Hopeless husbands - they can't all be like this!

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This forum is littered with posts about men who are hopeless partners: thoughtless, abusive (in every possible way), financially mean, totally uninvolved with their children, refuse to take their share of housework etc.

Ladies - why do you partner up with men like this? Is the desire to have a man at all costs, or to have children so all-encompassing that it overrides common sense and personal pride? What are you doing with these wastrels? Is there no hint before the children arrive that they might be a bit lacking in some way?

It would be lovely to have a thread where folk tell us about their great partners! It is so depressing to hear about these useless people who are bringing up the next generation.

the temptation of one party to abuse that power.

Yep that's a good summary.
Having children is very often the trigger for things to go down hill. I do not believe it's because of having children (even though some men might think it's making it harder for women to leave and mor likely to acceotbshit for the sake of the dcs).
I think its all about financial power. When women have children, they are the Ines to a lengthy maternity leave (and be paid rubbish). They are the ones to then go back part time and earn less than their partner.
And they are the ones (them and their partner) who sortnif equate earnings with worth and power. You earn mor therefore you are more worthy and have more power in the relationship. And that also means you do all the HW etc etc because the high earner just cannot possibly do thatbafter a hard day at work (and yes even when they are doing the same number if hours - if it's paid less then surely it has be less demanding and less important)

In effect, there is a hell of a lot of things at play, all deeply rooted within the society.

It’s all a bit more complicated than lazy bastard terrible husband.

My husband is a kind person, a generous person, a loving person. He was raised like a little prince by his mum. He doesn’t pick up after himself. He needs it pointing out to him when something boring needs doing like the dishwasher being emptied or the laundry being hung up. It doesn’t make him an evil exploitative bastard. But I’m also not going To pretend he’s perfect when he’s far from it.

Marriage is long, complicated and hard bloody work. I can see why people don’t go for it. I did go for it. And every day I have to try. Doesn’t mean I don’t love him or he doesn’t love me. I fully expect a flaming. But perfect marriages don’t exist, in my opinion.

I have not suggested that education in these matters should just be directed at women - but that it should be part of the core curriculum for ALL children, boys and girls. There is a message that needs getting across and school is the place for it, if it is not being taught at home, either by example or by direct discussion. There is huge scope for imaginative teaching in these matters: role play, drama, art, English etc.

I do not think we help the situation by not talking about it - it is sensitive I know, but I feel despairing at what is going on. I want to see girls boosted up and given skills and self-confidence; and boys shown the right way towards treating everyone around them (male or female) in a decent way. It is a wasted opportunity to have children pass tests in core subjects, but to ignore those aspects of their lives that will be central to their happiness - what use being able to recite a French verb declension or or the periodic table if you do not know how to treat your partner or children?

And there used to be family centres - I worked with and alongside one for many years - and they did so much to help mothers to acquire not only parenting skills but also a sense of self-worth through the education and activities that were there. But the funding has been withdrawn - far too "fluffy" for the guys counting widgets in Whitehall. Fire-fighting rather than prevention is now the name of the game. And it is young women who pay the price.

Our family centres are still open, although I believe the funding may have been cut - one lost it’s cafe which was a real shame. I have had brilliant help & support from the staff there since DD was little

My ex was well brought up. His mother was the main earner and his father did most of the childcare. He was taught to respect women. When asked, he would always say that women were equal to men, and that he would support my career. He claimed that he wanted to do an equal amount of housework and be an active father.

However, in society, he also learnt that a man is respected for being a big earner and having a good career. Even his mother, who was the earner in her family, put her son's career before mine. Also, his family treated him like the family clown, so his career was the only way, as he saw it, to gain respect and show them he should be taken seriously. How could a school education have helped there?

And because he earned more than me, and I got paid to stay at home, it made more financial sense for him to be the earner. Neither of us realised how that would affect my career really, or that he would end up turning into a 1950s "honey I'm home" type.

Why should all the tasks that used to take place in the family - childraising, teaching manners etc. - be offloaded onto the school? Kids have enough to do there as it is without making it another subject of formal teaching. And whose ideas would be taught? People have widely differing opinions on these matters.

I've been with DH for a long time and we're equally lazy. But we do what we have to do to make the household work. There have been a lot of life events which have meant circumstances change. It's not all set in stone.
People don't come on here to ask for help when things are going well so you get a skewed perception of how many useless men there are.
Plus there are the hairy handed folk who come on here to tell stories and who knows what sex or age they are...

Actually I think it's society's fault. And that it starts for both sexes from birth practically and it's a vicious circle.

Rather than asking the ladies, perhaps we should be looking at the hopeless partners and asking them why?

Good to hear that there is a family centre still open - that is very heartening news tigercub.

I do not think it is unreasonable to ask schools to have these subjects on the curriculum. I recognise the potential for one particular view being thrust down their throats, but values in education is quite a buzz word at present - it just needs to be honed down to something more specific about family life and respect within partnerships or families of whatever kind. I am sure the government could come up with a model syllabus - everything else is spelt out to the minutest atom, I am sure that some safeguards could be built in.

It should not be necessary we might say - but parents whose upbringing has been poor can become poor parents themselves, through no fault of their own.The cycle has to be broken somehow. And the influence of the internet and of porn online has skewed the influences on young people in ways that are not healthy. Objectifying women in this way is a major distortion of values.

I agree about asking the men..

Grayson Perry has some very interesting things to say about the unhealthy influences on men.

I’ve had many a similar conversation with some friends about why people, men and women, stay in relationships where they appear to be living with unsupportive, feckless, lazy, not very nice etc people. A few of my friends have admitted they would not leave because on a dual income they have money, a nice house, only have to work part time, and fairly comfortable lives. They don’t want to live alone, downsize, move to a cheaper area, have to work full time etc. I can’t see how those things are so important but it takes all sorts I suppose.

I think a lot women are trapped, or at least think they are.

Maybe it is better to live with a grumpy, arse man than it is to live on beans on toast? I know which I prefer though - beans on toast tastes quite good and it's never harmed my self-esteem

Why should all the tasks that used to take place in the family - childraising, teaching manners etc. - be offloaded onto the school? Kids have enough to do there as it is without making it another subject of formal teaching. And whose ideas would be taught? People have widely differing opinions on these matters. Agreed. It would be a woolly pile of waffle.

But better than ignoring it completely. It is what 90% of the children will do: be parents and partners. How many will be mathematicians?

I still don't think it's an issue with education.
It's an issue with society as a whole.
As a PP said, how on earth can you have a situation when we are equal and women are t treated like crap in a society that screams everywhere that men are better/have the power/will get the better career etc etc.

Education is good but if you don't change the system as a whole, it's not going to change at all.
If I was doing something, it would be about supporting political party such as the Women' Equlaity Party.
I would impose rules in TV/shows etc... about parity (and not just in number but in responsibility too)
I would apply the law regarding equal wage. Etc etc
It's only by making a big show about how women are just as good and just as respected as men that things will change IMO

Education unfortunately is neither here nor there, especially at school.
Children are learning first form what they see in the house. Then comes what people around them say and do as well as society expectations.
Education is a tiny tiny drop in the ocean.

And YY about the fact that if someone needs educating, its men first.
Yes it will help if women have rh self confidence to send them to their place. But not being constantly put down and brushed aside will make even more difference to that. And that's men that need to stop behaving like prat.

fredericapotterslawyer, what a brilliant post. You make so much sense - as does the idea of "strategic incompetence". My ex was (is) academically brilliant and excels in the workplace.

He was however almost completely useless at home, until the day we broke up and he somehow remembered to stop the direct debit into our household bills account. That proved to me that, consciously or subconsciously, he was only lazy and disorganised when it suited him.

What I'd like to see taught in school is mental health and how to look after it. If people were armed with a few tools for e.g. maintaining their self-esteem, recognising manipulation and spotting signs of depression, that would make a huge difference not just to their relationships but in many areas of life.

OP you never really know someone until you live with them. My DP was dynamic, charismatic and capable. Redundancy, his mother being ill and depression soon changed that .

MN is like trip advisor - people very rarely post about the good things, meaning you get a very biased view as people use the forums to vent.

It’s lile going to the infertility board and asking why there aren’t many BFPs.