Old Chestnut - DH does no housework

[boylovesmeerkats]

I'm so fed up of living with someone who does no cleaning. I love my husband very much, and I know in his head he thinks he does loads more than 'the average man' but the reality is that he does hardly anything. Yes he is quite good with the kids and does their bedtime, and drops my eldest off at school in the morning, but when he's doing bedtime I'm usually working (I work from home) and if he wasn't doing the school drop off he'd be sat in his pants drinking tea until 9am anyway.
He never hoovers, wipes, mops, never changes a sheet, cleans the bathroom, rarely washes clothes (and remembers to dry them) never buys food and he's gone from cooking regularly to maybe one decent home cooked meal a month.
How is this my life??! I bring it up now and again but he gets defensive and it never gets anywhere, his reaction is that I'm angling for an argument and we often have an argument and then I'm more exhausted from that than doing the housework.
I'm not getting a cleaner, for one we can't afford it, and for two I'm not paying another woman to clean the house when there is a perfectly fit and able man who could pull his weight.
Any advice? How do I bring this up for the millionth time without him going off on one.
I've tried not doing stuff, it doesn't really work. He would be willing to live in 'needing an obsessive compulsive cleaner tv programme' level of filth. Not only that but I'm in the house way more than him, so it's me that suffers. Tempting as it is to be out of the house all of the time, we have two boys that I'm pretty attached to.

*RebeccaBunch
*
Yes it’s a big, huge turn off. But that’s pretty much his only flaw, and he happily does it all.

He grew up for 22 years having a woman follow him around cleaning up after him - she does it now when we visit her. She looks at me in disgust when he changes the baby’s nappy (without being told ). She’s actually said to him “Lils is free, you just finish your beer and she will change the nappy, you don’t have to do it dear”

He is domestically useless - he’s never had to learn.

My ex was like this. It definitely contributed to our break up. He did no washing or ironing, never vacuumed or dusted or cleaned the kitchen or bathroom. He didn’t cut the grass or cook or take out the bins. I felt like his servant. It’s hard to feel sexually attracted to someone that you feel doesn’t respect you and whom you resent hugely for not doing their share. So we stopped having sex as well. It was a corrosive situation that was a massive contributing factor in our marriage ending.

My ex was a capable man. He had a PhD in a science subject and worked in industry where he managed a team. He was detail orintated and meticulous at work but nothing of the sort at home. He’d deny it but I really believe he saw domestic tasks as beneath him and ‘woman’s work’.

I can tell you that from a domestic point of view, being a single parent is far easier in this respect. I still do everything (but i’m used to that!) but I do it knowing it is my sole responsibility and without my supposed ‘partner’ adding to my workload.

Your DH needs to know how serious this is. Marriages can and do end over things like this because they ultimately demonstrate a lack of respect and care and plenty of women decide they would rather not live like that.

How does your Ex manage now he no longer has you to pick up after him?

He manages to cook and do his washing for himself funnily enough. He has a cleaner and gardener to do the rest.

I find it sad that so many women tolerate this, and even sadder than those whose partners do their fair share are considered "lucky".

DP is currently upstairs putting laundry away. He's also mowed the lawn, chopped wood for the fire and hoovered upstairs today. That doesn't make me lucky - it's his house too! He wears clothes and needs them washing, he wants to be warm in winter and he makes a mess just as much as I do. Why shouldn't he do half the cleaning and tidying up?

My dh has gotten better. But he was pampered by his mother. And my mother still feels a man should be cooked for yet moans my dad doesn’t cook - got figure. I’m a sahm but two of our three children have severe disabilities. My dh does the odd bit of washing up and hangs out the washing and that’s about it oh and he looks after stuff like switching providers on electricity bills etc - I called bullshit as it’s not a daily or even weekly job. What a lot of men don’t seem to get is that house tasks are boring as fuck. Yes they don’t want to do them but neither do we! I’d make a list for him if he’s defensive it means he knows he’s in the wrong. Also i would start leaving his crap. It’s about respect. If he’s not hearing you say you need help then he’s being a selfish dick.

Tell him that if he feels he does pull his weight then you have a communication problem and you’d like to fix that to improve your marriage.

Tell him that he should write down all the jobs he does for the household/family so you can see what he’s done without feeling like you are nagging.

Don’t ask him to do anything. Anything he does should be of his own volition. Remind him an hour before bed to update the list. Ask him again before bed to update the list.

Of course he’ll have fuck all to add to the list. In the meantime, you write a list in secret as to what you’ve done. At the end of the week you can ask him if his list reflects what his share should be. You can produce your list at this point!

The trouble is that you have been his enabler up until this point. The time to deal with it was when you first moved in together, not after having been married or in a relationship for x number of years and after having x number of children.

These useless lumps only get worse after children as the woman invariably has time off work for pregnancy, looking after the baby and he thinks because you're at home this gives him carte blanche to do fuck all ever again. Even if you return to work full time, nothing changes.

I wouldn't be writing lists, I would tell him exactly how pathetic and useless he is, how his laziness makes you feel, that it's unacceptable and you are not prepared to continue doing it all. I would suggest he either shapes up or ships out but you may think that's a step too far.

I have read so many almost identical threads on here and it's so depressing and I'm shocked how much crap women are prepared to take to keep a man in their lives, however utterly useless they are.

I find it sad that so many women tolerate this, and even sadder than those whose partners do their fair share are considered "lucky".

^^Totally agree, WHY do you stay with this man OP?

Was he like this when you first lived together?

If yes, why did you have a baby with him - and why did you have a second baby with him?

It is beyond depressing that there are so many threads about this on Mumsnet, I'm at the point where I can hardly bother to read anymore. As another poster said, to some extent this behaviour must be enabled, do you share a bed with this uselss manchild? Does he have the energy to have sex? Why would you want to have sex with him?.

What exactly does he bring to the relationship - please don't answer 'I love him' .

this article makes me really really sad for 2 reasons.

1. its my life

2.all the well meaning, but essentially unhelpful, comments.

My DH does almost nothing. the only thing he does with any reliability is put the bins out. The rest is hit and miss. All the comments like "make a list", "tell him how you fell" etc etc....like me i suspect the OP has done all this. My husband isn't a selfish man, he simply doesn't notice and at home he is utterly incapable of holding more than one thought in his head at once, so if he is doing something while I ask him to do something else the something else will simply be forgotten by the time he has finished doing whatever he is doing at that moment in time. Telling the OP (or me) to ditch him because he doesn't respect me isn't helpful. I've done various experiments over the years to see how much he doesn't notice. We got back from holiday once. He asked where one of the bags lived, I told him. He got distracted and the bag got left in the hall. After a week I moved the bag to the bottom of the stairs, so you literally had to step over it to get up the stairs. A week after stepping over the bag to get up the stairs I blew my top. Recently he hung up the washing from the washing machine and then put it all away (yes, I should be grateful that he actually hung up the washing)....what he failed to notice that the reason the washing was damp was because it had all the wet swimming kit in it, but it hadn't actually been washed, so he put filthy (and some of it was seriously dirty) washing back in drawers and wardrobes. Honestly you couldn't make it up. The detailed level of instruction that I have to give to get ANYTHING done is more effort than doing it myself. I suspect most of this is because of the way his mother brought him up (he's an only child), but also he earns a lot of money and before me he had a house keeper and ate out all the time. He has offered to get a house keeper, but I've always refused as a) I'd die of embarrassment and b) I don't think its a good use of money or a good example to our children.
Mid huge argument yesterday he told me that me complaining all the time about him not being helpful is like him complaining that I'm too short.....there simply isn't anything he can do to change. And I know a load of you are gong to write and say he is an adult, of course he can change, but I honestly don't believe he can.
For me I've accepted that this is they way he is. Either I live with it or I leave. I value my marriage and I absolutely believe that the vast majority of children do better with 2 parents, so for now I'm sticking it out. some days are better than others.

Am a bloke but am quite sure that if I were female I would not want to date your husband. The incompetence would turn me off. Amazing that if in the army surrounded by other blokes his life would depend on having everything clean, tidy and functional but at home... nope.
My Dad behaved like this and it wrecked my relationship with him... oh, until he was about 80. May have the same effect on your kids.
If you can get him to shape up you will be doing him a huge favour. Don't just live with it.

My husband isn't a selfish man, he simply doesn't notice

I’ve posted about this before, this is why withdrawing labour doesn’t work with some people. My DH simply wouldn’t notice and when he had nothing left to wear he’d buy something else or pop something in the washing machine. What he wouldn’t do is get annoyed it got to that stage as he doesn’t care, it doesn’t feature on his radar.

However there are things that do feature on his radar, things that he sees as vital, things that I don’t see!

As much as he frustrates me, I frustrate him as I don’t see it value what he sees and values. So we been th specialise in what’s important to us and we both recognise there’s no malice or agenda to the lack of thought we both have for each other’s important items to do.

The detailed level of instruction that I have to give to get ANYTHING done is more effort than doing it myself

And there is your problem

Do you work? I bet he's hiding the money ready for when you up and leave and you'll end up in a very poor state. If you plan on leaving in the next few years you need to be into the money issue - if he pays for a house keeper then he can pay you a salary

If you were happy to vow to love, honour and be a domestic drudge then that's your choice.

However, that is obviously not the case for an awful lot of women who are sick of their OHs being fully capable of holding down in some cases very senior, complex jobs who, upon returning home, turn into lazy arses incapable of formulating a single thought regarding what was needed to maintain their home.

I would seriously question a person's true feelings for their partner if they felt it was acceptable to do nothing to share in the everyday work needed to run a home and raise children.

What do you and your DH say when MIL says that lils?

Many women fall into the trap of thinking If only I could explain this more clearly, he would change. I did all of the writing lists / sharing out jobs shite with my XH, and it didn't work because he didn't care and he was happy with the way things were. He liked the fact that I ran myself ragged looking after DD and him, because I'd given up asking him to do his share. He was international standard at passive-aggression, too.

A man will only change if he wants to change, not because you've finally succeeded in getting through to him. I'm single now, and honestly cannot contemplate ever living with a man again and doing all of the crap wifework.

I find it deeply unsexy but in our position we have three kids. Two have disabilities and now I have fuck all of a career. Plus the weight of all the crap. Apparently I can remember to fill in a kids school form but he apparently can’t. It’s led to a lot of resentment.

I agree about doing a list, then ticking it off as you go along. Then he can see things CLEARLY! And then you can SHOW IT TO HIM if its not completed (it won't be, not for more than a fortnight). I'd ask him dryly if he thinks you are his house cleaner/servant/maid.

If that doesn't work, I really would LTB. Agree 100% with whoever said on page 1, I'm nobody's maid.

I have a teenage son who is trying this on (he's 15). He will get a surprise on his 18th birthday when I tell him he can shape up or ship out. There are also ongoing surprises along the way (no pocket money).

But maybe MrsLandingham is right. The whole chart, table, write-up, discussion thing is a red herring. If he doesn't want to do it, he won't.

On a personal note, I am naturally a bit of a home-maker, but as any woman (possibly man) knows alot of work goes into making a home habitable, good food on the table, etc etc. As well as the "joys of domesticity" there can be a fair bit of grunt work involved too and when the rest of the family is not pulling its weight it can really grind you down.

My OH got much better when I figured out about the "now" and "not now" boxes. Basically I think [ warning massive generalisation ahead] men have two boxes in their heads where they can store tasks which you have requested. If you ask for anything that isn't going to be done right now, it goes in the "not now" box, and he will get progressively more irritated when you ask about it because he has already filed it for future completion, it just hasn't been done yet. Now I try only to ask for a thing that he can actually do there and then (I'm off out, can you run the hoover around? The bin is full, can you empty it? Since you have a free half an hour before x can you see to that wobbly cupboard door, etc). The difference is nothing short of a miracle. Yes I still have to make sure things get done, but we hardly ever row about it any more.

How are these man-children attractive? I don't understand why people date them in the first place, in all honesty.

What on earth is appealing about a grown man who leaves skid-marks in the toilet, dirty clothes on the floor, dirty plates in the sink and crumbs and filth on the floor?

It truly baffles me. I would never even consider a relationship with a man who wasn't capable of being a normal, functioning, hygienic human being. I can only hope the woman who put up with this bullshit teach their sons how to be normal, functioning members of society who know how to clean a toilet and tidy up after themselves.

My XH has a very well-paid job in a niche industry, but I do sometimes wonder what happens when his boss tells him to do something. Does he ignore his boss? Does he strop off in a sulk and spend two hours watching sport on the TV whilst drinking coffee and refusing to speak? Does he do a really half-arsed job so that he won't be asked to do that task again? Of course not. He (and men like this) know perfectly well that their behaviour is unacceptable and wouldn't dream of replicating it at work.

Mid huge argument yesterday he told me that me complaining all the time about him not being helpful is like him complaining that I'm too short.....there simply isn't anything he can do to change. And I know a load of you are gong to write and say he is an adult, of course he can change, but I honestly don't believe he can.

Hmmm. I also don’t notice mess. Or remember when to wash which bedding, towels etc. Dh never remembers anyone’s birthday. However, there is this really really marvellous invention called technology! We have an app! On a Saturday it pings up telling me to change and wash the bed sheets. When I have done so I “tick it off” and the annoying number by the icon disappears / reduces by 1. On a Sunday it tells me to wash the towels. On a Monday etc etc. Every month it reminds me to pay the nursery fees (must take that off -ds is at school now!) Every three months it tells me to wash the mattress protectors. Every six months it reminds me to wash the duvets / pillows.

Dh also has one which reminds him of his weekly / monthly jobs plus when it is nearly his mum / dad / brother / niece’s birthday.

It took a bit of time to put everything in in the first place and to agree which jobs were whose but now we both have it sorted and it is right in front of us every time we look at our phones.

Obviously if your husband is not intelligent enough to use a phone then that is a different manner but assuming an IQ high enough to live independently and the ability to read it should be pretty easy.

The thing that fucking ticks me off about the "make a list" stuff is that yes, sounds simple but you are then tacitly assuming responsibility for the list, and will be in charge of enforcement - and also WHY SHOULD I MAKE IT? I am not the only human with a brain capable of figuring this shit out.

At work, a manager manages, and the workers do. Yes at home more often than not the "manager" is expected to Di the lions share of the work as well as all the managing/thinking/planning. It's BS.

I like Joysmum's idea of the secret list, though, in parallel with DP making out their own list of chores.

It took a bit of time to put everything in in the first place and to agree which jobs were whose but now we both have it sorted and it is right in front of us every time we look at our phones.

That's the crucial bit you see, Mumoftwo. If a 'D'H is very happy with the status quo (like mine was) then no number of lists and alarms will make any difference. They have to buy into wanting to change in order for it to happen. I realise I am cynical because of my past experience, but honestly you cannot, in life, make anyone do anything they do not want to do. Mine didn't want to change, so we got divorced - there were other reasons, too, but this was one of the main ones.