Dating and when to DTD

[Karsul]

So, I've been dating a woman I feel passionately about for a few months now (met through OLD, both in our mid-forties if that makes any odds) and I have to admit I'm quite smitten by her.

We've connected amazingly well on many different levels, mentally, emotionally and intellectually, but sex hasn't happened yet - we haven't progressed beyond kissing.

Now, I totally respect that she may not be ready yet and I'm happy to wait but, here's the question - is there a danger that she will start seeing me as nothing more than a friend if it doesn't happen soon?

For additional context, we've had some text and telephone banter about sex, I don't believe there are any medical issues at play but, in person, there doesn't seem to be any real interest on her part, e.g. running my hands over her clothed body has produced zero reaction from her.

So, do I stick with a woman I most definitely want a relationship with and just accept she is on a different timescale to me or do I have to accept that I may have screwed something up that I am not aware of?

I don't think you'll have screwed anything up.

I think it's just her. But I do think it's unusual to have reached mid-forties and not want to have sex with someone you've been seeing for a few months.

You could just have a conversation with her, I mean, she is going to have a better idea of why she thinks/feels/behaves the way she does than anyone on here.

Thanks Peace - a conversation seems like the obvious answer but whenever sex comes up she likes to change the subject quite quickly. I don't know if that is nervousness, embarrassment or a red flag and hence I'm struggling to figure out how to broach the subject

I think you need to ask her outright.
Is she in this for the friendship or does she want a proper relationship with you that involved intimacy.
If she changes the subject again then move on.
I usually have a 3rd date rule if I really like someone.
I'm nearing 50 and want to make the most of it.

Well if she won't talk about it then it could be a red flag, regardless of the reasons for it. Largely because a) it's only sex and b) it's not going to get any better if it's not talked about.

How have you approached it before if there has been sexual banter on the phone and via text?

Is there something in your approach that is making her feel uncomfortable do you think? Or does she just not want to talk about sex? How did she respond to the 'banter'.

Hells - I don't want to come across as a horny old man but I'm with you - I'm not a first date kind of guy but I've never waited this long either!

Peace - she engages with the banter for a short while then changes subject, as if she's nervous(?) She's kind of implied that it will happen later, without ever defining when later will be.

As for my approach, I guess the only thing I've picked up on is that I am talking about sex way less now than with anyone I've ever dated previously so I doubt I'm being pushy or creepy.

Talk to her and make it clear that you're talking about it with her because you find her very attractive. Hopefully that will be attractive to her too and help her to overcome any embarrassment.

I know that sounds obvious but some men act like they want sex because it's sex. This always makes it feel like it's about them more than it is you if you're on the receiving end...!

I think 3rd or 4th date too. A conversation about sex is something she should want to have.

I've been seeing someone for a few months and he and I talk quite openly about sex and what we like/don't like, want/don't want. I'm not particularly confident in myself, but, like Hells, I'm also too old to be messing about and wondering and not knowing.

Half the fun of sex is talking about it! Well, maybe not half... no, probably half...

But if sex is something that is important to you (and it's fine if it is) and it isn't really at all important to her, then it is going to cause huge problems down the line.

Maybe it's been a long time and she's nervous I think you need to have a conversation about it

Apples - I do tell her she's attractive as I like to give considered and meaningful compliments. I don't see sex as the be all and end all - it's one piece of a much larger picture and I hope that's how I've come across. I would also like to think that she has picked up on the fact that her comfort and enjoyment is of paramount importance to me.

Peace - I hear you about the talking about it part - I definitely enjoy that too and, as someone who writes erotic fiction, I think I'm reasonably good at making it fun without it becoming tawdry. I guess my openness vs her reticence to talk is a large part of the problem I'm perceiving.

I can't say I find talking about sexual preferences at all fun, especially with someone I've not had sex with. To me that would be awkward and uncomfortable. I'd rather just try it out and see if we were compatible than discuss it theoretically. I wouldn't wait that long either, though, so a potential partner would not be left wondering.

I agree with hellsbells that banter and hints are getting you nowhere and you should just have an adult conversation along the lines of "Do you want a relationship?"

I definitely would not want to talk about sex with someone who thinks he is really good at it because he writes erotica. That would be a major turn-off :D

(Convinced in my mind now that OP is Rocky Flintstone.)

Can I ask what you do do with her?

Kiss, touch etc ?

Haha, definitely not Rocky Flintstone :-)

I'm a reasonably good writer but I am well aware that has no bearing on real-life performance which is very much down to compatibility and desire to please each other :-)

Besides, I haven't even tried writing in that style with her anyway - I think that might push her away.

Ah, I wonder if we might be getting somewhere... I wonder whether your openness is intimidating to her then. Especially if you're not just open to talking to it, but quite adept at creating 'erotic scenarios' and consdier yourself to be "reasonably good at making it fun without it becoming tawdry".

People are different and some women might want someone who is very adept at sex and others might want someone who still has things to learn with them.

So, for example, the man I'm seeing is younger than me and has had a similarly chequered relationship history - he hasn't had a lot of good quality sexual experiences. Sex with him is great! Not because he is sexually very accomplished, but because he is quite the opposite. There are still firsts for both of us and we are growing together. Sex happens between us with both of us.

My experience of men who feel they are quite good at sex (doing it, talking about it, writing about it, whatever) is that they make you feel that sex is being done to you rather than with you.

I find sexually confident men a complete turn off. I like there to be a bit of vulnerability there because I feel vulnerable.

It might be that she finds you attractive and has a bit of an internal conflict between being attracted to you and enjoying the 'banter', but then something is said that reminds her that you are very accomplished at this and it's just part of your 'game' and she is just the latest woman to be on the receiving end of it and that makes her feel less special.

I don't know, of course, but I wonder if that sounds like it could be an explanation to you?

If it is the case, there probably isn't much you can do about it because you can't help your experiences and she can't help her preferences.

Chris - we've only kissed. Whenever I've tried to lead to anything beyond that I get zero reaction whatsoever so I stop.

I can't say I find talking about sexual preferences at all fun, especially with someone I've not had sex with

Oh of course, would only want to have the conversations with someone I was already in a sexual relationship with.

I think things are being/have been said that have just shut her down to you sexually.

If she's not responding to you passionately when you kiss or hold her, then she's probably not interested. You need to have the conversation - "are you attracted to me? Or do you just want friendship?".

Flipping heck. 40 here. Sounds like she might have a low sex drive. You really need to talk to her.

A big difference in sex drive can break a relationship.

Peace - Hmmm... it's very difficult knowing how someone else perceives you but I don't think I'm being intimidating as I don't push sex onto the agenda in our conversations at all and I certainly don't think I am necessarily good at it - I've had a few relationships but only ever enjoyed great sex with one person in my life.

Do I come across as sexually confident? I don't know, I think the opposite may be true, though I definitely have no qualms about talking about it.

If I've shut her down, are you suggesting it's time to move on? I really don't want to because I see sex as a part of a relationship, not the defining quality (it may seem otherwise from this post but it really is the only sticking point in an otherwise great union to date).

As for talking about sexual preferences, what little chat there is is typically initiated by her - I guess I may have subconsciously already taken the hint that she's not really interested in me that way?

Yes, could be a bit offputting if she feels like you are hugely experienced and she is not. Though I now have an experienced, confident partner and it turns out to be great :D

I'd also assume that she doesn't want to have sex with you yet. Maybe she is being coy about it because of embarrassment or shame that she hasn't managed to overcome even after several months, e.g. from an embarrassing condition, or from a really bad experience. Otherwise I'd expect someone to at least coyly say that they like to wait a long time before jumping into bed with people.

In any case it's all speculation until you communicate with the woman and asks what she wants.

Of course it is impossible to know how you are perceived by someone else unless they tell you, but she might perceive having no qualms talking about it as being sexually confident.

I can only speak for myself, but once I'm 'shut down' to someone absolutely nothing will change that. I don't know if other women are the same.

I do think the only way you are going to progress with this, in either direction, is to talk with her.

You might see sex as part of a relationship and not the be all and end all but, at the moment, it isn't any part of it. After a few months of a sexless relationship, and no conversation about it, it isn't going to change on it's own.

If I were in your shoes, I would be sitting her down for a "we've been seeing each other for a few months, where do you see this relationship going?" conversation. And be honest about it. Wanting sex in a relationship isn't wrong. And, if she isn't willing to even have the conversation, then it would be over for me.

I'd ask it like hellsbells said: "Are you looking for friendship or would you like a lover?" - if you are actually interested in staying friends, of course. It suggests that those are two equally valid options, and there's nothing wrong with her just wanting friendship.

A bit more context - she did tell me that she hasn't had sex for a few years and, thinking abut that, it may be a valid factor. She also said she has an incredibly sex drive though which leaves me thinking she wants sex, just not with me.

Good idea ravenmum - I really do need some clarity on whether to stick or walk away because I'm just really confused right now.