Advice on handling DN.

[KungFuPandaWorksOut16]

I currently have my niece living with me.
(Quick backstory - DN hasn't had the easiest few years with my sister, bullying at school, eating problem, witnessed a domestic violence, new sibling, new man in the house and sister pregnant quickly again, massive argument with my sister which resulted in niece being kicked out and banished from seeing other siblings)

Now I am having a little problem with DN. I have no experience what so ever with 11 year olds, so I am looking for wisdom off mumsnetters.

It seems lately whenever I ask or say anything, she always has too argue back or have the last word. And it can be over something so simple.

For example last night-
Me : Have you packed your gym kit?
Her : Did you wash it and put it in my room?
Me : yeah..
Her : what do you think then?

Her favourite phrases are " whatever" and " Don't care" when I try and explain the way she's spoken too me isn't nice.

My DH has pointed out if I let it carry on she'll get worse and I'll be making a rod for my own back and she doesn't speak to him like that so why do I accept it.

It doesn't really bother her when I take her gadgets away because as she smugly tells me "mum use to do that. Doesn't bother me". Obviously me talking too her isnt working either.

I know she has taken the situation with her mum badly (understandably her mum won't even talk with her unless she apologies to the new lover man. Even if she does, she doesn't want her back home) She currently has a counsellor in place at school. They have no concerns over DN, and say she has fitted in perfectly and have no problem with her attitude.

I don't know what steps to take next. Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.

I can't get over you saying "understandably her mum won't even speak to her". Understandably?! It's fucking awful.

Category I think there was some missing punctuation there. I think OP meant her niece has understandably taken her mums behaviour badly, then goes on to explain the mums behaviour

Whoops! youchanged got it right.
But maybe category If you put the first bit of the sentence it wouldn't sound as dramatic as you've made it out to be. If I agreed with my sister's actions why would I have taken my DN in, and asking for advice on how to be the best person for her.

ELEVEN. Poor thing.
I'm an adoptive parent and this scapegoating/better and cuter baby comes along/choose boyfriend over child is pretty common in children whose families place them voluntarily in foster care. Usually as teens, so in a way she's lucky it happened now while she's not also trying to be a teenager.
She is probably really traumatised poor lass. There's a group for therapeutic parenting that I'm in on FB, it's quite helpful if you look it up.
I'm also a fan of natural and logical consequences - not "take away treats" type things as children don't link them to their behaviour.

Yes also agree adoption or fostering boards will be helpful!

Adoption and fostering boards, and possibly social services for support.
Don’t take stuff away.
Don’t shout or shame
Try and stay really calm and logical and treat everything with humour.

Poor lass is really going to be suffering, whatever she may say...

Poor girl.

The tweenage/teenage years are really hard for kids, even when they're in alobing family. Their hormones are all over the place, they feel peer pressure, their own pressure, school pressure and your DN has to deal with being abandoned by her mum too. I think she'll be testing your boundaries on top of normal attitude at her age.

As someone said the adoption board would be more helpful, but from my experience of having a teen and a tween..pick your battles and don't things personally. Try and get some one to one time with her doing something you both enjoy -cinema, bowling etc. So she feels cherished and more likely to have chats etc. Don't be a mug either though and get her to contribute with housework etc.

Sorry I misread. A comma or two would have helped.

My DD who is now 13 between the ages of 8 and 12 faced her dad choosing his new partner and her DD repeatedly over our DD.
She used all the same behaviours as you describe.
I choose my boundaries and stuck to them, for me I never took the phone away as despite hating her dad for choosing them she also still loved him and that would be the method he would contact her. Taking it away would finally destroy any chance she had of contact with him.
I was firm and consistent, I explained how rudeness made me feel.
I would disagree that toddlers and teenagers are the same, the teenage brain is very different. ‘Get our of my life, but first take me and Alex to town’ was a useful read.
Does your DH show an interest in your DN and are you both modelling a good relationship to her. DD knows my DP will never be her dad, but he does ‘dad stuff’ with her and we all do stuff together as a family.
Saying well done and giving praise is essential, but being proud is also important. She needs to feel that you want to tell the world how good she is at something.

I remember the thread about all this happening with your sister. How shit for your niece. Agree that she is just testing you out. The 'oi cheeky' response from a pp is a good one I think. She's telling you she doesn't care to protect herself. You're doing well. Keep on keeping on!

Massive pat on the back for you OP. Giving your niece love and stability.

I hope this is just a bumpy patch. 11 year old girls can be moody at the best of times.

Hopefully you will have a lovely and peaceful Christmas.

How's today going OP?

Well I tried one of the technique a poster suggested.

Me - can you dry the pots and I wash?
DN - do I have too
Me - yeah you do.
DN - whatever
Me - smile love you

She looked at me did a little giggle and said Ewww and walked off. She did dry the pots and we had a little dance and sang our hearts out whilst doing it.

The love you, totally through her off. She wasn't expecting it at all.

Threw her off*

Great! And getting those “love you” s into her head is a good idea. It’s one message you want rattling around her head to counteract any other messages and the rejection.

poor love.

(both of you)

sounds like your dn needs lots of love and security. she has had something dreadful happen to her. she will need different handling to other children as anything negative is going to be a big deal for her. you do need to keep boundaries though, just choose which are most important. hormones and teenage attitude do not help the matter either.

She's testing you to see how you'll react. Your last post shows the right way - use love and humour for the most part, but if stubbornness descends, just gently remind her she knows what the consequences are and ask what she wants to happen.

That’s great well done you! so good to see a positive update.

I’m sure it won’t be an easy road ahead for either of you but it’ll be so so worth it

And your sister is a fucking disgrace

At her age she's a raging pool of hormones. Possible periods imminent ? I think the age of 11 - 14 are pretty shitty and it certainly doesn't sound like it's been particularly easy for her these last months. Great that your there for her. Give it a few years and I'm sure she'll be aware of that also.

Your poor niece, how lucky she is to have you. Sound like humour is the way forward.

I frequently tell my dd I love her in the same sentence as telling her off. I want her to understand that whilst I don’t like her behaviour sometimes, I’ll always love her. So far it’s working out as generally she is kind and considerate and really well behaved, but very secure and confident with it. I do however realise that I may be eating my words when she hits her teens.. 😂

Fab update. Also can’t help but sing and dance doing the washing up

Op, I hope you realise how lovely you are.

Great stuff!

Made me tear up a bit!