To move abroad for DH career

[Peggy21]

My husband is unhappy at work but has been offered a very good opportunity to work in the Far East where he speaks the language (his mother comes from there) and he lived there as a child. He obviously wants to go. It’s for a 2 year assignment.
We have two children aged 6 months and 3 years.
My feeling is I don’t want us to relocate; my mental health when pregnant wasn’t great and it’s only now I feel back on an even keel. My worry is that he will be working hard and probably travelling internationally and I will feel isolated and alone with the kids. He does travel for work and I feel quite panicky sometimes when he is overseas. My parents are great and come and help and I rely on them practically and emotionally.
It seems we have a dilemma. I hate to feel I am holding him back and he gets fed up of living in the uk and is often restless to experience new things. I on the other hand feel like I’m just keeping my head above water looking after two children and that’s with family and friends in the same country. I’ve struggled with anxiety, specially away from home and I guess my ultimate worry is that I won’t be able to look after my kids properly as I would want to away from my support network.
Does anyone have any advice for this kind of thing? I don’t want DH to resent me but I think I would really struggle with this.

You could get a nanny when you get there everyone will have one and you can socialize more easily?

I would jump at this chance but obviously it depends on your circa and doesn't sound ideal for you?

Can your parents come and stay with you whilst he is travelling? Might be a great time for you all?

he gets fed up of living in the uk and is often restless to experience new things

He should have thought of that before he decided to marry and live in this country and have children.

Do NOT relocate to somewhere where you have no support network. Be different perhaps if your children were older and you hadn't had anxiety issues. If he is unhappy with work then he looks for another job locally rather than abroad.

At the age of your children I would consider going ...BUT I'd need to ensure I could get some support/help out there. Getting househelp in the far East is the norm.

Also ... it means you become fully financially dependent ..but it looks like that's
the current situation anyway.

Things to consider

What is the medical package?
Are they paying for any trips home?

What of school or nursery costs?

Is it a place where women are treated close to equal and not like 2nd class citizens.

Is there an expat community over there?

My Dsis lived in the far East and I have to say her life seemed so relaxed.... she went for her DHs job...but she was working pt as well.

Have you expressed your concerns to him?

We moved abroad when my kids were 18 mths and nearly 4. It was the best thing I ever did - walked straight into a fantastic social life with other expats, who are on the whole really welcoming and supportive as they all know what it's like to leave home and loved ones far away. It was stressful packing up the house and the first few weeks were a bit of a fog but it was the best move of my life.

HOWEVER - DH was relocating with a big company who had a great support structure in place. I did not have to worry about visas, shipping agents etc, we got loads of local advice about which doctors, schools, areas to live in, security, customs etc.

And I have no anxiety or history of PND.

I think your DH is being quite selfish insisting on this move if you are fragile. He needs to realise that if you can't manage over there and it becomes a 'failed assignment' then he is risking his job AND his marriage.

You need to have a frank discussion about why you BOTH might want to do this, and what exactly is in place for YOU when you get there. In my experience, DH just moved from one office to a different one, and I was left to sort out housing, schools, moves and settle everyone in. It's a lot harder for the supporting partner in so many ways.

There are bound to be online expat groups in your destination town - have a google and see what you can find, or post on the Living Overseas site on here.

Good luck.

For two years...no. You need your ‘nest’ now. I understand that some people can be globe trotters with babies in tow with no problem. But if that is not you then that is your truth. Don’t pretend it isn’t.

Personally, I would not be able to do this. Dh uprooted us when I had 2dc 3m and 20m. We relocated 5 hour drive away (to university town). It was hard- I had no help and resorted to day care for a bit for my toddler. (Not that there is anything wrong with daycare-until ds was bitten)
That was for a year. Many years later, a few months after the birth of our third, he wanted to do a temp assignment overseas. I felt the surge of stress and couldn’t sleep for a week dreading it, so I said no. I offered for him to go on his own-he declined.

If you will be alone over there with his coming and going...well, it would be better if you are alone over here and have the support of your parents.

Is he making this a deal breaker for your relationship? Does he want out and then conviently blame his work?

You are not responsible for his happiness.

Only do it if underneath the anxiety you have at least a bit of curiosity and excitement about living in a different country and you are 100% sure that you could bring your children back independently at any point if you wanted to.

I've just returned from 4 years overseas. There is a lot to be said for it. The weather, the ready made expat social life. But you need to be mentally strong. It's not at all as easy and glamorous as some people like to make out. It can be isolating, frustrating, confusing. Having a nanny might sound great. The reality is that you are left sharing your private space with a stranger, being surrounded by adults dependant on you in your own home.
It's highly likely you'll find an amazing nanny. You'll be able to go out to the cinema, to dinners etc at the drop of a hat knowing your children are well looked after.
You'll get the opportunity to visit amazing places and have eye opening experiences.
But o make the most of all that you have to want it on some level. So that you can be positive and proactive on a day that is hot and dusty, maybe you're home sick, but you know it's just short term so you actively want to make the most if it.

Many many expat lead happy and successful globe trotting lives. But in my experience it's because they really want it, so easily get through the frustrating and difficult times.

We had a great time, but I wouldn't have the energy to do it again. Everyone is different. Don't feel obliged to be excited just because others would jump at it.

I hate to feel I am holding him back
Did you have a career and does your DH feel that, by you raising children, you're being held back? Or does ambition only apply to him?

he gets fed up of living in the uk and is often restless to experience new things
Tough shit. He's got commitments in the UK with his family now. If he's the restless type he should've stayed single and child free.

Did you have a career and does your DH feel that, by you raising children, you're being held back? Or does ambition only apply to him?

Really good question

If this was me and my DH I would be up for it; I have anxiety too and a history of depression and I'd be very stressed and anxious about it initially, but we are used to living in a city without any family around to support us, and we have lived abroad for a year before and I was not homesick (actually, he was - we moved for my studies). I loved it and I would jump at the chance to live abroad for a short period of time like 2 years again. There are many difficulties but many, many benefits.

However as I say I am used to living without a lot of family support, I enjoy travel and desire to live in new places, I love learning languages and tend to learn them quickly, etc. Obviously you don't feel similarly to me and that's totally acceptable and fine as everyone is different and I can understand why moving abroad to the far east even just for two years is not something that appeals to everyone. I can't really offer advise other than you need to talk about this all with your DH and make a decision together about it

Also, my dad is from abroad so I do get the "gets fed up of living in the UK" thing - my dad's lived in the UK most of his adult life now and longer than anywhere else and is well settled here, married to my British DM, has had UK citizenship for many years now, has me and my two siblings and my baby is on the way etc, but I think no matter how settled you are when you live somewhere away from your native country, you do miss it. You miss the nature, the culture, the family and friends, the language, and you never ever stop missing it. But when you make a decision to marry someone from a different country, in that country, you have to accept your situation and get on with your life. I also think it's often a 'grass is always greener' scenario. My dad has these amazing fantasies sometimes about what his life would have been like if he'd stayed in his home country or returned after his studies like was the initial plan before he met my DM - but I'm positive all those fantasties are bollocks and his life would have been nothing like how he imagined. It's just wishful thinking.

Personally, I would go. It's only for 2 years and would be a wonderful experience with two small children, assuming you feel confident enough being on your own when he's traveling or could travel with him. But this is coming from a place of not having recently had any postnatal mental health issues and you need to know for sure that you have the support you need. I moved abroad for my husband when we got married (we are from different countries and met as expats in a third country where we were working). When we had our first, I knew no one here. No friends, no family, I could barely even drive and had just gotten my license here before our dd was born. It was a steep learning curve at times, but actually having small children is a good way to meet people and gave me an excuse for getting out of the house. Would there be a way to delay the move until you are a bit more on your feet? I'm not sure how much you feel like you are on top of your mental health needs right now. Would things be better in a few months? And what would you be doing if you stayed in the UK? Would you be going back to work? Would your career suffer with a 2 year hiatus? Or do you plan to be a SAHP? If you wouldn't be missing much in your own career at the moment, I would think this was as good a time as any before you get dug back in to take a few more years out and see a bit more of the world. It's unlikely it will be easy to do again once your older one hits school age. But really you have to be totally sure and it sounds like you aren't at this point and I think it has to be mutual if you're going to make such a big change.

Is it somewhere plagued with air quality issues?
Is it somewhere on the "Expat circuit" - which can be easier to mix into, as there is flux, and everyone remembers being the new arrival, or somewhere that's is family orientated and it will be hard to drop into?
Will you be loosing out on the possibility of going back to work? Or is SAHM likely for a while?
Is it somewhere with a "Nanny culture" and would a maid or Nanny appeal or horrify you?
What is the total package like? Would it fund you keeping your house in the uk, and maybe bouncing between the 2 countries for 2 years?
Is it likely to be extended past 2 years, in which case what is schooling like out there?

If you are prepared to reveal the location, come over ro the "living overseas" board, and see if there is someosomeone already out there that could guide you as to lifestyle.

We jumped. It's been tough, but also an amazing opportunity for the kids (and we live in a place hated by Mumsnet)

I moved abroad with a 3yo and 6 months pregnant, also to Asia. However I love travel and being an expat, was an expat when I met my dh and we've clocked up 10 international moves in 20 years, I've worked in each country.

It's not for everyone, I know many marriages that have crumbled under the strain. Only you can know whethere this is for you.

Thank you so much for all your responses. Lots to consider. It’s actaully Japan - Tokyo probably. So not really an expat place although there are plenty there I’m sure. Would probably have to downsize into an apartment. I think there are laws in Japan to prevent the live-in Asian maid/nanny culture (but I could be wrong on this). Also the nanny thing doesn’t appeal unless it’s while we are at work.
Yes I’ve negotiated a really good part-time back to work arrangement so I would have to quit. I guess I could find work out there.
I’ve lived abroad (Europe) before where I spoke the language but that was when I was younger and much more carefree! I don’t really feel like upping sticks with two small kids but it is an opportunity, specially for my DH. Having said that, he would have to retrain for the job as it’s in a different field and would have to start up a business from scratch on his own. So it’s a bit unknown. He’s a ‘why not?’ type and I’m a ‘what if?’! I find myself worrying about it but don’t want my anxiety to hold us back.

Your last few sentences in your last post changes my viewpoint completely. If you were going with a multi-national, with experience in supporting a young family a long way from home - sounds interesting, let's talk. But a re-training /setting up on business scenario - no way in hell. I can't re-call off hand the proportion on new businesses which fail, but its high; how can he seriously be suggesting taking you all over to Japan to set up a new business, in which he wont have a track record. And if it's just for 2 years, he will barely have got going before it's time to come back. It just doesn't sound right to me

I wouldn't assume you would be able to get a job in Japan without a bit more research - some countries (including the UK I think) don't necessarily allow spouses to work on their partner's visa. Can you speak Japanese ? Have you been there? It will certainly have changed since your DH was a child living there

I'm struggling to understand what you're saying about his job. Would he be employed to set up something new over there, or would he be working for himself?

Realistically if you're in an apartment in Tokyo there won't be space for your parents to visit, which would mean a very expensive trip for them. Would they be able to afford this?

A different aspect: if things break down between the two of you, you might find yourself stuck there, you can’t just ‘pack the kids’ and leave. It happened to a friend of mine who came ro the UK, left her whole support network and practically stays in a relationship as she can’t face the legal battle. This may never happen in your case bit worth considering.

Sorry for the confusion: it’s to start up a branch of his present company out there. He would be a one man band at the beginning. So he would still be employed by them but in a completely new role. The first guy they offered it to who is experienced turned it down. It would be more money and a really interesting direction for him.

Could he go and you stay.? It's only two years, if he could afford to travel back regularly? Seems a lot for you to give up going back to work for something quite risky.

Japan is a very male centred culture, my DH has been a few times and was quite shocked by how far down the pecking order women come. Language is an issue too, it’s not like going to say Amsterdam where vast amounts of people speak fantastic English or even say Hong Kong. It’s a very very different scenario and I think you should get on some expats boards and get the lie of the land OP . It is also expensive flights wise, you can’t keep nipping back home etc

It's sounding more ominous by the minute.
Can your DH talk to the more experienced guy and find out why he turned down the offer.

From my understanding of Japanese culture, personal contacts are very important and the way these are developed and maintained is with a lot of work socialising. Your DH will have to be working really hard to develop these contacts for a new start up, even with a big name multi-national behind him. So he will be out late a lot. Leaving you alone a lot.

It might be worth starting a thread on here asking for information on work patterns, possibility of work for you, where to live etc. Not sure which section though

From what you have said, you don't want to go and shouldn't. Could he go for two years and visit home regularly? Otherwise, he shouldn't go. You can't start a family in one country and expect them to be uprooted whenever you have itchy feet.

Oh. I was about to say yes, amazing opportunity, go for it, that as if it was for a big company with the relocation and a big job in a big company thrown in.

This sounds like too much of a risk, I wouldn't go! (I relocated to the US for 2 years on a whim when I was younger so not usually the cautious type!)

I lived in Japan for 2.5 years. I loved it. You can sign up for free Japanese lessons and the people are polite, friendly and if english language students, v willing to test their English on you.

However I was single, childless and could work the hours I wanted. Yes, you could get part time teaching work if you could get the visa requirements beforehand but you have young children. You won’t have the flexibility to work like that if your DH is setting up a new satillite office with all the graft and socialising that goes with it.

I’m currently a trailing spouse who is retaining my career over here. My DH held back his career for so long so we took the plunge to move when he was offered a huge promotion with double the money. But I’m in an English speaking country and I still find it bloody lonely. You miss family. Especially at Christmas plus they use 4 different alphabets there, predominantly kanji and hiragana. Shopping and finding your way around would be a complete shock to you plus the food would be very different in simple things like milk or bread just tasting much sweeter or different. It would be difficult to adapt to Japan in 2 years - it took that long for the language to “click” with me. Before that I struggled. My social life was around my students plus the small foreign workforce/student community - the latter tended to be early 20’s no kids demographic. As for work patterns, I was leaving for work at 0645, finished by 2000. Then I would go out, eat and probably be home early around 2100, and on a bad night anywhere between 2300-0300, especially if the Shachou was visiting (company boss/president). A lot of business relationships are built more by the socialising in the evening. If you do go, make him get the equivalent of sky/cable as there is no English terrestrial tv, investigate where you’ll be living - very probably an apartment. Do you own your own home so would you sell up? There are lots of questions you will need to be answered for an informed decision here.

My advice is "no." I have experience moving internationally with young children with my DH's job, and we have several international couples in our circle of friends. My reasons are:

1. Your children are very young and you are already struggling with depression / anxiety. Moving at all increases the risks to your mental health. Moving away from your support system makes it worse, adding in a different culture makes it even worse. It's a recipe for you to lose your mind.

1. Your marriage is already strained with different goals/dreams. Imagine that you move, and it just does not work for you in huge ways, but he wants to stay. You would be trapped. Your ability to take the kids and leave would depend on the laws there. There are women who end up divorced (because their husband screwed around or whatever) but have to stay in the country they relocated to for his job because they can't take the kids and leave. I know another woman who moved back to her home county without her only child, after her husband had an affair with a work colleague.

1. Don't assume you will be able to work there, or that any one will hire you part time. You have no idea what will happen. You have a great deal set up where you are, and walking away from it could make it very difficult to reenter the work force at a later time.

1. Moving internationally adds some elements to a relationship that are red flags for abusive / controlling relationships. I don't mean that all spouses driving these moves are abusive / controlling, just that there is a weird overlap that can play into an unhealthy dynamic

. For example, isolation. The move would isolate you by not only by taking you away from all friends and family, but also by putting you where you don't speak the dominate language but he does. Abusers isolate their target.

Another example is that everything will revolved around him and his job and what he needs. Obviously, your needs won't come into the planning (or else you would stay where you have support and a job). Again, this is a dynamic is abusive / controlling relationships, and international moves can easily play into it.

If a marriage is 100% healthy, then the two people can fight against those kinds of things to make it truly work for both people, but if a man has ANY controlling / abusive tendencies, an international move just gives him a great excuse to treat his wife badly.

Because your husband already lacks empathy for what you are going through, I think it is highly likely that your needs will not be considered if you move.

Your biggest concern seems to be that if you don't so this, he will resent you. Why isn't your biggest concern your emotional health? Or that you will resent him? Or that it will make it harder to restart your career? Or that he will want to stay longer than 2 years? There are so many other things besides him being pissy about not getting his way.

He’s a ‘why not?’ type and I’m a ‘what if?’! I find myself worrying about it but don’t want my anxiety to hold us back

There are a lot of reasons "why not," as listed above. I can list more if you like.

It's one thing to not want anxiety to hold you back from fully living your life, but it's quite another to give away all your power to live someone else's dream (or just their passing whims).

And holding who back from what? Holding him back from doing whatever he wants to without considering the effect on you or the children? or holding you back from human contact, employment in the larger world, and a sense of stability?

How is this move a good thing FOR YOU? Since it isn't, then your anxiety isn't holding YOU back from anything positive in YOUR life.

I like Tokyo as a city very much to visit but there is absolutely no way I would live there.

Not many Japanese people that you would meet on the streets actually speak much if any English. I also think your H will encounter problems out there as well even though he is Japanese because he is coming back to a society very different to the one he left. Its a very much closed off society even today to non Japanese people and with no real support system for you to speak of I would also be saying no to this move abroad.