Why am I never good enough to be relationship material?

[christmaslog]

I just had to end things with a man I was seeing for a few months because he was losing interest and played the classic 'I don't want a relationship card'.

Every time I try dating and I meet someone I like it follows a similar pattern. Meet, they want to date for a few months, then it ends with me wanting more and them not. I'd say in the last few years, this has happened to me maybe 10+ times.

I can't transition from dating to relationship and I don't understand why.

The latest guy I thought I did it all right. Held out 8 dates for sex, didn't seem to keen, kept expectations low, yet still it's failed.

I don't know what's wrong with me and how to change.

Other people I know meet someone, they both like each other then seem confident it will end up a relationship and it does.

I can never have this because I just know it will go wrong - and it does!

What am I doing so wrong? Btw I'm 29.

Another amateur psychologist.

I have never been too fussy. If anything I rejevt conventionally handsome and successful men, as in, dont allow myself to think of them like that. Settling is my only break from relentless (but not unbearable!) Singledom.
My last bf was a bit odd looking tbh.and not tall either

OP you have had a NC fail.

Despite good advice on here and posters trying to make suggestions with very little information from you, you don't sound appreciative.

You come across as defensive and insecure. As though life owes you more, rather than you need to reflect and get on with life. I have ended relationships with men who act like this, often linked with passive aggression too call me an amateur psychologist as well if you like I don't care .

I thought the same Lana! Even if Paperbag isn’t the OP, OP was apparently asking for advice and insight so calling respondents ‘amateur psychologists’ is a bit rude and pointless and yes, says something about ’Paperbag

Christmastree your post referred to 'rejecting before you are rejected' and I think that is common when someone is insecure. It's not always an obvious rejection, can be acting as though it will end in minor ways that build to bigger problem. I know as I have done this myself!

I'm not Paperbag.

Am sure Mumsnet hq can confirm

Ok OP, what are your thoughts on the feedback here?

I think I overanalysed his actions because I was expecting it to end badly based on past experience. I didn't think this came across but maybe it did.

A couple of months ago I caught him on tinder messenger at my house. I should've talked then about exclusivity but I was scared to hear the answer so I didn't mention that I'd seen it. Ever since I've rightly or wrongly been insecure.

Next time maybe I need to be more upfront early on.

But I don't think he is in the best place for a relationship. Just moved to this city, he's not enjoying his job, misses his friends, owns property in another city so goes back there each weekend (I've been with him once, he isn't married).

I'm really scared I'll never meet anyone else I like this much and that I screwed up my last chance.

Because he was being so keen then I saw him on tinder I presume I did something wrong.

Are you sure it's not themen you are dating? Maybe they are too young (if you are in London for example many men will just not have relationships until they are ready to settle down in their mid thirties). Where are you meeting them (are you meeting them through mutual friends or through tinder?). Are you prioritising the wrong qualities (e.g. Always going out with good looking men over men with stable careers/who are looking to start a family or maybe always dating out of your league?).

It's good that you are being proactive in trying to meet someone who wants a relationship. You can see that something isn't working so keep trying different approaches-hopefully you will cone across something that works for you eventually.

Stop looking. If anyone half decent asks you on a date, feel free to go but leave OLD alone for a while. You are already a runner so in theory you will be meeting men you have something in common with. If you are not in a running club, join one. If nothing else, it will widen your social circle.

You will almost certainly meet someone, so don't despair.

I never even got a date through OLD.

Why are you accusing the OP of having a name change fail?

I was responding quite reasonably I think to the 'advice' that the OP might be ..................too fussy. Omg, now there's a piece of advice that is refreshing and insightful!

I'm not the OP, I'm in my forties and she said she was 29 if I recall correctly, or maybe that was somebody on another thread. I'm a frequent name-changer but I'm not a sock puppet. Fgs! Like it's unfathomable that two women could be in this situation!

OP, you have youth on your side though. I recommend reading a great book called ''attached'' - it goes in to a lot of detail and explanation about attachment styles. Also, natalie lue's mr unavailable and the fallback girl. If I'd figured this stuff out younger I probably could have met somebody. Probably too late for me now as no man I could ever be attracted to has (so far) shown any interest in going out with me properly.

ps, my reply wasn't rude by the way.
The point I made was made in exasperation but it really needs to be made to people who come to a thread like this by a woman who is despairing wondering why, what, how can I never have had a relationship and to offer up .............''you're too fussy''.

There are a lot of women and men wondering why in a decade, two decades, three decades, they have NEVER managed to connect with anybody and have a committed relationship with somebody they are attracted to.

The reasons for this are not because you're too fussy.

When people don't understand why they feel stifled by a new relationship they might explain their reversal to friends with explanations that sound like being too fussy but that's not what it is.

I didn't realise until about 5 years ago that I had a fear of intimacy. I don't any more, but people getting too close could make me feel stifled so I panicked and then put a label on the motivation to panic and flee which might have sounded like fussiness to friends, but that was so not the point. So, accusing women of being too fussy as though they needed to lower their bar and go for less conventionally attractive men, that's not going to solve anything. It's just heaping more BLAME on women, it couldn't possibly be that it's hard to find somebody who's right for you? You're too fussy is easy for bystanders because it prevents them from wondering if they would meet somebody new if they needed to. 'You're too fussy and that's why you're single' is easier for other people around you. They get comfort in that. It makes them feel in control, believing that meeting somebody and getting a relationship is always possible if one wants that. A lot of people can't believe that these things sometimes happen, sometimes they don't that there are no guarantees and that there is no happy ending for everybody. That scares some people.

OD can be pretty brutal.

How long are you “dating” before discussing exclusivity? Are you having that conversation before having sex?

It might help to filter out people who aren’t interested more quickly.

It’s not “failure” to be dumped after a short while. It just means they weren’t that into you.

Not rational to think any relationship is your “last chance”.

ps, one more thing for the OP,

Were your parents ''not that in to you''. I think that's why for years I mistook a man's ambivalence for butterflies and chemistry. I only felt that way about men who had one foot in and one foot out the door. But sometimes they duped me and made me believe that they were all in until after I slept with them and then revealed after I was a bit reeled in that they weren't up for a relationship. So, something in me was picking up on their ambivalence towards me a relationship with me before they revealed it. And these weren't men who never called. I had a 'relationship' with a man who was very communicative but he just wouldn't admit we were in a relationship, I suppose because HE knew it was going nowhere.

Another thing OLD taught me was how many different types of unavailable there are. Wow. Literally every type has darkened my door now! So it has left me with an I cannot be bothered trying to make this happen feeling now. I am still very open to it if it happens in real life but i just cannot waste time ploughing through more unavailable men on OLD.

Therapy might be a great way to start addressing why you have such low self-esteem

I have often seen this advice on MN. I'm sure therapy is helpful (I'd love to have therapy-I think I need it) but it is totally out of reach for most people. It's incredibly expensive and if you have children it's very time consuming. On the NHS you have to prove that your life is very severely impacted by your issues to justify a therapist and even then you have to pay and join a long waiting list.

Paperbag sorry but I assumed you were the OP. Your post seemed to reply as though you were and I misunderstood where you were coming from. The other poster Christmastree suggesting that OP may be rejecting before being rejected was, I believe, a fair point.

You and I are in same age bracket and both understand that OD is full of unavailable people. I see it as a challenge to meet available men, but have to admit I have a underlying bias against believing I can form new relationships. I guard against this by constantly actively switching off doubt and taking the risk of being hurt. Yes it does then hurt when it goes wrong, but I would rather try than give up I'm a bit bossy so want to be in charge . I have had around 20 dates from OD in over a year and many more chats with singles and now have a BF of 4 months. Maybe it will end, but maybe it won't and I'm going to enjoy it while it does and put effort in to believe it will work. In the meantime I like life in general, not all about a man.

No worries LanaDReye

I think the be less choosy advice grates on me because I feel that i had a good connection with men who if they were a bit less choosy themselves would have valued me more so from my perspective I am valuing the right things (now, I didn't in the past, I even had an abusive relationship years ago which I learnt is another form of avoidance/fear of intimacy.

wrt rejecting before one is rejected oneself, yes, I remember years ago, my parents raised me to feel that there was literally NOTHING more shameful than being attracted to somebody. It was seen as giddy, a loss of control, lustful (?) Conversely though there was pressure to be conventional and get married. How I was supposed to get from single to married, there was no instruction at all there!

Paperbag what if it wasn't a case of them not valuing you, but them just being avoidant insecure or anxious insecure through long term issues or post a bad break up ?

As with the OP how much of this is down to relationships with unavailable men?

How many people in LTR relationships would struggle to get in a new one due to insecurities that threaten their current relationship, but somehow the LTR holds together financially locked or DCs involved ?

Doom and gloom aside, for the time it does work it's good to enjoy it. OD is a way to meet new people and some are genuine.

yes, I do think the dating pool is very well represented with avoidant people but particularly men.

I think if I do it again my focus will be on finding somebody to go to the cinema with once in a while. I did it for two years and I met a fearful avoidant, a dismissive avoidant, a man I'd no chemistry with but he seemed nice, although I don't miss him at all, a stressed and fucked up player, amongst other heroes! And still, nobody I can ring up or text and say 'wanna go and see xxxxx film?''. I feel my communication could have been better too. Clearly I could have steered some of the car crashes in the direction of cinema-buddies!

Paperbag and *OP^ I would recommend that if you use OD again you do go for the 'fun this may not last' approach.

I went on initial coffee dates assuming it wouldn't really go anywhere. A few times I went from one coffee date straight to another limited child free time plus I liked the fun element . I exclusively date men after a good date 2/3. I have felt disapointment and cried along the way, but most new relationships just don't last.

My current at 4 months is longest so far and I would be upset if it ends. I was previously in LTR of 18 years (he cheated). OD is brutal but LTR can be tough too.

I think OLD is a bad way to try to start a relationship because the OLD dating pool is full of men who you wouldn't want a relationship with (and couldn't have one with) - men just looking for sex, married men, strange loners and weirdos.

Deep and hidden amongst this dross will be a tiny handful of normal decent men who you will do well to even find in the first place and if you do, you will face mass competition from other women who have honed in on the one normal guy.

Meeting men in real life is not like this because you don't have such a skewed pool of dross to wade through. For example, if you meet a man you like through "normal real life channels" - say at work or through volunteering or a friend of a friend - it is much harder for a married man or commitment phobe or serial killer (!) to conceal that because he comes with an identifiable hinterland (through his friends/colleagues).

I get that it is harder to meet single men as you get older but even allowing for that, I still think it is better to expend energy trying to meet men in real life rather than OLD.

I know some people are lucky (queue the usual line of "but I met my DH through OLD) but the bookies odds would not be good.

I have attachment issues to, and will often not recognise (or ignore) social queues that suggest people really like me. Suggest you get some cbt and then go on a no pressure dating event (speed dating or similar).

I’m experiencing similar issues. I recently wrote my list of “non-negotiables” to help me figure out what really matters to me. There’s nothing superficial on there; it’s all about the person’s personality and the way they treat others. I plan to talk it over with a few close friends too. I’d recommend it as a good starting point.

Yes good to have the list of non negotiables on yr phone so that it is what you know rationally yr standard has to be. I can find it hard not to make exceptions and hope for the best or not raise difficult subjects when it is not theory but practice.

Im not doing OLD atm. Maybe I like somebody in rl. Not sure. At least I know his friends like him. At least hw cant tell me he works for NASA

But I never expect anything to happen.

I experienced this for the longest time. I thought I was destined to be alone forever. After years feeling bitter and fed up and lonely I eventually just accepted that this was it, and concentrated on enjoying life. Then I might my man online (at 35) and 3 years later we're getting married!