When the gaslightee won’t be gaslighted....

[BG2015]

A friend of mine has just ended a relationship with a guy she was seeing for about 2 years. She’s in her early 50’s and very intelligent ,independent, strong character, knows her mind etc. She’s had a fair few relationships in her time.

She ended the relationship because her ex didn’t consistently work and she just felt they weren’t on the same wavelength.

We talked about her relationship with him over Christmas and she said she was also aware that he sometimes tried to gaslight her, for example he would say that he told her things when she knew full well he hadn’t and he would say things purposely trying to get her to argue with him. He would also be adamant that he was right, even when she knew he was wrong.

My friend wouldn’t allow him to gaslight her and just ignored or agreed with a lot of it. But we got to talking about what a gaslighter would do if he never got a reaction? Would he ramp it up even more, end the relationship or give up?

I’ve never heard of anyone refusing to be gaslighted. Is it even gaslighting in this situation?

Yes elephant talk about it.

I’m glad you are out of it.

If we were around his dog when this stuff happened the dog would come and sit by me and paw me, if I was crying he’d lick all the tears off my face. I used to think ‘how the actual fuck is the dog kinder and more empathetic than you?!’

Thank you for your support, but I think it might be a very, very long post!

a lot of gaslighting is to do with control

There’s another thread where a poster uses the phrase “uses up your emotional energy defending your boundaries”. I think that sums up how they want to control

What they want is your energy and emotions spent on petty, silly things so you’re not making the best decisions for your life and soul overall

Eg I briefly dated an older man who completely reinvented our interaction (apparently I was jealous of his daughters despite never meeting then, and despite saying I was happy dating casually I was secretly “jealous” of his female friends.

On a day to day level, he’d just lie about small things - our plans, things he’d said to leave me looking stupid ) ,

what he didn’t want was for me to just step back and think “you’re not that attractive and I don’t want to end up a carer for an older man so I’m going to finish things,sorry”

Which of course I did eventually

Gaslighters and abusers and bullies like to provoke fights or debates or drama or uncertainty as MUCH as possible so their victims don’t have the time or headspace to make sensible decisions?

They want all the energy spent “defending” themselves or “proving” theyre not crazy.

It is a shit situation, but I don't plan to be in it forever.

Well Bird no time like the present.

I think gaslighting is different to paranoia.

Gaslighting can be based on immaturity, pathological lying, cognitive disonance or paranoia/delusions IMO (or a mix of any/or all four).

I suspect how people who gaslight react to different reactions of the gsalightee may also be somewhat dependent on what is motivating the gaslighting in the first place.

My ex was all four and no reaction made him continue until there was a reaction. My mum has cognitive dissonance and she reacts to no reaction by pestering to try and get her version confirmed and either defensiveness/crying if a reaction. XH was immature and no reaction was the best reaction he could hope for, a reaction just resulted in evasiveness/PA but he never expressed any feelings.

*different but related to... 🙄

Well IME the gaslighting from exdh was due to pathological lying. He has been called out on it by myself, Dsis, Dm and our DS. The next DP is in the immaturity catagory. DC2 is seeing the light.

Reading this post has reminded me of a man I briefly dated when I was around 25/26 years old. I didn't realise at the time, but he tried to gaslight me. I was genuinely being attentive and listening to everything he said and excited about the prospect of starting a new relationship. So I was able to recall his words and correct him, in a wide eyed bewildered young and thinking I'm falling in love kind of manner.

I was stunned when he angrily said "why do you have to listen to me and remember everything I say? Men occasionally tell little lies and forget what lies they tell and hate to be reminded."

Idiot.

Luckily it turned out that he was still dating his girlfriend who was also paying his mobile bill. So when she contacted me a few days after the gaslighting incident, it was very easy for me to walk away.

DH tries to gaslight me, but denies he's doing it. Usually when he's pissed.

Ime they cry if you refuse to give in to gaslighting.

Mine had an actual hierarchy of lying... See if anyone recognises this:

1. Omit to mention in first place
2. Be economical with the truth I.e. Leave critical facts out
3. Minimise and Deny
4. Twist it round so that its your fault
5. gaslight me
6. outright lie / complete falsehood

After some years and I had worked out all the above, when he tried to gaslight I would let rip back at him:

I.e. "Don't you dare try to gaslight me you obnoxious little turd. I know exactly what you're up to, there's nothing wrong with my mental health and it's YOU with the personality disorder. Just fuck off."

And this was normally met with silence for several days

I think if you naturally have good boundaries it doesn’t take anywhere near the same amount of emotional energy to maintain them, you are just like don’t be ridiculous I told you I wouldn’t do x and my reasons stand. You thinking I should have done it because y and z is bollocks. And if they get in a rage that relationship is over very quickly because it’s a bad relationship. Appreciate some men / women can be more subtle and get underneath your skin but I do think that accounts for a lot of cases. But I’m not a people pleaser at all

Yep it is true and I agree with other pps... is all I can say at this point!

Yes lost. That is most like my eldest’s dad who was another gaslighter (pathological lying). He was later diagnosed with BPD.

With recent ex (my mother is a gaslighter so no surprise all my relationships have been with gaslighters too 🙄) my lightbulb moment came basically through us being together long enough for him to start recycling scenarios but with a different version. One of them was the first time he tried to gaslight me by announcing that his friends had told him on a particular night out to be careful because they thought I was manipulating him but he had told them he didn’t think I was like that. 3 years later he brought up that particular night again but as justification for him having had a long standing (and of course totally justified 🙄) view that I was manipulative.

That was when the dog licked my tears incidentally because it made me cry as for years I’d been carrying fear (and anxiety when I was around his friends) that he was talking about me nastily to his friends and that they were all slagging me off.

My parents were gaslighters. Genuinely thought I was crazy, forgetful, stupid etc.

If I tried to stand up for myself (as an adult) it was met with ‘that’s not how it happened’ ‘you always had a terrible memory’ or ‘I never said that’, outright denial, or if I persisted, full on rage, twisting arguments and me ending up the bad guy.

I ended up in an abusive relationship with a gaslighter. He really sent me round the bend. Example. He’d go mental at me for leaving a window open (to air the tumble drier), so next day I would shut the window. Then he’d yell for the window being shut, telling me he never told me to shut it and I must have misheard.

I genuinely thought I was going crazy there too.

Gaslight, get away with it, do it more.

OR. Gaslight, get challenged, deny, twist, rage.

Please don’t think it’s easy to just walk away from a gaslighter. They are highly manipulative and eat your self esteem until it doesn’t exist.

Now I am more confident, can spot a narc at 20 paces, and don’t take shit no more.

Oooh yes I've had a couple of these. My particular fave is 'well that's only YOUR version of events' or well I guess that's what happened in YOUR reality' yet when it's twisted back on them in a perfectly reasonable way, ie: ' well if everything's just perception then your version of events is also not the absolute truth that's how your statement logically works'' it results in a full on toddler meltdown that can be very amusing to watch.

I am married to someone who is a constant gaslighter. I've recently started to stand up to him in that I refuse to engage in his gaslighting whatsoever - I just ignore it or agree to what he's saying and continue about without reacting.

I have also recently found out that my non- reaction causes fits of absolute rage beyond what I thought him capable of. So in my situation, the lesser my reaction, the more he amps things up in order to get one. It is horrible.

And for those wondering, I know leaving is necessary. I am working on it.

Your friend was smart and brave to get out. The longer you wait the worse it gets and the harder to leave.

This is so interesting.

My friend never mentioned that her ex had outbursts or rages. I wonder if it was more being an awkward sod with him than full on gaslighting. Or maybe over time if she had carried on the relationship it might have ramped up more.

Offred I know it's a bit of a derail to the thread but that was interesting (but sad) about the dog. Amazing that they are another species and less intelligent but can be more empathic than some humans. I have seen it myself that dogs try to comfort people who are sad or ill. My dog came and sat on my lap which she never normally does, the other day when I was upset, but just sitting there reading. I was surprised that she could see something was up and tried to make me feel better. Also they never try to gaslight you of course.

Anyway back to gaslighting I agree with a pp it's like bullying they try it out in subtle ways on everyone and the more confident people who don't fall for it at all they just avoid. Probably most of this they don't even realise they are doing.

My ex loved to bicker - could start an argument in an empty room. It was exhausting and I learned to recognise and avoid his attempts to needle me, until I would finally snap and then be annoyed at myself. His favourite phrase when I would confront him was "I don't know what you are talking about".

BG my DH doesn’t go into a rage. If I call him up on it, he’ll usually say he’s right, I:ll laugh and call him a fucking mentalist and that’s usually the end of it.

I can spotgaslighting now it is a horrible feeling, I remember this vividly as it's what came to mind when I learned what gaslighting is but it almost seems ridiculous but my ex of long ago gaslighted me over diluting juice for a time, he'd have a favourite one and I would buy it until a day came he kept saying I got the wrong one why would I buy it, when I'd say it is the one he's always drank he'd go into a rage.
I started by buying different ones to get it right which didn't change his reaction of course so I eventually stopped buying anything.
He was an emotional abusive arse and probably gaslighted me on many things and so glad I left him eventually after he became voilent/he was losing control.

My ex after that again tried to gaslight me can't remember what over but probably telling me I said something and all it did was make me fly into a rage, he didn't do that again. Can spot it now so won't tolerate it.

It's a form of gain an upper hand in a relationship so to me it shows that the relationship isn't compatible.

The person in my life that gaslights gets very emotional/angry and will rock and cry and talk a lot about why are they getting the blame when they are the victim and how cruel the other person is. Its a very big reaction and something I avoid triggering at all costs.

I actually still don't know if the person remembers / believes their own version of events so deeply or if they know they aren't being truthful. I actually think they have edited stuff in their own head and only remember the new version.