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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Set up by dh again

53 replies

bestfakesmile · 12/11/2017 23:40

dh has come back from a weekend away with some of his family, they called in for a cup of tea as they dropped dh back home and he ostensibly 'asks' me in front of them if its ok if they all come to visit the weekend before christmas. Its clear that its been discussed and arranged already and this is not really asking me, just telling me and doing it in front of them so I can't say what I really think.
I wouldn't mind so much but my mum has already invited us to her house along with some other relatives (who will be bringing a new baby for us to meet) and, after asking dh, I accepted her invite.
Now dh says those (admittedly slightly more distant relatives) are less important and I should back out of the previous commitment.
To add more to the situation I don't actually want any social commitments at all that weekend. I work in retail management and it will be hellish that week and I don't particularly want to be making polite chit chat when I'm totally stressed and exhausted, let alone be bloody entertaining a bus-load of dh's relations.
To further piss me off he has also 'volunteered' me to help out at a charity event this week, its completely out of my comfort zone doing all the sorts of things that i the and am really not good at. I agreed to it as felt obliged to as it was for charity but now the time has come i realise i have just been landed in a totally unnecessary and stressful situation by him, again. I'd be very happy to do some of the things I am good at to support the charity, but I have neither the skills of the experience of doing anything close to the role I have been saddled with. I'm pretty sure its going to be an embarrassing f-up but can't see a way to back out at this late stage.

OP posts:
RunRabbitRunRabbit · 13/11/2017 21:02

Codependent people typically have a poor sense of "self".

It is hard to be independent rather than codependent if you don't know who you are, if you only see yourself in terms of relationships to other people.

Maybe if you work on understanding who you are as a person, independently of anyone else, then you will find it easier to stand up for yourself in your private life.

I guess that in your professional life you have a professional self that you truly own hence having fewer problems at work.

Whisky2014 · 13/11/2017 21:13

The I think the very fast you're posting here is a good sign...you are waking up to it! Now, ok you take some time to realise but I think soon you will be seeing it for what it is straight away.

Start practicing stock phrases.."no" is a good one! "Sorry, that doesn't work for me", "dh I don't want you to volunteer me for anything ever again".
And I'd be feigning sickness for this charity thing and send him instead.

ZetaPuppis · 13/11/2017 23:24

There’s excellent advice here. I’d just like to add to not be afraid of an argument. Don’t let that fear put you off from standing your ground. Sometimes an argument is a good way to assert yourself.
You can also say ‘I am not going to argue about this’. Keep repeating if necessary and let it be the other persons problem.
It’s not easy but it’s better than being walked all over and manipulated.

bestfakesmile · 13/11/2017 23:35

Dh has been really unpleasant company tonight. Argued with both dc and tried really, really hard to drag me into it. He was cross with ds and then wanted me to not play with ds as punishment. I suggested that if dh wanted to enforce a consequence then he made it one that didn't involve me as it felt a lot like he was telling me what to do. I can't help wondering if this is because I told him that I was changing my role for the charity thing.

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ReanimatedSGB · 14/11/2017 00:10

Yes, it was. You've been disobedient, so you have to be punished. Your H is deliberately being unpleasant to you to train you into doing as you're told - and because he likes you to be anxious, and perpetually trying to please him because you need to learn that he is the most important person in the world and must be obeyed and worshiped by you.

bestfakesmile · 14/11/2017 08:50

First thing this morning he said to me 'sorry I was such an idiot last night' I said 'it did upset me' and then he just went off on one and had a massive rant at me. Perhaps I wasn't grateful enough for the apology? I did all I could not to engage with the argument that he was trying to bait me into, again. It's no fun though.

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bestfakesmile · 14/11/2017 08:55

I was trying to keep things calm for the dc and said I would be very happy to have a calm discussion about any issues when the dc aren't around but not happy to have a blazing row in front of them, especially when they're getting ready for school. Now dc are gone I have offered to make some time to talk with him today but he just said he 'doesn't feel like it now' so there's not much I can do about it I guess.

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ZetaPuppis · 14/11/2017 10:07

Well done so far op.
Don’t engage with any of that crap and carry on standing your ground. He’s still trying to control you and have everything on his terms.

Carry on with your day as normal, go out and do things as you would.
Don’t let him manipulate you anymore.

Be strong.

Pacificly · 14/11/2017 10:13

Your DH is doing his best to walk over your boundaries even new small steps of boundaries ie: changing role at voluntary work he volunteered you for.
And well done on spotting his trying to drag you into his ridiculous attempt to control your interactions with ds (because he himself was pissed off)
And yes good for you for stating your feelings on his ' being an idiot last night'

Asserting oneself is about stating clearly your own actual feelings. How others react to them is their own issue to deal with.
Start seeing stating your feelings as a sort of gift.... Here is how I feel.....what your dh does with them is his to figure out.
If he tries to bait you into a argument (to control your feelings)repeating your previously stated feelings is best course of action. As how you feel is how you feel!

HelenUrth · 14/11/2017 10:25

This man's thinking is more warped than was apparent from your first post.

He volunteers you for things you don't want to do and without discussing with you in advance. In other words he's quite happy for you to be unhappy, he even organises things so this will be the case.

You are afraid of even discussing it because it will spark a "blazing row".

Your mother hugely over reacts to comments which she feels call her perfect vision of herself into question (very familiar territory in my own life!) and punishes you excessively with the intention of stopping you doing this ever again.

You have now been trained that its your job to keep other people happy, and feel massive guilt when you don't.

Even using grey rock with your mother has been a huge challenge for you as she has escalated her emotional blackmail. (This is what these people do if they feel their "victim" is slipping out of their grasp, it's very difficult and you really need to stick with the grey rock).

You feel you need to find the assertiveness course that's exactly right for you - but maybe you should just start with "an" assertiveness course, see how you get on, and then perhaps see if you could find one that meets more specific needs?

Your husband trying to drag you into punishing one of your children due to his displeasure with said child is really chilling and you did well to stay out of it. Otherwise your children would be learning that if they don't keep dad happy, not only will he be horrible to them but you will too. I think this is really disturbing.

Interesting that you had used a phrase like "enforce a consequence" and he "apologised" this morning. I wonder if there's a little voice in his head telling him you're copping on to his behaviour and he needed to reel you back in? In any event, the voice didn't hang around long enough for him to control himself when you didn't accept his apology with gushing thanks.

You can see that he's trying to bait you which is very useful. I get the same with my mother who often trots out "I don't want to talk about it any more, you've upset me terribly" sort of shite. Because she lives a couple of hours away from me I can tell her "ok, I'll call you in a week and we'll discuss it then". Then I don't contact her in the meantime and I call her asking how she feels about what happened. She has now learned that I won't be put off so she may as well engage in a conversation. So I listen to her (usually completely warped) version of what happened, then tell her my side, using words like "when you say x, I feel y". It has helped a little but I still need to keep contact low.

When you're living with someone it's a lot harder. This man's treatment of you is unacceptable, and while it may never change, it certainly won't until you start tackling it.

For me, what has helped is setting boundaries in advance, you could try the same - e.g. "if you volunteer me for anything else again, I'm going to book a spa treatment for the day instead", "if you try to make me punish my child just because they have annoyed you, I will take them out to McDonalds for a treat". Then when whatever happens, you follow through. Do not feel that these are threats - you have the right not to be forced into doing something just because someone else has decided you should.

It seems like you're being caught on the hop a lot, my mother has done this to me too, so I sympathise. I'm still learning how to preempt her plots and not always succeeding; however when she puts me in a situation I don't want to be in, I just walk away so she hasn't really achieved what she wanted.

What I try to do with everything she says is ask myself "why is she saying/asking that, what's behind it", because it's rarely a straight and honest comment/question, there's usually a plan. I try to give myself time if possible, "I'll call you back", and consider what she might be at before giving her a response. Very frustrating way to live!

Sorry this is so long, I hope it's somewhat helpful.

Pacificly · 14/11/2017 10:33

Agreeing with pp and adding if caught on the hop with Dh (controlling your time)a stock phrase like ' I'll have to have a think about that" or " I'll think about it and get back to you" will give you space to actually think and isn't an agreement or refusal.

Butterymuffin · 14/11/2017 11:04

When I Say No, I Feel Guilty by Manuel Smith is the book for you. On Amazon, lots of second hand copies too. Get it now. Practical ways to say no to things.

bestfakesmile · 14/11/2017 12:10

Helenurth, thank you that really is helpful. Dh frequently tries to get me on 'his side' when he is dealing with the children. It's hard because I often fundamentally disagree with his methods but I do also know that he has a valid point about me being too easily manipulated by dc. As always I can see everybody's point of view in the situation but still can't make it right.
I am easily manipulated by everyone. Dh says he wouldn't have to be so hard on the dc if I stood my ground with them but I find it so difficult to stick to my guns when the people around me are engaging in massive emotional warfare to stop me.
It must be absolutely obvious to anyone that the way to get me to acquiesce to anything is for them to get emotional. Everybody does it; dh, dc, dm, work colleagues, friends. And of course it works. My dm has shown me just how far she is willing to take it to get me back in my box. When it has happened with friends I have just cut them out of my life but it's not so simple when they are family and work colleagues that you can't avoid. I have only two friends left but I keep them at a massive distance so that I feel less vulnerable.
Dh had been being supportive about this conflict with my mum up til now. I have literally no one to speak to about this except my therapist. It feels like I don't have a single ally in the world- very, very lonely.

OP posts:
HelenUrth · 14/11/2017 12:33

I know it's not the same as someone being physically there to hold your hand, but you are far from alone - all of us here are rooting for you.

timeisnotaline · 14/11/2017 14:39

'Let me know when your apology is genuine enough you are happy to talk when the children aren't around dear'

redexpat · 14/11/2017 15:04

For assertiveness I recommend listening to the guilty feminist podcast and reading nice girls dont get the corner office. Its more about work but Ive been able to apply the principles to several different non work situations.

I think you should be prepared for some fall out. It sounds as if DH is used to you rolling over so he might not like you sufdenly saying no to his demands and even making demands of your own.

bestfakesmile · 14/11/2017 15:49

Thanks for the support everyone, much appreciated. I just don't know what my next step should be, stay grey rock? Try to talk to him? I'm scared he will ramp it up to the next level, whatever that might be. I feel so exhausted by fighting these guerilla attacks. I feel like I just want out of my own life, to go somewhere where nobody knows me and start all over again.

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timeisnotaline · 14/11/2017 16:16

Based on your latest update , should your next step not be how to manage this particular situation but be serious thinking about whether this marriage is for you? Could it be with some changes? What are those changes?

bestfakesmile · 14/11/2017 16:58

We do love each other very much and he has millions of great qualities. We also have a stressful life with demands on us and a lot of responsibilities. However, I know the way I relate to other people with the 'fawn' response is the central issue with every relationship I've ever had so splitting up with dh wouldn't solve the problem, I'd just go on to inadvertently create the same situation with someone else in the future. I think maybe when he said that I wanted everyone else to change but wasn't prepared to change myself he was observing that I have changed to be less changeable iyswim (i.e. Persuaded, manipulated, easily led) and Change can be hard for people to cope with. I know my other issue is that I have a huge barrier between me and others to keep myself safe but it also keeps me isolated and makes others feel uncared for. Then I feel guilty again and lay myself down for them to walk all over me- the only way I've ever known to get approval. It's a vicious circle that doesn't benefit anyone.

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LemonShark · 14/11/2017 17:08

You already have plans for that weekend. You don't just sack off plans with someone (on one of the busiest times of the year) because something 'better' comes along or someone (husband) tries to insist hard enough. You smile and say 'oh that's a shame, we already made plans for that weekend! Let's see when we're both free'. Allow yourself to be walked all over and it's all you'll ever get.

StormTreader · 14/11/2017 17:40

" I wanted everyone else to change but wasn't prepared to change myself"

Did he mean youre not prepared to change from "someone who doesnt always do what I want" to "someone who always does what I want"?

Butterymuffin · 14/11/2017 17:43

I take that to mean 'you're now asking more of me and you're also not quite such a pushover. This is weird and unpleasant to me'.

DarkPeakScouter · 14/11/2017 17:58

Wow. Keep grey rock going and disengage. You’re doing well!

MsGameandWatching · 14/11/2017 18:01

My ex H used to do this. They’re relying on you being too well mannered to say no or call them up on their shit. The only was is to answer as though it’s you and him. So “no that’s not going to work, we already have plans, remember?” Or “no I won’t be doing that, I will have been working my ass off all week so will want some time off”. I got a reputation of being difficult and aggressive but I stopped caring tbh. You will to the more you do it.

bestfakesmile · 14/11/2017 23:50

The thing I've been thinking is that actually I am the one who is putting in the effort to change my dysfunctional ways of relating. I'm specifically not asking anyone else to change. It is me who is going through the discomfort and challenge of that but I guess just me saying no to dh for once is a massive rarity and therefore a threat- its suddenly got implications for him. I just have to stick with it though and we will both get used to it, everyone will.
I am focussing on medium chill. I find that is a better term for me as grey rock could be perceived by dh as passive aggressive and therefore inflammatory. It needs to be very clear that I am not the one getting my knickers in a twist here!
If dh chooses to invite his family that weekend, he can do so. I will see my cousin as planned and fit anything else around that commitment. No worries!

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