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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Do I tell friend and risk friendship

60 replies

truthtruth · 09/01/2018 14:49

Bit of a dilemma.

One of my closest friends, let’s call her B, met a guy a few months back. We were all thrilled for her as she is a wonderful woman who deserves every happiness and he seemed like a great guy and made her incredibly happy.
He recently set up a new business which means he works very long hours and is very stressed. She makes great efforts to see him at place of work (public place with lots of people coming and going, not like an office) and spends all her free time with him.

She invited me and DH to the opening party for the business and throughout the night she became increasingly unhappy at the fact that one of his friends, who she had only been introduced to a few days previously, was also there and getting a lot of his time and attention and had been quite involved in the set-up of the business. When B asked how they knew each other she was very vague and changed the subject. She made no effort to talk to B or anyone else apart from him that night. She left before we did and B went home with him.
The next day she called me in floods of tears to say they had broken-up. She had asked about this woman and he became very angry and started shouting and swearing and B left that morning. I was very shocked as he doesn’t seem the type AT ALL but told her if that was his response to straightforward questions he was clearly hiding something and his response was OTT. She then admitted that he would blow up quite frequently, was often very moody and selfish and was either all over her or very distant. At this stage they had been together less than 2 months so I said have a good cry but chalk it down to a lucky escape.

A few weeks later I walked past the business out of opening hours and he was in there with the friend.

Before I had a chance to tell B I got a message saying he had begged her for another chance, had promised never to behave like that again and was getting help for his anger issues. I said nothing about what I had just seen. Stupid.

After that things were great between them. She was spending all free time with him again, lots of trips to fancy places and talk of their future. Then she said they were spending Christmas together and going on their ‘dream’ holiday. All paid for and booked by him.

We met for a drink a couple of weeks before the holiday and it was clear she was quite unhappy but defensive of him. She said the anger issues were still there but not as bad. That he could be quite possessive and controlling but was trying very hard not to be – it was because he loved her so much and she is so out of his league – and that he was still in regular contact with that friend. She would often wake in the night to find him on his computer saying he couldn’t sleep and was catching up on work but once she had managed to get into it and could see that he was regularly messaging his ‘friend’ in the middle of the night. There wasn’t anything physical going on between them but the messages sometimes very emotional and often about his relationship with her (B), which the friend took very badly. This woman was the one who persuaded him into getting help for his anger and was supporting him through an official MH diagnoses, which B knew nothing about until then.

B said she was very confused and hurt but he bombards her with messages about how much he loves her, how he never thought he would find someone like her, never thought he would fall in love again, that she makes him feel whole and he would do anything to make her happy and for them to stay together and she wants to believe him.

I begged her to take time out to think. She said she would think about it. Next thing I hear they are off on holiday as planned – he had sorted stress at work, cut off the friend completely and was going to prove to her on holiday how much she meant to him.

Dh and I were discussing this over a drink one night over Christmas and DH decided to put his IT skills to use and started googling.

According to this guy he has a long and famous career in his industry. All we can find are half arsed ventures that flopped. He says he has lived in our city for 20 years. Electoral register put him elsewhere in that time. And with a woman we believe is his ex wife. He has told B his doesn't believe in marriage. He also told her he does not want kids. We think, based on some lax facebook settings, that he has one. Who he has never mentioned and does not see. It looks as though his ex-wife lives on the other side of the country and is very happily remarried. His relationship after that, which broke up a while before he met B, started not long after the birth of his child it seems.

B has come back from holiday on cloud 9 and is saying she knows they are going to grow old together and that all the previous behaviour was just fear and insecurity and it’s all behind them. She is literally glowing with happiness. They have been together for 6 months.

How do I even begin to broach this without alienating her? The way she is right now, I don't think she will listen to a word I say. But I can't not say anything.

What would you do MNers?

OP posts:
MadMags · 09/01/2018 18:44

I think you sound a bit over-invested and weird, his friend didn’t actually do anything to warrant being cut off, and your friend won’t listen to anything negative.

smilingeyes79 · 09/01/2018 19:01

I'd probably play the long nice card. Maintain contact, initiate meals as a group etc, overtime you or your OH could ask him a few questions in the open, see how he reacts. Your friend doesn't want to hear the truth atm but maybe dropped over time the rise tinted glasses will fall off

truthtruth · 09/01/2018 19:12

Mags, I get that. But I have seen how she has swung from deliriously happy to miserable and back again whilst she been with this man in a very short space of time. She deserves to be happy with a man who treats her right. Blowing anger one minute and undying love the next is not that.

As to the friend - he cut her off. He wasn't asked to, he said she was bitter and out to cause trouble. I don't know the ins and outs of their relationship but she is very unhappy that he is with my friend and has made no effort to try to get to know her.

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DancesWithOtters · 09/01/2018 19:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mindutopia · 09/01/2018 20:43

I do think you need to tell her. Maybe not everything about his career and where he's lived, but at the least about being previously married and having a child he has no relationship with. That's a massive red flag if it hasn't come up in 6 months and she has no idea. It's not quite the same, but when my mum met my dad, he lied and told her he was 5 years younger than he was. No obvious reason why. He wasn't significantly older than her. She wasn't underage (both in late 20s). He was just insecure and selfish and dishonest and had no empathy for how a little lie like that might make her feel. I don't think she found out for like a year! Pretty silly, but it was very characteristic of what their relationship was like. A big deal often made of petty things and at her expense. They divorced when I was 8 and we were much better off without him. Definitely tell her. If it damages your friendship, then she wasn't that committed to it anyway and she likely will eventually come back once she's had enough of him.

truthtruth · 09/01/2018 21:08

Thanks Mind. That's interesting what you said about your dad - when we spoke before Christmas she said he once commented that he had no empathy so found it hard to understand or be sorry when people were upset, and that some of the things he would blow up about were really small but he made them out to be huge.

OP posts:
browneyes77 · 09/01/2018 21:25

Years ago by partner at the time was seen kissing another woman by mutual friends.
The lads all decided to keep schtum, but one of the girls who was my friend decided I should be told. She was petrified of telling me, but she felt she had to do it.

It was a huge shock when she told me, but I've always told her how grateful I was that she had the bollocks to come tell me what others (including her own brother) wouldn't.
It hurt at the time but I needed to know.

She had seen this happen however with her own eyes. Witnessed what had happened and the others finally confirmed it too after she'd told me. So I never had any reason to disbelieve her (and I was able to confront my then partner with definitive proof of what he'd done).

What you have seen is a number of things and come to your own conclusions. Things that there's always a possibility you could be wrong about. If you do tell her, then I'd make sure you have proven, factual things you can go through that you know to be true.

I doubt she'll be happy that you've been snooping on her partner behind her back. The businesses you can explain, but the Facebook thing etc is blatant detective type snooping.

Also be prepared for this to backfire. If she's that loved up, she might not even believe you and it could drive her further to him. If she tells him what you've done and he is able to explain everything to her satisfaction, he could use it to get her to cut you off completely and you may never get her friendship back once he has a stronger hold on her.

Tread very carefully. If you feel you need to tell her do so, but make sure you are 100% correct in facts, have definite proof he can't squirm out of and brace yourself for the possibility of losing your friend.

truthtruth · 09/01/2018 21:33

I called her and before I could say anything she announced they are moving in together. He is moving into her flat. Makes sense as they already spend all their time together and the holiday showed how compatible they are. She's chattering away like it's christmas morning come again.

OP posts:
SantaClauseMightWork · 09/01/2018 21:46

Why are you dragging it for so long? I would be very happy to have you as a friend. Can you not bring down all the proof in printed form, without showing her off how your OH did it?
Or you can send it to her anonymously. If the prof is so undeniable, why not do this?
Do this before she is pregnant or something FFS.

truthtruth · 09/01/2018 21:47

He has stopped the anger management sessions as he doesn't think he needs them anymore. He thinks a lot of his stress came from his friend and her unhappiness at the relationship and was making him guilty and insecure and irritable. Now that she is off the scene, things will be fine. Jesus.

OP posts:
Faking · 09/01/2018 21:50

There are so many red flags, and you, op, seem to be waving a couple, too. Are you sure that you & your husband aren't laughing behind her back? I could be wrong but your post sounds v smug.

And if you've gone to all that effort to snoop ('FBI' style Hmm) and your intent is benign; surely, you would tell said friend straight away, no? As what good is it you knowing, when she is the one that needs enlightening? Except to gloat? Confused. Sorry, but you all sound a bit red-flaggy, including your star-struck mate.

I hope I'm wrong.

truthtruth · 09/01/2018 21:55

Faking, I promise you I am very far from smug or laughing at her. She is one of my closest friends and I would love nothing more than to be wrong and for all of this to serve me and my snooping right.

We found all of this out when she was on holiday and like a PP said, I may be jumping to conclusions or have my wires beyond crossed so I wasn't going to ring her up and say 'btw..'. She has only been back a couple of days which is why its come to a head now.

OP posts:
Faking · 09/01/2018 22:05

Then tell her...yes, she will shout, scream, etc at you...but you would be potentially saving her from a load of bullshit. And a load of heartache! By not telling her, you are watching her fall for the bs and heartache. And as I can't imagine such fucked up dynamics reaching a happy ending, she will want to know why you and Mr FBI kept quiet.

truthtruth · 09/01/2018 22:15

She's now pissed off at me because I'm 'down' on their happiness - I asked if she's sure and why doesn't she wait a bit. Reminded her of how unhappy she was before the holiday and of his anger issues that won't have been cured by a couple of weeks of sun and no stress. He is blaming all of his behaviour on the friend and she's going along with it.

OP posts:
Figrollsnotfatrolls · 09/01/2018 22:20

Well I doubt he can keep his cool for long. Living together will bring a load more new /stressful situations for them both.

springydaffs · 09/01/2018 22:28

Two people warned me about my stbh. At the time I genuinely didn't know what they could mean - I assumed they were jealous.

How I thank those women from the bottom of my heart that they had the courage to say something, even tho I didn't hear it at the time. During the dark dark days of my horrific marriage their words were a beacon to me which eventually led me out.

Tell her. Even if she doesn't hear. Even if you lose her. Are there a group of you? You could play good cop/bad cop ie make sure some friends keep shtum but stay in her life.

ShatnersWig · 09/01/2018 22:33

Told you she wouldn't want to listen.

All you can do is be there when it goes tits up. If you choose to. I do think in your shoes if she wants to continue the friendship you have to agree not to discuss him and their relationship whatsoever, or it'll drive you mad. She probably won't agree to it and disappear off. That's her choice.

She'll be back when she learns the truth and needs you. If you choose to.

NotSureThisIsWhatIWant · 09/01/2018 22:34

I wouldn’t say anything until she is upset again. That is the time when she may be more open to listen.

You don’t need to tell her what you found out, you just need to point her in that direction.

If you are openly against him, she will stop listening.

Ohyesiam · 09/01/2018 22:37

It will all fall apart quite soon I imagine. All you can do is be there for her, which it sounds like you will be.

userxx · 09/01/2018 22:39

I'm going to agree with shatners, he is spot on. I have a friend who is with a complete dick head but she can't or won't see it. Just be there for her when it goes wrong because it will.

dreamies · 09/01/2018 22:41

Difficult situation for you op. I like the idea of anonymously sending her the info, she will have what she needs to know without the messanger being shot.
However, as someone who was sucked in by a compulsive liar who I now believe to be a sociopath, she won't listen. He sounds very dodgy if not disordered himself, he will lie his way out even with faced with evidence.
I had warnings, I didn't listen. As a good honest person I just couldn't comprehend the lies. Cognitive dissonance plus master manipulator.
Be there for her when this goes tits up, which it will, probably quite badly.

Missonihoni · 09/01/2018 22:42

Wouldn't even bother she will just cut you out.

I did something similar however what I found was very serious. Told said friend. Said friend did not believe me asked bf about it and he twisted lies.

She then stopped talking to me.

Honestly just distance yourself from it she won't believe you or he will just manipulate her. It's pointless women are fools !

ShatnersWig · 09/01/2018 22:46

Never ceases to amaze me how people can't be arsed to read a full thread. Really no excuse when it's not quite two full pages FFS

TheCraicDealer · 09/01/2018 23:07

Typically I'd agree with the poster that said, "she has enough data". She definitely, definitely has enough to go on to realise something isn't right and that she needs to get shot of him. But I think something like a hidden child is different. Even if she doesn't want to know then at least her world won't be blown apart years down the line when she sees a letter she wasn't supposed to find from the CSA or a solicitor, or said child turns up on the doorstep.

I'd probably print the stuff out and post it to her tbh, or send the links via email as suggested. Maybe give her the heads up that you've sent her some information you think she should be aware of, and if she doesn't want to discuss it that's fine but you couldn't in all conscience not tell her before they move in together. It's harder to bury your head in the sand when you physically have the information in your hands. But be prepared for her to gloss over all this latest shit as well because that's what WILL happen.

I have to look people up sometimes like this for work and it's surprisingly easy to do. All you need is a name, approximate age and location- even easier if you know what they look like and can pic them out in friend's fb pictures. Companies House, Facebook, local newspapers, 192.com. There's a lot of easily located info on the web, especially if you're a Del Boy type character opening and folding businesses like no tomorrow.

truthtruth · 09/01/2018 23:07

She hung up on me and is not answering texts now either - said she was sorry she ever told me anything and I am blowing what she said out of proportion. They are moving in together and that is the end of it and if I don't have anything good to say, I can 'fuck off to where that other miserable cow is' - meaning his friend. This is so out of character for her. She is the kindest, most level headed person I know.

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