How can I move on without hurting my family? Advice needed please

[FoolthatIAm]

Hi. I will try not to make this too long but that may be difficult!

Have wanted to ask MN's for advice for a while. Please try and be constructive with any criticism as I'm aware that I have allowed this to go on for far too long. Feeling very weepy today after yet another telling off!

I have done some foolish things in my time for example, unhealthy relationships, no boundaries. I am attempting to address this now. Almost 20 years ago I married a man who had been a friend for years. Had 2 ds's. (One birth, one adopted - that is relevant!)

We were happy for a number of years and then not. It's a bit too long to go into everything so I'll try to condense it a bit. He stopped wanting to go anywhere with me and the children. Didn't want to socialise. I thought he was ashamed to be seen out with me at one point! He wouldn't try new restaurants or go anywhere really. My self esteem was very low at this time.

I met Mum's at a toddler group and we started going for meals, children's parties, shopping trips etc. I suppose I just created a social life due to his lack of interest.

Ten years ago, it all came to a head and we parted. He insisted we sell our home and split the money. I bought a house for me and the dc's. He rented for a while. Then, he bought a house a few yards from mine!

I did try to start divorce proceedings but he would just shout and bawl at me and I hate that in front of the dc's and for me. So I just stopped. Over the last 10 years, it's become the same relationship only I have a separate house. (I hope that makes sense).

I know that I have allowed this to happen. I just felt so brow beaten and weary and couldn't fight any more, so allowed him to call the tunes. I feel that I'm still in a relationship with him even though I don't get any of the positives of being married - if there are any!

I feel so trapped. I feel the dc's have had enough disruption in their lives without me 'changing' things now. Is that just me looking for an excuse?

I'm in a no win situation and I really need to get out of it for my MH if nothing else. I'm a single parent - who isn't. I'm a married woman - who isn't.

Am going to stop now and post and hope that I have given enough information for advice. Apologies if I haven't. It's not intentional.

No- thechildren treated EQUALLY.

Minimal contact for one, minimal for both.

Supporting his unequal treatment of them is hugely damaging to them BOTH.

Feeling very weepy today after yet another telling off!

Who's teling you off? Whoever it is, you need to distance yourself from them. You're an adult woman and no-one has the power to tell you off, unless you give them that power.

It sounds v difficult. You want to get yourself out of this situation without hurting anyone, but you've been hurting for years. You can't control how others will feel about it, but you can't let that stop you. He is unlikely to turn round and say it's a great idea and it will be very convenient for him (and possibly others) to blame you for the disruption to comfortable lives which have been going on for years at your expense.

Don't involve him in a discussion about this because he doesn't want the same outcome as you. Do your research in the background (the Legal Matters board on here is great) and prepare a few stock phrases to repeat over and over "I've given it a lot of thought and I've decided to divorce you". "Our marriage has been over for years". "I hope we can continue to work together for our boys". Decide boundaries and repeat. "Please don't come into the house". "I won't respond to texts about anything other than practical matters about the boys". Encourage him to make independent arrangements with the DC, encourage the DC to see him and for them to keep you informed on a practical level but no more. He can communicate with school for parents evening etc. I imagine you may have been facilitating his parenting for uears.

Have confidence that you can do this and that happiness for you lies on the other side of this disruption. Surround yourself with people who share that confidence. Counselling might help.

Good luck

No. First get professional advice. Knowledge is power. Go and see a solicitor.

I get where you're coming from Fizzy and I'm not putting obstacles in the way. I genuinely don't know what to do.

At 17, I don't feel that I should be telling him when he can see his father?
Youngest never wants to go there.

So, solicitor before email yes? When we first split up he wanted me to sign some document he'd had drawn up. As I recall - although I do still have it as I didn't sign it - it stated that as I was having more money from the sale of the house than him, I would give him x £ in a few years time. Yeah ok! That I would relinquish my share of his business - I didn't even know I had a share had he not mentioned it!

I'm going to bloody do this. I can feel it!

Definitely solicitor before email. You need to stop putting him first. Get all your plans together before you talk/write to him.

Get a solicitor. Then you can use them as a wall between you and him - all discussions have to go through solicitor so that puts a stop to bullying and shouting.

Thank you Emeralda. It's probably obvious that my boundaries are shit!

'Husband' shouts at me every time I mention something. This mornings was about Christmas money. He has always (10 years or so) given me £400 for their Christmas presents. I buy, wrap all of them. I have pointed out to him in the past that as two ipads are £500 then yes, I do put more in!

He asked if I think he's made of money (which I know he's not but he has more than me and can always put his hand on £££ if he has to). So I said - not to worry about it then, I would get what I wanted for them and you can get what you want. I then had a slating because I was ruining everybody's Christmas and all I think of is myself blah, blah. Somehow this changed into me falling out with lots of people over the years!

That is an easy place to start - you buy christmas presents from you. If he wants to buy his sons christmas presents then he can, but don't do it for him. The boys are old enough now to know these boundries.

Yes. I'll start there. I said it this morning and I'll stick to it. They are old enough you're right. This has been a long time coming. I have let it drift for too long. Any changes I ever try to make have all been shouted down

Yes the time for joint Christmas presents has long past. Only have Christmas presents from yourself in your house.

Honestly just walk away from him. Talk to your children explain your are exhausted by him and things are going to change then disengage - nothing joint.

He can’t shout you down because these things aren’t joint decisions. He doesn’t have to agree, you don’t need his permission. Tell him don’t ask and if he kicks off walk away.

Does he have keys to your house if so change the locks.
A simple step is when he comes over if you must speak keep him in the doorstep or step outside to speak with him.
He might to be as keen to shout with an audience if of his own neighbours.
There is no need for him ever to be in your home again.
An Am like everyone else says.
Contact and lawyer and do everything formally.
As for the children due to their ages they are able to chose the type of relationship they want with their father so sit down be honest with them and ask.
Good luck

I can see that you have got caught in a tricky muddle and can't see your way clear of it. But you hold more cards than you think.

Email:

'I would like to make the situation between us official and put our lives on a different basis, as the present arrangement is no longer possible for me.

I will be instructing a solicitor to arrange a divorce, on the grounds of five years separation. In order to show that we are truly separated, I can no longer host you for regular family meals at my house. I also don't want to do so anymore. If you would like to see the boys, invite them to your house and I will encourage them to visit. Please do not visit my house without my invitation.

I hope that you can continue regular contact with them. However, if you react in a negative way to this change (either to me or to our children, or my parents) then I will take steps to move elsewhere.'

This wording helps you with a 'stuck record' technique:

"Grrghhh! What's all this bs? What's wrong with things now?!"

'It is no longer possible for me'

'you are always so blah, blah, blah, bitch'

'that may be true, but it is no longer possible for me to continue in the present way'

Ask your children whether or not they want to see their father - if they don't then all good and so be it, if they do then weekend contact is more than acceptable.

Don't decide for them how often they see him, this is their choice. Children placed in social care have that choice from 12 years old.

Thanks Doctor. I will send most of that in an email to him.

Am going to make an appointment for solicitor now. PP mentioned Legal Matters board. Why can't I see it?

@Daisy. I suspect older son will just go there as he has been doing for years. Younger son, hmmm, I'll do that. Make it his choice. He very often doesn't want to go there.

Anyone out there with legal knowledge? I can't see a solicitor until next week.

And so it starts - he's just rung eldest son - shouting about something. I despair. I really do

what legal knowledge are you after?

here's the MN Legal Matters board if you want to start a thread about something specific: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_matters

Thank you flimp. I feel I need to keep my momentum going atm.

It would be so easy - and wrong - to just keep putting up with things.

At the risk of boring everyone. I'm going to ask on this thread for now if that's ok.

I know I need to get divorced. Had I done it years ago when the children were younger, I think I know that a court would have given me the lion's share? Now that they're older, I'm concerned that legally things could be a lot different now. Custody won't be an issue I wouldn't have thought, although eldest son may choose to live with his father eventually. I hope not. I'd rather he wasn't tied to him in that way tbh. I am helping him flee the nest so to speak but bloody hell, his father's hard work.

When i file for divorce, is our financial situation an issue after all this time?

First thing - both the kids are old enough to choose to see him or not.

So send him an email with the following points.

I'm filing for divorce.
You are not welcome in my house ever again for any reason.
All your contact with kids can be organised with kids. Legally kids are old enough to choose to see you or not.

Do not contact me. I will email you the contact details of my solicitor and all contact will go through them.

All shouting by telephone ends in hanging up - immediately. Teach your kids this too. No one is allowed to shout at them on the phone EVER. My kids managed this from about 9 onwards with their very abusive father. It is very tough to do initially. The first time my eldest did it - she got me to do the physical act for her. Preferably you should block his number and tell the kids you have done so.

You should all read the Out of the Fog website. Very very useful for you and the kids in sorting your heads out.

Solicitors are very busy at this time of year - quite a lot of year end stuff. However you really don't need to wait for a solicitor to get the ball rolling. You can even look into doing the divorce yourself if money is an issue, but I would recommend legal advice.

Good luck. How exiting that this is now going to be finished and your life will be so much better. Probably all of your lives. You are giving you kids options about how much shit they have to put up with which sadly they've not had much choice about up to now. Please don't delay a day more.

What is there left that is financially joined? You have separate houses, so that seems to be a non issue. Does their father pay anything else. People can only work with the information you give.

Not got any advice, except there's been some good advice already! Just wanted to wish you and your boys well and to say that although it might feel really difficult at times remember you will eventually get through it if you keep going. If you are afraid he might get violent then please seek some advice regarding that too

I haven't intentionally left out information. He gives me money each month, but I'm really starting to think I'd rather do without it. I don't particularly want his business/pension or whatever but I did have some £40,000 come to me last year and I'd like me and my boys to spend it!

Also, the house is in my name, but as we're still married, could he somehow insist that he wants some of it now that my children are older?