Feeling very sad tonight :(

[SaturdayNIghtAtTheMovies]

I know that no one on here is going to have the answer. I read so many threads on here that are similar; the advice is always good and the same. I'm just feeling really sad tonight.

I'm 43. I have had 2 'proper' relationships in my adult life - the first between 20 and 23 and the second between 26 and 37. I was completely single - not even a date, between the two. Both relationships were abusive, although I didn't realise they were until I was out of them really. Neither of those men loved me. My parents pretty much told me that no one ever would and I ought to give any man who showed an interest as little reason to end it as possible. So I tried. But I wasn't very good at that. I'm quite confident, opinionated, intelligent and I (now) have good boundaries. All the things my parents said men don't like. My mum told me often all the things that were wrong with me (physically and characteristically) and would make me unattractive to men. I believed her. Then I found MN and started to doubt her. So many women saying men like confident, assertive women with hobbies and their own lives, friends and interests...

But it isn't true. In the past 6 years, I've had 3 or 4 fledgling relationships. They have ended because I'm not young enough, or slim enough or attractive enough - generally. The most recent ending, in part, because he didn't feel I made enough time for him or priortised him in my life.

I've spent a long time feeling like my mother was just a spiteful woman who set out to sabotage me and my happiness. The FB memes that tell you your mum was always right/knew best have only ever irritated me because mine didn't. Except that she did. She could see that I wasn't good enough.

I am 'content' to be single. I have some friends. I have a job. I have children. I have hobbies. I am happy in my own company. I don't 'need' a man. The feeling that I 'need' someone left me a long time ago. And I'm not even sure that I 'want' a relationship. I think what I'm struggling with is that I'm only getting older. I'm a couple of stone overweight. All the things my mother said about me when I was younger are only more true now.

I'm just really struggling, once again, with the thoughts/knowledge that I'm going to grow old never having been loved by someone who wasn't dependent on me. I've never been that special or important or made a significant positive impact on anyone's life that they would want me in it.

It's so hard. My job requires me to 'love' and 'care' for people as part of it. I have always done voluntary work with vulnerable people or to support the community. I have good boundaries and am comfortable saying "no" if I don't think I can commit fully. I don't let people down. I listen rather than 'advise'. I currently advocate for, and support, an adult with SN on a voluntary basis.

I care enormously for other people. But no one cares for, or about, me.

I've given up on thoughts of meeting someone. I know that won't happen. I have hobbies that I enjoy, but they don't really attract men of my age group! But there's just a heavy sadness inside me and I'm struggling to come to terms with the loss of something I've never had.

I can't be the only person who feels like this?

Probably should add that I have AS and I don't think that helps matters. But I see people all around me who are loved. People who have people who think they are worth it.

I just don't understand why I'm not.

Well, apart from everything my mum said...

You are worth it.
There's someone for everyone, you just haven't found your one yet.

You, young lady, need to work on forgetting what your bloody mother said!! It's a total load of crap, only you're making it come true in a roundabout way.....

She was mean and bitter. Are you going to carry that on your whole life?

Mirror work. Self esteem work. Self acceptance work. And no you don't get to 'know' that it will come true, but just watch.

Be loved. Let it in xxxxx

It's kind of you to say so, BrownJenkins, but I find it hard to believe. I'm 43 now. There has never been anyone who came even close.

I've never done mirror work something2say. I don't think I could do that. Self esteem work - I've done it.

I've tried so much of it all. I've had counselling, I've done the self help stuff, I've pushed myself outside my comfort zone and thrived, I set personal challenges and goals... If you met me, I don't think you'd have a clue I feel like this. I'm smiley and happy and get described as "kind" "lovely" and "approachable" (I know, because I did all the work on asking people to describe you in three words too...).

And then I read the relationship threads on here and there are so many sad people.

So it's not that I want to find someone, per se.

It's more that I'm struggling to come to terms with the sadness that accompanies knowing this is how it's going to be now. I wish I could just find a way to accept it and make peace with it.

It's not being single I struggle with, it's never having been loved and knowing that that isn't going to change. That's what I find hard.

Sorry you're feeling so sad OP

My parents pretty much told me that no one ever would and I ought to give any man who showed an interest as little reason to end it as possible. This is where your sadness stems from. I'm afraid to say your parents have instilled in you this belief about yourself - that you're nothing special

Damn. Sorry posted too soon. I was going to say, but this is a belief NOT a fact. Did you explore this in therapy? Because beliefs can be changed you know.

You are right to doubt your mother. She was 100% wrong.

Perhaps, as you absorbed all these wrong theories about yourself from your mother, you actually felt you really were unlovable. So then it follows that you haven't been able to love yourself - maybe therapy would be worth another try. When our mothers don't mother us properly, we need to find it within ourselves to do that job; we need to learn to mother ourselves. Try to be a kind loving and compassionate 'mother' to that young girl you once were, the one carrying all the pain. Kind self talk, asking yourself what you need, not berating yourself; speak to yourself in your head as if you are one of your children who is upset and sad, offer yourself comfort.

Thank you for your kind words, FantasticButtocks.

It feels like a fact. The things she said about me were objectively true - eg i did bite my nails and that is not attractive; i don't have an attractive body shape - my physical characteristics are used as insults to others; i am opinionated.

I'm not as hard on myself as i once was. I used to feel physically sick when i looked at myself or anyone said something nice. Now i just accept that i can't change myself and people are just being polite.

But i don't know how to be kind to myself. Or what to say. But even if i did, it wouldn't change the facts.

You sound lovely OP. I got together with my DH when I was 46, and it’s wonderful. I hope you stumble across the love of your life, like I did. I don’t see why you can’t.

And I’m very opinionated. 😉

I think the difficulty is that, now, I'd find it very difficult to trust anyone's motives.

It's ridiculous, I'd never had a relationship with anyone who could drive, let alone owned a car, until I was in my late 30s. When I was 39 I was picked up from my house, for the very first time in my life, by a man in his car. I didn't feel I deserved anyone who fulfilled even the most basic markers of adulthood or 'success'. In my late teens/very early 20s, it would be safe to say I only dated the 'dregs of society'. I actively rejected anyone 'decent' to protect them. I felt ashamed and a bit embarrassed for them if they showed any interest and a bit like people would be looking at me wondering why I thought I was so special.

My two relationships have been with abusive men - the first, when I was 22-24, had terrible mental health problems and reguarly hit me, locked me out, went on days long rants accusing me of all sorts. I thought I loved him and his mum convinced me that his behaviour was only because he loved me so much. I believed her because I had no idea what 'love' looked like and they seemed to be pretty clued up on it in their family. Besides, my dad had always been quite 'hitty' and it was always dressed up at home as "if people didn't love you, then you wouldn't be able to wind them up so much". If a boyfriend wasn't aggressive or violent, I assumed it was because they didn't care enough about me to be bothered what I did.

The second, between 26 and 37, was emotionally and financially abusive. Got us into debt, lied about pretty much everything - but I didn't really see it at the time, punished me for doing 'being a woman' right. When I told my mum in the first 6 months or so that I was sad and wanted to get out, she said that I already had one failed relationship behind me and I couldn't afford another and that I was lucky he'd taken me on at all.

It's awful looking back.

But the knock on effect is huge. I wouldn't date anyone who was 'better' than me now.

I'm hugely insecure because I know that I don't possess any of the qualities required for a successful relationship. I'm facially attractive enough to get interest from bored married men who are looking for a bit on the side (always reject, of course). But I'm not physically attractive generally and I clearly don't have the desired characteristics. I'm not tolerant of porn, I don't like 'banter', I like quiet, intelligent, educated, sensitive men, who drink real ale, are creative, like camping, have a similar social attitude and conscience to me. But I'm not what they want.

I'm the sort of woman that men 'settle' for. I don't want to be with someone who thinks they could do better. But equally, I don't want someone who has such low self esteem/worth that they think I'm the best they can do. And that is how I always process it.

I've recently had another fledgling relationship fail and that was the closest I've ever felt to being valued or loved.

But, like I say, I've accepted that I won't meet someone. I'm fine with that. It actually takes a huge amount of pressure of worrying what I look like! I just wish I could make peace with the sadness of knowing I'll have lived a whole life not being loved by anyone.

punished me for NOT doing 'being a woman' right

Look I'm a man somewhat similar the type you describe there and honestly you are talking rubbish about settling for someone like you. There is no someone like you, we are all different and fancy different things about each other. You think you are being realistic but it seems so clear it is the terrible impact of your parents on your attitudes. Please don't give up.

This is really sad OP. You say you’re not what men want? How do you know what men want? Have you asked them all?

Just because you’re not what one man wants, doesn’t mean you’re not what a different man wants. There’s someone out there for you and he will think you are perfect in every way. Don’t give up.

It sounds to me like you are mourning your most recent relationship ending.

I think what are doing is engaging in catastrophic thinking to protect yourself from being hurt in the future. Like, trying to imagine the worst case scenario and come to terms with it.

My advice is to stop living in the past or the future. You don't know what is going to happen to you next in your life. You don't. No one knows. And you can't predict it by analysing your features or things that happened twenty years ago. You've got to concentrate on today and how you can improve that. Maybe go out and buy yourself some flowers, even. Just look after yourself today. Don't worry about all this stuff so much.

Crowdo with all due respect, I've had counselling and therapy on an off for about 20 years to try and deal with the various impacts of my childhood, I'm not sure a bunch of flowers is going to make any difference at all.

pog I can only go my my experiences; what I see, what has happened, and what I've been told. I understand what you're saying, but my experience tells me otherwise.

Daisy No, I haven't asked them all. But then I don't fancy them all and will never meet the majority of them. I'm going by 100% of my experience. And no one IRL would ever guess I felt like this. I have 2 friends who know. One has known for a couple of years and has been great support, the other I only told quite recently and he was shocked. He said he would never have guessed I felt like this. So it's clearly not that I go around with a miserable face on me either.

As for the 'someone for everyone' thinking, I have a friend who has been single for as long as I've known him (about 3 or 4 years). I saw him last week and he tells me he has met someone and fallen in love. He is quite clearly enamoured with this woman. It's lovely to see and, if I'm honest, it kind of gave me a bit of hope. When I asked about her, it turns out she's "tiny" (she is, I've seen a photo of them both); "beautiful" (certainly above average attractiveness at the very least) and 20 years younger than he is.

When I asked what they had in common, what is was about her he'd fallen in love with, what she was like... (not an interrogation - a conversation over dinner), he said that "none of that matters does it? Not when you're in love"

What he really meant was "none of that matters does it? Not when she's tiny, beautiful and 20 years younger than me". Size, looks, age. If you've got those on your side you're alright. I don't.

But, like I said, this was never really about "I can't find a man" "No one wants me". All I really want is to know how to come to terms with the fact that this is the way things are.

I can't find any peace or acceptance of it at all. I've tried to keep myself busy today, doing things I needed to do, but everything was so slow and I've got such a pain in my chest from the sadness.

OP you sound so sad. I'm sorry you're feeling so low

I really do resonate with your feeling that you will never have a LTR with an adult who truly loves you for yourself.

My parents were all kinds of fucked up and certainly didn't imbue me with a feeling of self-love and security. I also had the messages from my mum of "Well he's a good earner so it's best to stay with him even if he's a dick" and "yes I know he's an abusive arsehole but what can you expect? at least you've got a man"

You said in response to a PP that you found the idea of mirror therapy quite frightening. I'm going to suggest that you look for a book called Homecoming by John Bradshaw. It is not an easy read at all, and it's still harder to act out the exercises. However, it has enabled me to find, reclaim and champion that inner child in me who still cries out for love and approval.

I can definitely say that it's also improved my parenting immeasurably. I am no longer running all my decisions through an unconscious filter of "but what would my mum think of this?"

I hope you can find peace within yourself. You sound like a lovely person, someone many people would be glad to have as a friend, if you can let them in.

it is very hard to find someone with potential and then it ends -again. Very painful so be kind to yourself and do some nice things for yourself if you can.

I had messed up parents and a mother who didn't like me and actively scapegoated me. I probably have AS too. So I can relate to a lot you say.

I was devastated by my marriage breakup several years agoaas I was very happy. But it did cause me to make a lot of changes and got me to counselling and worked through a lot of the painful stuff.

The things that helped me build a new happy life are:

1. Online support groups. I had several for several issues. And they developed into real life meetups because several of us got on well. And I have several good ongoing friendships today from these support groups. One of the groups was based on Mumsnet
2. I realised that I was a lovely and good person. I think you are starting to see this. But believe and act on it. If you can bring a little more confidence to your relationships you will find them easier. If people want to spend time with you you are a great person - the confidence can be self fulfilling. I went to a special interest group for a number of years and had a nice time. One day by chance I met a guy from the special interest group at a station completely unexpectedly and he was really pleased to see me and gave me a big hug. I realised that he really liked me genuinely and it was a good moment for me. And it has developed into a more meaningful relationship - his marriage broke up too and we have been there for each other - without any romance getting in the way -I have been dating someone else on a casual basis
3. If you give some more of yourself it really can lead to a lot of your relationship deepening and becoming more meaningful. And from that you will get care and affection and attention and even love (I dont me romantic -I mean friendship love) It is really important to build a life with friends and family providing some of that care and attention and love if you can. It then means you arent so desperate for the one romantic relationship to provide everything
4. I really believe now in being brave. I mean by taking chances -going to events agreeing to invitations out of your comfort zone as these can lead to chances to grow and develop your life
5. And I really believe that most of what life is about is about developing as a person and gaining all the experiences as you can. And also finding out about yourself - what is it that really makes your heart sing -at work and at play.And spending time doing those things - because they make you feel good
6. And Ive tried to always be open to making new friends as I live in the Greater London area and people are always moving in and leaving etc so its good to get to know new people. So at times I have gone to Meetup. done online dating and gone to community groups all of which Ive met new people through. And Ive had a bit more confidence to make those relationships work.And recently again I had the confidence to jack in the religion that I was born into and oppressed me . And I joined a non religious grouo which has really helped me and made me happy also and is likely to lead to some friendships too.

And I do get the stuff about maybe being long term on my own - it is tough and it might happen to me. Sometimes I do feel a little alone because I live far away from family. And I dont have that secure base of my marriage - or my parents who have been shocking to me recently. But I try to fill my life with happy events and make effort to spend time with people that I love. Some of my friendships have depened due to more confidence from me that we have been able to say we really love each other and are like family and that has been really special. And with a couple of good friends we facetime each other every month or couple of weeks and have a cup of tea (or something stronger) so we feel like having a real chat and it is lovely and makes you feel closer and more loved

I am dating someone who seemed a possible long term person but I dont think that will happen now . But I will be all right.

And Ford -I have ordered that book thanks - it looks really helpful!

Hope that helps OP. I know you seem snowed under by reading and counselling but I could recommend a couple of books if you felt they might help .:)

And a very lovely person on another forum gave some good advice which I've always kept in mind: Its that you need 3 things in life -1) Something or someone to love 2) Something to do 3) Something to look forward to.

Thanks, @NotTheFordType

I'm ordering that book. I really hope it helps. I've got a shelf full of 'inner child' and self help books that I've ordered over the past few years. I haven't found them particularly helpful. They seem to involve a lot of exposition; telling me why I feel like I do, and how it manifests and affects my life, but without actually providing any means of resolving it.

The difficulty I have is that I have a really good insight into why I feel like I do. On an intellectual level, I get it, on an emotional one, I fall apart. The AS means I over think and sometimes struggle to process or 'move on' from things.

I do struggle with friendships too. Largely because I'm not very good at taking an acquaintance into a friendship. I clearly do something that puts people off, but I'm not sure what it is

I have to say though, I've never really had a problem with parenting. If I'm ever not sure what to do, or how to handle something, I remember how my parents handled it, or imagine how they might, and then I do the opposite. My children have turned out pretty well so far!

I'm pleased to hear you've been able to move on from your past and found that book helpful. That gives me some hope.

How long did it take you to feel like you were making significant changes?

@Mumfun

Thank you for such a detailed reply!

It was still early days with the relationship that ended - we'd been seeing each other for 4 months. It takes me a lot longer than that to feel emotionally attached nowadays, so it wasn't that I'd poured all my hopes and expectations onto him or anything like that. But you're right, it is sad to realise it's another person to add to the "doesn't love me list".

Your suggestions are really good, I'm going to reflect on those:

1. I've been on MN for around 8 years under various names and it has been a huge help. I feel that it's helped me a lot in terms of understanding how women relate to and support each other. I'm still baffled by a lot of what I read on here, but it has helped.

2. I think that realising people genuinely like you is key to it. I think I shut a lot of people out without intending to. My son said something really nice yesterday. I told him about something a bit stupid and "typically me" that I'd done. He laughed and then just said, "promise me one thing, mum; that you'll never stop just being you". Which I thought was nice.

3. I don't have any family beyond my children and I haven't really had much in reserve to give to friends over recent years. I do try to. I know how to say "no", but I will be there for people but it still doesn't seem to result in deeper friendships. I find that once I've fulfilled my usefulness, they move on. I am part of a friendship group, but I'm very much on the periphery of it. It doesn't help that I'm the only single one now and so I'm either the spare wheel or I just don't go. They all have family and don't need their friends as much.

4. Yes the being brave thing is something I really started a few years ago. I've really pushed myself outside my comfort zone and it's been great, but I've not been able to sustain the positive effects of it.

5. Yes, absolutely to this too.

6. I've tried making new friends, but I think I must be getting some social stuff off kilter because it never seems to go beyond very superficial interactions. I do a couple of hobbies and I've tried various things over the past few years. I have made a couple of friends from these, but I'm struggling to maintain them.

I'm definitely going to use this list though to see what changes I can make.

I had a bit of a tough experience about 12 months ago that lasted for several months and only really got resolved a few weeks ago and has had a significant negative impact on me this year.

I've made some enquiries yesterday about taking on a new voluntary role and arranged to go for coffee with a woman I haven't seen for a couple of years.

I think maybe I need to be more proactive.

But then the little voice reminds me that the bottom line is that I think it's my physical attributes that make me fundamentally unloveable in a romantic sense. Or rather, they prevent men from wanting to develop a closeness with me that would lead to love. I'm very conscious that my friends are all more attractive, higher earning and more successful than me (despite having similar educational backgrounds), which makes me feel very conscious that whoever is with me would have kind of drawn the short straw. And I think they would feel it too.

Yes, please recommend books. I might already have them!

Oh and as for the advice -

You need 3 things in life -1) Something or someone to love 2) Something to do 3) Something to look forward to.

Yes, I always do that.

1. My children and my two gorgeous bunnies.

2. My work, voluntary roles, hobbies.

3. Always have something booked ahead whether it's festivals booked months in advance, youth hostelling weekends away or gigs with a band I'm in.

These can sometimes fall by the wayside.

I think I'm going to look at MeetUp too...

I think you will find Homecoming very different to the general self help books out there. It is very much not telling you about yourself, but explaining how you can find out for yourself what you need and want.

I too struggled with feelings and tended to suppress emotion with unhealthy behaviour such as binge eating and drinking. In my case this is because I was told as a child that I shouldn't feel my feelings, I had no right to have feelings.

The exercises in the book helped me to finally feel, in a safe way, the feelings of fear and pain from my childhood, and comfort myself. They are difficult and a little scary but I found them very effective.

I am now much better at feeling and expresssing the emotions I have, and can self - soothe in a healthy way.

It took me about 4 months to work through the book. I took it slowly.

Thanks, Ford. I've ordered the book.

It's funny, i had a similar thing with emotions. I was mocked for any feeling other than anger. I was ridiculed and provoked into an angry response and then they behave like i was psychotic.

I was regularly threatened with being "taken away". My mother desperately wanted me to be labelled with something serious, but not so i could be helped, so that people would be horrified at what she had to deal with and pity her whilst also admiring her strength and bravery.

It's so bad that when I've had counselling, or when i told my friend recently how i feel, i couldn't actually say the word 'love'. I call it the L Word.

My friend was pushing me to say it asking "what is it you want? Just say it. Just say the word. Just say you want to be loved" and i couldn't. I just couldn't get the word out

saturday you write beautifully. No advice per se, because i don't think that's what you need.
I am offering, though, a small nudge of encouragement to you, for whatever you want to do and however you want to live your life.

Best wishes OP. You've got this.