If you had an acrimonious post divorce relationship with your ExH; how did your DC turn out as teenagers, adults?

[splitbanana1]

NC'd, posting here for traffic

Will try not to drip feed but also do not want to out myself.
Split from Ex, who is now in a relationship with OW (who I knew)
DS is under 10 and is in shared custody - not my choice but endless legal battles and lying & manipulation of system & DS on Ex & OW's part

We are trying to sort out house. Also going through the courts for this. Ex is hiding true financial situation, and wants much more of house than he is entitled too.
I feel like I have to give in financially for a quiet life (for me) but mainly for DS. DS does not discuss his time with Ex; I don't ask and have zero contact with DS or news from Ex whilst he is there.
This is a combination of Intervention by OW and bitterness by Ex (even though he left.)
Background Ex was weak but controlling; passive aggressive and not happy that I have not crumbled since we split, despite his best efforts.

Anyway, back to main point of post. There are some things I can do to expose Ex's true financial situation. Obviously I do not give a monkey's if Ex hates me. However DS is still young, and for up to a decade, I will have to have dealings with Ex over DS, school etc.

Professional advice (therapist / social worker type thing) has suggested that it will be very bad for DS (emotionally / psychologically) If Ex & I have what will effectively be a cold war till DS is 18. Ex also has form for casting me in a bad light and twisting anything I do or say. DS and I are very close. I was a full time sahm till I split from Ex. He is also close to his Dad. I don't badmouth Ex at all, but It is hard to hide my feelings towards him, during the rare times we meet.

So has anyone had this experience of shit relationship with their Ex, and DCs turned out ok, or they got to 18 and refused to speak to either of you again...

Advice / Experiences gratefully received

I think children need to form their own opinion of their parents once they are adults rather than the one their parents would like them to have of each other.

They need to be protected at all costs from accusations, the financials, blame etc.

Your ex is a cunt.
He will be a cunt whether you progress the financial side or not.
He already twists your words and badmouths you.

So - you can give in, and have the same outcome but without the financial solution that is fair to your son and you. Or you can have the money you are due.

Don't think for a minute that you will be able to turn an arsehole like this into a human being, by giving up what you're entitled to.

He'd just find other reasons to bad mouth you.

I've known men bad mouth over finances from women who have walked away with very little. But that very little was still enough for the entitled cunts to posture about.

My best friend's XH regularly told their kids he couldn't afford things because mummy got the house. That she ate one meal a day for a year to afford the full mortgage on, and bought him out of 5 years later. The house she never wanted to buy as it was too £ in the first place - but having been bullied into it by him, was desperate to keep as continuity for kids during divorce and because selling up would have meant new schools in a poor Ofsted area. She suffered for that house. 10 years on, he's still bleating to the kids that mummy got the house. Oh yeah - and to make it happen she gave up a claim on his pension, which at the time was worth 10x the (almost no) equity in the house.

Sounds like your XH is cut from the same cloth, he's going to bad mouth you whatever you do.

It's in the very nature - a man you have to appease financially to put his child first, is not someone who will respond to the appeasement. It's pointless - get your solicitor yo drive it, and insist on what you're due.

Totally separate two things:

• how you get the financial outcome that is fair
• how you manage the stress your XH will put on your son

Having all the stress of a shitty financial outcome for you isn't going to help the latter.

I have/had this. Will be checking back for replies to your post OP...

Yep, I've had this. Mine also stole loads of the equity out of the house he was aiming for me to have (we had a few properties) and did everything he could to claim I didn't need any of his pension.
We also have shared custody, I suspect for no other reason than it meant he didn't have to pay maintenance. I desperately miss the kids when they're on his time.
I do not see him at all, and I don't contact him at all unless absolutely necessary and if I'm legally required to.
It is very much a Cold War. I try not to ask them about their dads time, but sometimes they tell me about stuff they've enjoyed there and I find myself telling them I just don't want to know about their marvellous life I'm not a part of. So there are things I could improve on, but it's very difficult, and, because it's a 50/50 I'm marooned in this town, unable to cast about for better jobs because of geography. I bitterly resent the impact his choices have had on me and my family.
But, like the poster above, how can it improve other than the passage of time? I can improve aspects of the way I interact with my kids, but if I let my guard down and reach out for a better relationship with Ex, I know full well he will see it as an opportunity to take advantage and any information I pass him will be used by him against me somehow.
One of the worst things is having to behave against your own values. I have to treat Ex exactly the way he treated/treats me. This means being uncommunicative, digging my heels in about petty stuff, arguing the toss all the time, when ideally I'd like to be able to discuss things and come to an agreement.
Negotiating civilly never happened during the marriage though, it was always me that caved in and lost out, so why anyone in the same boat thinks this will improve after marriage is beyond me!

On the plus side, I think the kids are quite aware of relationships, and I've become aware that marriage is not actually anything more than a contractual and financial agreement, and I've pointed this out to my teens, and made the point that I absolutely would recommend marriage, because had I not been married in my situation, he'd have stolen everything, and I'd have had nothing, and I would have had no recourse either. Both of them are much more aware of the insidious little emotional games that people play, - something I didn't even notice until I was in my 30's

@Lost

One of the worst things is having to behave against your own values. I have to treat Ex exactly the way he treated/treats me. This means being uncommunicative, digging my heels in about petty stuff, arguing the toss all the time, when ideally I'd like to be able to discuss things and come to an agreement.

This is the crux of it.

I have other personal assets, so can keep the house if i "give in". I will not be in financial hardship; will just need to be a bit careful. It has already been 2 years, and I want to just walk away and never want contact with that cunt (so glad that this is mumsnet and I can use the c word freely )

DS is already very principled at a young age and wants things to be fair. (not about the house; I try not to involve him in "grown-up" discussions, just the way I observe him trying to manage to relationship between me & Ex. Something he should not even have to consider, bearing in mind all the legal & SW safeguards which I have forced to be put in place.) Ex constantly tries to push the boundaries.

I like our area and our house, so that is not an issue for me.
Although I stand to pay out a big chunk of money, I just want my freedom and a hassle free life. Being constantly at war, means that in some way I am still tied to him.

Also, when DS is grown, if Ex tried to play the "poor literally me" card, I can show DS that every thing was split down the middle even if I didn't have to

I think for me there was a 'right then, the gloves are off' moment. You have to weigh up your own self respect, and the respect of your DS for you, against any gain by rolling over and caving in.
My Ex was used to me giving in, and in fact I had long since stopped bothering to even question him by the end of the marriage, so it was easy for him to help himself to as much as possible, and hide it, before dumping me.
Yet, when he tried to the argue the toss over an amount of money he had in his savings account, which I only found out later had been stolen from my future equity, it was enough to make me see red, and I realised that if I let him do what he liked, I would never be able to respect myself again, and in turn, neither would the kids be able to respect me.
In the end, he really didn't get what he wanted, but he did get a fair 50/50 spilt. He probably hid more assets somehow, but you have to draw a line somewhere, and recognise that it costs money to keep pursuing. Take a very cold hearted financial view. That includes the house. It is only bricks and mortar, you may be able buy around the corner, and the house will be 'untainted' by memories. Even if you do want it, bluff that you don't want it, and say you will apply for an order to have it sold. Watch his panic as his only lever over you disappears.
Your average stbxh assumes to his cost that his wife only busies herself with kids and handbags, that her delicate brain is made of mush and cannot cope with man stuff like finance and assetts.
But I work for a living, and most women can drive a very hard bargain....look at your procurement department. Ruthless, they are, and probably staffed by mainly women.

Get what you rightfully deserve and expose everything he's hiding.

I second Ellissandra. It won't make one iota of difference to your life if you don't pursue the financials. He will make your life hell regardless. Get what is rightfully yours and YOUR SONS, and try and support your son as best as you can (which, from your post, becomes very clear you are already doing).

Psyching myself up to do battle with Ex. He has become more a thug sidekick bully goaded by other woman, who has form for vindictiveness.

I am very assertive and confident in RL, but this is so personal, and the pair of them are so unpredictable, it makes me feel a bit ill going up against them, Especially as a lot of people think I should give in for a quiet life. Sometimes I think how did I get into this nightmare.

It takes 2 to break a marriage, but its the bullying I have experienced since we split which has shocked me. I just want to deal a coup de grace after 2 years of legal battles and a guerrilla war, so that I can finally sever all ties with Ex

Not me, but DH had an acrimonious divorce from his first wife. While property wasn't an issue - they lived in a council house and she moved out to live with the OM - she abandoned the kids and then kidnapped them later. Financially she resisted paying maintenance until she was legally ordered to. DH had full custody of his children and she had supervised contact with no overnights. She once told DH in full hearing of the children that they were not his and instead were his brother's. It made them romanticise her in many ways - she hadn't acted like a decent mum but to them she is the best mum ever - but I think part of that is because DH never slagged her off to them, and he didn't have a relationship with anyone until they were much older, 13 and 18 when we got together (I was his first partner since his divorce).

The older one has grown into an irresponsible adult who has never worked and is estranged from both parents after robbing them both blind and being violent towards his fiancee. The younger one is now 31 and is a well adjusted adult who has always worked, is getting married shortly, and is close to both parents.

I know you will probably think I am giving a one sided opinion of the relationship between DH and his ex - I'm not, as it happens we are all good friends now and she has confided in me how awful she was to DH and how she treated him and the kids terribly, and her biggest regret is leaving him for a man who didn't want children and wouldn't entertain having her children live with him.

@Raingods

I have heard this thing about acrimonious divorces & people getting on years later. I cannot quite believe it

sometimes they tell me about stuff they've enjoyed there and I find myself telling them I just don't want to know about their marvellous life I'm not a part of.

Sorry to say it but this is an example of what not to say unless you want the DC to feel guilty and conflicted about being happy with their other parent. My DSS had years of this and it affected his ability to be happy for fear of disapproval, so he had to compartmentalise his life as a coping strategy.

I went through the most acrimonious of splits and had to then suffer ex and OW moving in round the corner from me. I struggled to keep my true feelings about it all hidden from my son and co parented without any communication with his father apart from a calendar.

Last week I posted this in mumsnet because I wanted to share how it is 20 years on:

I had a wonderful Christmas this year. My son, aged 23 and I went out on Christmas Eve for drinks in our local music pub. Everyone from the area where we live was there, (we've lived here for 24 years) including some people that I have cut out of my life after the breakdown of my relationship with my son's father when he took up with a woman (my then friend) and the hell of relationship ending and the discovery of betrayal unfolded. My son was 3 when it all happened.

At the event a woman with whom I had once been close but who told me I should be happy for my ex that he was in love and I should just get over myself when I was at my lowest, came over to chat. My son had a chat with her and I put on my coat to leave, ds stood up with me and said. "Hey mum, I totally get why you don't want to engage with xx, I hope you're ok with me having a quick chat- and gave me a huge hug". On the way home he told me that he and his step brother (OW's son, same age-just days between them) had been talking about their lives and had reflected on how hard it must have been for me over all the years.

We got home and his step brother joined us for supper. We talked and acknowledged that my son's SB is also part of my family, he and I hugged and had a little cry. It was very moving.

20 years ago people said "the kids will grow up and they will know what their parents did- they will understand your pain" and at the time I didn't believe them. But it was true, two lovely 23 year old young men, told me I was lovely and my anger (then) was understandable and that I'd done a great job of getting on with my life. It was probably the most moving moment in my life apart from the birth of my son, to hear her son tell me I was great and he felt part of my family.

Why am I telling you all this? Because I want people who are struggling with messy families to know it can and usually does get better. That our children are not blind, they see and they understand and there are unexpected silver linings that could never be seen when faced with the awfulness of betrayal and loss. Keep on keeping on everyone. Things get better. Happy new year everyone.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3122829-things-really-do-get-better

I totally get all the things you are going through, all I can say is keep on keeping on. Things do get better.

If you let him screw you on the financials your son's everyday living situation will be affected.

Your ex is a piece of shit for not considering that.

As a former poster said he's going to badmouth you regardless so go for the settlement you and your son deserve.

When he's older he'll form an opinion of each of you - he will see dad being bigger and slagging everyone off and you trying to be the bigger person. That matters.

I'm the child of a very acrimonious divorce if you fancied this perspective? I've never been in the same room with both my parents since they split, I didn't invite my father to my wedding as I was worried there would be a scene. And I've turned out fine (I think!!). Good uni education, good job and a happy, stable marriage. If anything, it gave me experience of signs to look out for in men who maybe wouldn't be good for me.

Of course other people will have different experiences, but as a mother if you stay consistent in your love and support your children will still feel stability. Don't forget, plenty of DCs with parents together go off the rails as well, this won't be the defining factor in their future. A horrible situation and hope for the best for you and your kids OP.

This thread has been so helpful with all the different perspectives. I guess I have been grieving the life as a mother (raising DS full time) that the house was secondary. But I have to think about DS long term future. University fees, help with deposit on a flat, because his sting dad will not step up, that's for sure.

flamingo
I loved your comment on the other thread that you wouldn't piss on the other woman if she was on fire. My sentiments exactly
I'm glad your relationship ship with your son and SB turned out so beautifully.

Avocado
Your perspective is so welcome too. DS already is much more aware of relationships than I was even as an adult, when I was with Ex...

Thanks for the support ladies

As someone who ended up paying the ex far more than he was entitled to so that I could move on I would say don't do it. You are effectively pushed back financially and will struggle for years to recover, if you ever do. It will impact on how you live your life now and in the future (think disposable income and pensions for example) all of these things will negatively impact your children.
It also has an impact on you mental wellbeing.

Stand firm and get what you are entitled to, why should any woman compromise their and their children's financial security because their ex is a manipulative dick

You are so welcome. It's a shit time make no mistake but you sound like a fantastic mum that you are thinking your DS in all of this and his future and feelings.

My father was very similar, badmouthing my mother etc. I quickly learnt to take it all with a pinch of salt, she was always there for me so I just didn't believe the rubbish he spouted.

They need to be protected at all costs from accusations, the financials, blame etc.

This.

I am a child of a very acronimus divorce: the battle for assets lasted about ten years. It was awful. The effect riverberates to this day.

My dad was certainly the most unreasonable and my mum felt like you, why should she give in. In the end after ten years they got what it was started with but a lot more was lost. In order o fight their corners they both had to involve us to a certain extent and the hatred for wachother grew. They used things with told them in court which them Damaged relationship. My mum fought to keep the house because of us eventhough we had all left home and we'd have preferred to go back to a smaller one rather than winess this war.

I have to say I have no solution. Because if one side is unreasonable the other has just the choice of losing out or fight in the same way.
I of course would rather go with less than keep fighiting but of course and biased. Plus it is not right.

*reverberated

I am another grown up child from a very bad divorce.
My parents hated eachother still do and they have been divorced for over 30 years both re married.
Every event they have had to be in the same room with eachother my graduation, wedding, kids christenings has caused me great anxiety.
I thought all was fine in the day then I would hear what they were saying to eachother under their breath after wards.
My dad is better than my mum, I grew up with her telling me how horrid he was, how he obviously didn't love us (me) because he ran off, my dad very rarely said anything bad about my mum.
I heard (from my mum) everytime they were in court, every letter she received etc. This was all before the age of 9!
I am closer with my dad now. My mum's bitterness destroyed mine and hers relationship really.
As a child I felt guilty about having fun with the other parent, I felt it was my fault that they had to see eachother because of me and they hated eachother so much.

I am now married with 2 children myself have had problems with my mental health over the years but am doing well now.
I have always said divorce doesn't damage children it's the way that divorce is handled that does the damage if done badly.
You sound like your concern for your DS that you will do your best to minimise any of this which make a you a great mum.

Please do some research on Parental Alienation as this is potentiall what your ex will indulge in. While its lovely to hear that in some families the children work out what went on and reach accurate conclusions, sometimes they do not, especially if their character is anything like the alienating parent. Things sound good for the OP's DS but he might have a wobble or two as a ternager and knowledge is power. :-)

My parents had an bitter divorce when I was 3. Dad left my mum for ow and totally screwed her over financially.

They literally did not speak to each other from the point he walked out. He always paid cm and I had eow with him and ow who he went on to marry. Handovers were done by his mum, my nan.

My mum never spoke bad of him or his second wife. They kept me out of the loop on anything grown up. Of course I grew up knowing that they obviously didn't like each other as they never saw each other. But neither parent made me take sides or make me feel bad about spending time with the other.

They never even spoke to each other all those years. Even at my wedding.

Then I had my first Dc and then suddenly my dad changed. Being a grandad seemed to soften him. He never went on to have any more dc with his second wife, she had a son same age as me and I think they liked there child free time when we were both at our other parents.

When I was 26, and my ds was 1 I met my dad for lunch and he just blurted out that he felt guilt over how he treated my mum all these years. He asked me to pass on a letter to her from him.

And so I did. My mum looked at me in horror as I told her what he said and passed her the letter. I'll never forget her reading it, tears streaming down her face. He apologised for everything he did, said he had been an immature selfish dick and regretted how he had treated her. Said how proud he was of me and what a good job my mum had done practising raising me on her own.

My mum had waited 23 years for that apology. They met for a coffee a few weeks later and he got to say sorry to her face. They hugged and have been on good terms since.

A few years ago he got divorced from his second wife and even spent Xmas with us, my mum included. I'm in my 40s now so they have no need for contact, but they get on well when there is a mutual event type thing.

Relationships are such a complex thing. People change for better and for worse. Sometimes time is a healer, sometimes it isn't.

To see my parents together now you'd never know their history.

Absolutely to not take less than you are entitled to for you and your DC to place your ex or buy him off.

I was stupid enough to do this because my ExH did such a good job of telling me how worthless I was. That was four years ago. Every year since he has messed around with the finances to make sure he claws back something for himself so he can say he has won. This year it looks as if we will be back in court as he had decided he will not pay at all.

Concessions do not buy off bad people. Don't do it!

My dcs are fine despite a very messy, ugly and drawn out divorce. We had to live together for 14 months before the house sold and the kids - then 12 and 15 - were inevitably aware of the poisonous undercurrents, however hard I tried to shield them from them. After we split XDH was appalling for several years, culminating in me spending thousands on family counselling to try to mend his and DDs relationship and to keep DS from being damaged by the fallout.

Now they are 27 and 24 and they have both turned out absolutely fine. XDH has mellowed, got over being dumped and is happily remarried. The DCs see his faults and occasionally complain to me about him but he’s their dad and they love him anyway. They seem to quite like me too. They have healthy attitudes to relationships, or at least not to have been tainted by their experience of our divorce.

My advice would be - let your DS see you acting in a principled, strong way. Stand up for yourself, don’t be bullied, but don’t be vindictive or petty. Think about what you want him to say about you at your funeral and act like that!