and it pretty much caused my first ever depression a couple of years ago. She is narcissism personified - only her feelings will ever count and she is unable to look at another side of a story. Im terrified of being like them, so much so, I can barely discipline my own kids. I have a loving husband who I push away thanks to my parents constantly making out he's a terrible husband and father. I can't list all the examples as to why he is not - but he's just great. And I have let them poison me against him to the point I (very wrongly) don't usually find his opinion valid. My parents have managed to make me think their word is God.

Why its come to a head
My Dad put massive pressure on us to send the kids to private school - we couldn't afford it but he said he would pay until we were on our feet. (I had to take a couple of years out for our special needs child). I worked my ass off to get an MBA (which I funded) and get an awesome job so I could try and get some financial independence and ultimately control back from them. Then two years ago he decided we shouldn't be renting and to find a house to buy, he would give us the deposit. So we looked and found one. Who would say no? In a normal family this would work just fine! Except every single conversation has been an opportunity to call me all the names under the sun. We put an offer in on a house and at the last second my Dad asked for 50% ownership for his 10% deposit.

At this point I just said to myself stop. I realised that he used to control with the fist and my mum with her tongue. But now Im too old for that (not always tho!) they do it with money. If I let them help us with a house - the control and my inner voice which is actually theirs, will never end. So I said thank you but no thank you. I couldn't cope with all the aggressive conversations. We've decided to rent a cheaper place and put the kids in public school. And frankly we will all be just fine. And the RELIEF I felt. I felt so bloody free.

Except they lost the plot. You'd swear I was making my kids homeless. And then they denied being aggressive. So I listed a lot of abusive episodes from my childhood. I told them that my brother and sister have been worried about them looking after my kids as they'd seen them be a bit OTT with discipline and patience. My brother won't leave his kids with them. (Personally I am uncomfortable with their lack of patience and ideas of discipline, but have mostly been impressed at how different they are with my kids than they were to us)

And I thought great, its going to be unpleasant but this is the moment where we can put it all on the table and start healing. BUT THEY DENIED IT ALL. And not only that they have been messaging my husband saying they are worried about my mental health. I sat in a bar with my brother last week and he has denied to them that he's spoken to me recently. My sister says what Ive done is unforgivable. They have all rallied against me, despite my brother and sister saying supportive things privately. I have lost my sister for good, and don't feel like I can trust my brother so much.

Why can't I just walk away?
My Dad is seriously ill and on drugs that alter his personality. Not that that explains the other years. I love him to pieces, but I cannot handle the mind control anymore. Several days silence has caused me so much pain I even vomited with the stress. I am not mentally ill. I haven't made any of my childhood memories up. I have an excellent memory - my whole family knows I do. I have a message from my mum two weeks ago saying she is worried about my Dads aggression - and now she's rallied against me too.

If I cut contact, I make myself ill, and possibly send my Dad to a much earlier grave. So I reached out to yet another abusive message and said its all gone too far but I don't know how to move forward. Their response? To message my husband trying to force the house deposit on him and state yet again they're worried about my mental health. My husband has commented to me he's never seen me so sane :) I cannot believe they are now trying to use him against me too. The sad fact is if they are not financially involved - they literally lose all ammunition for their emotional abuse.

What on earth do I do? Why can't I just live my life the way I want and try and build up some semblance of self esteem and a say in my own life. I can't even bloody cut them off because of the guilt of what I know it would do to them both.

You need to go NC, it’s the only way to be happy in the long term.
You’ll continue this cycle of them abusing you, and the detrimental impact on your mental health. Do you want your children exposed to his toxicity?
I know it’s hard I’ve been through it, it’s like a bereavement at first (which I had therapy for). But now I can’t believe it took me so long. You don’t deserve to be treated so poorly and there’s a whole (better) life waiting for you the other side of NC.
If not for you do it for your kids Op.
it is hard though, are parents are meant to love us aren’t they? And society is very confused when I say I don’t have my parents in my life. But having the best mental health and outlook I’ve ever had was worth it... and if I EVER doubt it (incredibly rare), I look at my son who is loved with every fibre of my being and isn’t impacted by my abusive mother.

Parenting styles have changed massively over the past couple of decades. Our parents hit us when we were naughty because that is what THEIR parents did. We are all enlightened now and I think it is unfair to judge our parents by our modern standards.

Also it does sound like they have tried to help you quite a lot financially. This is quite unusual for on here, most parents don’t. If you don’t like the conditions your DF is offering, then don’t take the money.

It sounds like you need to distance yourself a bit from them, but I would not go NC, just try and be a bit more independent.

There it is again, this idea that going NC will make one 'happy'

It rarely does. NC can be extremely stressful and painful (not to mention absolute agony for the majority of parents - not called the nuclear option for nothing, folks)

Sometimes it absolutely is appropriate to go NC. But imo this is the distinct minority: the majority have disordered or difficult parents who love their children but get it spectacularly wrong - at least by today's standards! Leila makes a good point that we harshly judge parenting when we measure it up to today's standards.

Plus who's to say we're getting it right today? Previous generations sincerely thought they were getting it right, reinventing the wheel . I wonder how those insisting on NC will fare when their kids do it to them when the time comes.

You must draw a line, for your sake and the sake of your marriage and your kids.
Break the cycle.
Small weekly goals: grey rock, detach from overthinking (very hard but just try and switch that inner thought process that keeps repeating old scenarios). Set boundaries slowly, shorter visits, more time between them, fewer calls.
Do not accept money from them. It is their hold over you, and you must refuse it with grace. Fake being strong and lean on your lively DH. You must put him first.

You don't need their approval. You don't need to please them. Your posts show how much power you give them through your need to show them love and get their unconditional love. My mother cannot love unconditionally and it took me the best part of fifty years for me to get this. But now I realise the loss is hers. Like a poster said upthread, they are reaping what they sowed. Let them. Move on, look ahead not back. Don't lose your marriage. They will try to drive a wedge between you and DH. But it's not a fight. Just ignore, detach, and don't rise to their bait. It was only when I stopped engaging in the drama, that the drama suddenly stopped.

lovely DH, that should say! But hopefully he's lively too!

Get a copy of susan forwards toxic parents. Its highly recommended on mn.

It feels terribly stressful because you’re right at a crossroads and you’re taking your power and control back. You’re headed in the right direction - keep looking forward! Wishing you all the best.

"Can't"

Yes you can. You will find the consequences of these new actions painful and challenging in the short term. You will make what feel like horrendous mistakes. (Did you parents raise you to be afraid of failure by the way?) But ultimately your choice is to carry on as you always have in which case you'll get the consequences you always have, or to change what YOU are doing (they will never change) and reap the rewards in your own life.

You don't owe them anything. Why? Because children do not ask to be born. You didn't ask then to control and abuse you. You were a child. You were 100% innocent. You did not deserve any of it. You were not to blame then and you are not to blame now.

I bet you anything that your husband sees the situation more clearly than you do. He has the privilege of not having been conditioned by them to accept the abuse. He loves you and it hurts him to see them treat you like this and hurt you. Talk to him. Ask for his support. Admit you need his help to get perspective.

The road to change is a long one but worth it in my experience. You'll get your body mind and soul back, bit by bit.

I should be surprided but im not. People excusing beating small children and emotionally abusing them as 'back in the day'. Not to mention ignoring the sister who is still physically abusive to OP and her newborn and her parents who condone it!

This is not a simlpe 4 months vs 6 months i weaned at because the good health scientific guidelines said so. Not everyone back in the day was an abusive cunt. People chose to be.

So is it acceptable for OP to hit her children and turn them against each other then. After all she learned that from her folks...plenty of us learned wrong from our parents but choose against it not to embrace it.

And no its not quite unusual for parents to offer money or sadly abusive ones. Its just a way to control and try to justify that they are actually good parents deep down.

OP find the stately homes thread. A lot of otgers there will help you.

Same kind of family (in fact I almost thought you were one of my siblings until I read all the detail)

WALK AWAY

I did it ten years ago and it was the best thing I ever did.

You're not ruining their final years. Come on, see that melodramatic statement for what it is - your mother's voice!

Focus you yourself, your husband and your kids. Ask your husband to help you with filtering your parents.

They behave appallingly. And I would bet my bank account that you are now mentally withdrawing from the truth of what you've told us, trying to tell yourself you must be exaggerating or being a spoilt brat.

You are not a brat. Their shitty behaviour did happen. You are going against their wishes and they want to punish you for it. This is not you being 'bad', this is them being pissed off with you for disobeying them. They won't hear your words when you tell them their behaviour is wrong, so you will have to show them in actions.

Withdraw from them. They make you feel horrible and you're not horrible

I understand the confusion and conflict you feel when you think about your parents’ own abusive childhoods.

But you can’t allow the effects of that damage to wreck your present.

Your therapist is right - you must prioritise yourself, your children and your husband.

Hitting kids may gave been the done thing but the fibancial and emofional abuse continues to this day. You dont need it op.

I can't offer any more sage advice than you've already received but just wanted to add one more saying you sound absolutely sane.

Good luck to you, your DH and your children. Focus on your family, not your family of origin.

I wish this had kicked off years ago so I don't have to deal with the fact that their final years will be ruined by me.

you are not ruining their final years by refusing to be controlled by them. Their own behaviour has brought about this situation. You are not responsible for their behaviour.

You are sympathetic to your Mum because you know her own childhood was abusive, but understanding her situation is not the same as allowing her to repeat it with you.

I once heard a very helpful analogy.

if you are talking to someone and the stand on your feet, you move back. If they move forward and stand on your feet again, you move back. Eventually you move to a position where they can no longer stand on your feet. That is OK. It is fine to find a place where you can stand and not be hurt by them. You are not cutting off communication, just getting enough space to keep yourself safe and not get hurt.

I am always surprised at all the NC comments on here. I think it is extrememly hard to go NC with anyone, but you can pull yourself back to a safe space. If that means only seeing them when others are around, or having your phone set to always refuse their number so you can call back at a time that suits you, so be it.

NC is a form of "stepping back" so they can't hurt you. Because it has already proven impossible to engage with them on a limited, self-preservation basis.

Low contact is easier but not when you are receiving dozens of phone calls daily to your work place, emails, letters. Parents telling you things no (adult) child should hear eg about their sex life.

If low contact still leads to a measurable degree of mental and emotional harm on the recipient, NC is justified.

ie some manipulative parents do not understand or respect boundaries. This may helpfully lead to them blowing up and deciding they don't want to contact you because you don't accept their control.

Depends on the circumstances.

My parents blew up at me when I tried to enforce boundaries. They said they didn't want to contact me. Then a year later when they tried to breeze back into my life with no explanation or apology for their bad behaviour, I had discovered my life was far better without them. And said "yeah not interested anymore. Don't contact me". And things continued to get better for me from there.

I mention this as it may be something that happens when OP tries to enforce healthy boundaries on her parents.

I personally find it strange why there is an assumption that some kind of contact with abusers is better than no contact. It depends on the circumstances. But would anyone say you should keep contact with an abusive friend or former partner? Nope....

I understand nomad, for some situations NC may be the only option, but I think it is hard to do practically and emotionally, and low contact is often an option.

Obviously if low contact doesn't work, then NC it is.

I used to think of smacking/hitting being something that was culturally acceptable when I was a child (70/80s). But in recent years I've thought about that differently. It was/is never ok to smack in any way - but OP described beatings leaving bruises. As a parent I find that difficult to forgive. Sod culture/changing times. How do you do that to a child you love and who is dependent on you. What an extreme abuse of trust. If anyone else hurt OP like that surely she'd be told she owes them nothing and they should not be in her life. Eg, if it had happened in a relationship.

OP I think others have explained well that you can understand what leads a person to act as they did but it doesn't make it ok. I hope therapy helps.

There it is again, this idea that going NC will make one 'happy' - I have been NC with my father for 26 years. And my toxic sister for about 7. I have never for a single second doubted what I am doing is right for me and my MH.

If my father dies, I'll be the last to know (or care). In fact, he could be dead already, I wouldn't know. He didn;t deserve my love.

OP - I know it is the 'nuclear' option, but you will never feel strong enough to deal with them unless you take a step or two back. Let them rail at you from a distance; you will be surprised at how strong yuo will feel as they cannot hurt you unless you are there to be hurt (mentally or physically)

I hope the therapy helps.

I took the nuclear option because my family were incestuous perverts.

It certainly made me happier than sticking it out with the Addams Family.

You parents had a chance to treat you nicely when they brought you up, OP. Instead they abused you.

Why do you love them?

And that's the question. tony. She loves them because she knows nothing else, because it's her normal, because she's scared not to, because she has been conditioned to...

The biggest step is seeing that - she doesn't need to 'love them', doesnt have to do as they say without question; the biggest turning point is when she does start to question.

It's painful though, so many questions that are essentially unanswerable unless you throw away all that you knew in childhood, all you thought was right, and loving, and generous...and start to learn what it should have been like.

Like it is for 'normal' people with 'normal' parents who actually do love them, in the right way.

I don’t think you need to do anything so black and white as ‘no contact’ but, I would very much encourage you to avoid contact whilst you’re trying to sort your head out.

Therapy whilst in the situation is much harder than therapy when you have the time, space and emotional distance to be able to really reflect on things and gain insight.

Give yourself that chance, at least.