Did you relationship start as an affair?

[Elkilil]

Mine did.. Does the guilt still consume you? I know some of you will think I deserve it.. and in some ways I guess I do. But the logical side of me doesn't think I deserve to be punished forever... I definitely known I've grown a lot since... but what is done can't be undone. The thought of living with this guilt forever scares me.

@dairymilkmuncher -- Isn't hard to trust someone who was in a relationship but having one night stands? I'm not blaming you for what happened, I just don't understand how you make peace with his behavior toward her. (no judgement).

Jeaux no one forces you to get married. We live in a part of the world where it is perfectly acceptable not to. I am NOT advocating that people stay in crushing misery, or abusive marriages but i do massively object to the idea that we continually justify causing horrific upset and disturbance and difficulty, often to children because we think we are somehow owed a lifetime of Romeo and Juliet dramatic love. I am not against divorce at all. I am against people leaving one 'dull' marriage for another shiny new relationship and leaving a trail of devastation in their wake only to realise a few years down the line that things are equally 'meh' with the new person but they can't possibly admit that. But more than that, even if the new relationship IS ' the one' I do think that if you have kids and you are perfectly ok with your current relationship or it could be if you both injected some effort and honesty into it then you do actually owe it to your spouse and children to explore every avenue to keep that together before jumping ship.

Why angry? Does a miserable parent make a better one just because you stay together?

Because we owe it to our kids to perpetuate the marriage myth?

As a single parent I prefer to bring my daughter up with a different expectation

One where she knows that relationships aren't necessarily for life and that she can chose to have a child on her own, that sharing assets with a man through marriage is not necessarily the right thing.

I see too many miserable married people around me. I think if they have a chance of happiness with someone else then good luck to them.

(And yes I have been cheated on but it said way more about my ex than it does about me)

I'm.NOT advocating staying and being miserable . I have repeatedly said that. I'm advocating people making more of an effort to make themselves not miserable rather than just buggering off. i am a single parent too and my kids, despite my best efforts are entirely aware that their dad chose ow over them, that he moved miles away from them for her. They desperately want us to be together because we weren't miserable, arguing, tense, angry. We were just busy working parents who had lost sight of the need to prioritise the relationship and he found a willing 'soul mate' to blow smoke up his arse about how he deserved more. I know it would be easy to dismiss this as a bitter rant from a scorned woman..wouldn't that make it easy to dismiss my view? I'm not bitter, or jealous. I'm fucking furious that my kids have to had to deal with this and i will never forgive him or her (who knew us all) for being so incredibly selfish. But that is my situation...not everyone's. The problem with threads like this is that people only take what they want from each post. I am.not saying stay and be miserable. I am saying that the cost of unbelievably fucking high and in my mind there is v v little worth paying it for.

I feel as the affair partner who didn't have a child.. I don't think I really understood back then. I just thought if you weren't happy then don't stay, children adjust.. better to do it while they are younger. My parents had so much tension in the house when I was young I often thought they should just divorce. My Father then went on to have a lengthy affair. Now I think differently about staying for children, you should at least try harder. but I don't blame him, he just worked with what he had at the time.. I know how much guilt he had for leaving, I know how much he thought about going back for the sake of the child... but I think In the end he knew the marriage wouldn't last. I trust my DP, I know all about his past.. he knows mine. We have made a point of being very honest with each other.

I would be much more sanguine about all these 'great dads' who had no choice but to leave if 50/50 care was the norm and they didn't just set up shop with the new partner, pay the bare legal.minimum cms maintenance and have the children 1 or 2 nights out of every 14. The woman virtually always gets left to deal with every bit of real parenting in these cases no matter how much the man bleats about missing his kids. Organise 50/50, Take on half of the mental.load and i might be more open to the idea that the affair wasn't at least in part running away from.the grown up drudgery of parenting.

Yes. He left his 7 year marriage and I called my wedding/engagement off so we could be together. That was in 2008 - we are now expecting DC2 and are still very happy together. I initially felt guilt, but, as I've said in an old post before, the lengths his ex went to to get revenge and 'destroy' him (her words) meant that I ended up feeling anything but.

Yes here too. Back in 1994. Christmas party fumble which lasted over 3 yrs. neither of us were married and no kids. He was ready to move in with her when I hurricaned into his life. We also worked together and people did kinda realise.

Nearly 20 yrs later (of official dating time) we have an 11 yr marriage, 3 kids, lots of animals and a huge mortgage.

And no guilt never entered my mind. We fell in love.

Angrybird123 Great dad in my case means shared care, Appointments, Involved in schooling. Definitely not a weekend dad and never wanted to be. We live seperatley, and the time he has with the child is his time aside from some small visits. This will be increased over time when everything is finalised.

Angry lots of women won’t allow 50/50. We were doing almost 50/50 plus holidays etc but his ex said it was too much and the past couple of years have been her stop starting contact / making up lies/ asking for more cma etc . I agree that it should be 50/50 it just doesn’t seem to happen often .

@CoyoteCafe that’s a totally different issue and if I hadn’t has his kid as a result of the first ONS I would have probably never spoke to him again when I realised he wasn’t single....took almost three years for us to get into a proper relationship and I didn’t 100% trust him straight away because of what he had done and I presume that just takes time in any relationship to build.

I do trust him now though, we’ve grown together, life changes and so do people, I know I’m not the same as was back in 2007

DP's mates knew my ex slightly. They said to DP, "Be careful mate, she'll dump you like she dumped him".

My mates knew DP (one of them had dated him). They said to me, "He's a womaniser, a player, he'll soon get bored and start looking around."

26 years and 4 kids later, we're both still very happy and neither of us has come anywhere near cheating. Sometimes you just know someone is right for you.

I don't think I'd have half as much guilt if a child wasn't involved and even know the child had adjusted so well because it's pretty much all he has ever known and although she wouldn't admit it the ex seems to be enjoying aspects of her new life, it doesn't stop my guilt. I feel like I don't deserve to be happy with my DP because we cheated. I'd rather be less caring and happy.. then care like I do.

@angrybird123 -- I agree with you. We've watched a number of marriages end when the husband rose in the corporate ladder and he seemed to trade up. A bit like getting a fancier car.

Op, I think guilt is entirely normal when you've treated an innocent person very badly, and shows that you are a decent empathic human being.

You say that his wife wasn't abusive or awful, yet he cheated on her several times before leaving her for you.

I can tell you that finding out that the person you loved more than anyone, that you shared a history and happy memories and children with, that you thought had your back, has lied to you every day whilst whispering sweet nothings to another woman is utterly and absolutely devastating.

I spent a long time feeling like I was going mad, knowing the temperature of my marriage had changed but not knowing why, being told I was imagining it, crying myself to sleep.

Several years have passed but I will never recover. I feel ugly and disgusting, stupid for believing him. I doubt my own judgment of people. I don't trust anyone. I certainly haven't dated. Counselling hasn't helped.

Reading posts on mn often upset me because ow often refers to the awful abusive ex, and I know he said those things about me and she believed him but they weren't true (he's since apologised). People also seem to react badly to the wife becoming angry or vengeful. I didn't but I can see how some women feel so terribly wronged that they lash out in anger, hurt and frustration.

And the most upsetting of all : we were soulmates, it just happened, we're very happy now and he'd never do it to me.

Because what does that say about his first wife, of years or decades, that he proposed to and had children with? That she was a mistake or a blip? Why was it ok to treat her like that, to humiliate her and lie to her? Why does your right to be soulmates trump her right to be treated with respect and kindness?

We're all just out here, pretending we're fine to minimise the humiliation, to protect our children and to avoid looking like the bitter stereotypical ex that bores people and disgusts people in equal measure.

Having said that, finding out ow felt guilty about it wouldn't help me really. Your guilt isn't helping anyone. I tend to think you should draw a line under it and let it go.

Also think Angrybird has made a really valid point (expressed very well) - my own experience scarily similar... of course every case is different but having felt guilty about how we got together (he was in LTR, no kids) but justified it through him being 'the one' which I truly believed for many years, marriage and kids, he did up and leave completely out of the blue one day for ow.. it was 18 years later and I really didn't see it coming. As Angrybird says - I think it's a matter of trust and respect - if he's done this before it shows he's capable of doing it again - we believe it was worth it because we were 'the one' but now I think that's just bollocks.... The worst thing for me was the total disrespect for us as a family and no attempt to discuss anything or resolve any problems (which I didn't know existed) before taking off .. also leads me to question the circumstances around us getting together (the state of their relationship) and question everything we had together for all those years. Horrible to realise you couldn't have trusted the person you loved the most but I think some people are just very secretive, put their own needs before anything else and are very good at pretending they're something they're not.

RainyApril thanks for replying, although she knows about me she has no hard proof except she knows we worked together and hung up shortly after the split. I pretty much stayed in the distance for the next 2 years allowing them to sort what needed to be sorted out between them. She doesn't know about the previous cheatings either as most were just one night stands when out with friends etc. sometimes I wonder if we should come clean.. but then I think it's more about clearing my own conscious then helping her. She seems to be ok, going out with friends, I believe she is dating although not seriously. Do you think the unknowing why he left is worse or do you think she should know?

He never told me stories or lies about her... I know he feels bad for how he treated her and I think the main reason it wouldn't happen to me if because I've seen how it's affected him, I honestly think he has learnt from his mistake. I don't think he is proud of the person he was, in hindsight it's easy to say we would do things differently.

When I said stayed in the distance I don't mean from him. But I didn't plaster our relationship around, I didn't meet his friends and family.. and not because they didn't know about us. Just because we felt it was better for all involved to go slower.

Thanks Cromarty..it's very hard to get the point across without simply being accused of bitterness but you express very well how it feels. OP you don't sound like an awful person and as pp said thevfact that you recognise that there should be guilt here is a good thing. It's done and can't be undone but perhaps try and learn from it - I have known several people on either side of a cheating situation and used my experiences of both sides to try and help them. But as I said above, I think we need to be less 'well it's love so that trumps everything ' and be a little more circumspect. .look at the whole . Oh and as a pp said just because she appears to be enjoying aspects of her new life does not let you off the hook. I like my (rare) child free time and make the most of it but put it in a scale against having a full time life partner and co-parent??? No, it doesn't come close.

I am part of a support group and some of the stories are staggering.

Men who only leave because their wife kicks them out. Regularly begging to come home while telling the ow they chose to leave their abusive ex.

Men who choose to leave but reappear at a later date to say that their new relationship is now as meh as the old one and they regret everything.

One man in his 60s who has been with ow for over 20yrs, longer than his first wife, but recently showed his first wife that he has made substantial provision for her in his will.

It's all so sad. Devastated wives. New partners who, knowing he is capable of lying convincingly, choose to believe they're exempt. Children who learn the truth at some point and are robbed of the dependable dad they deserve.

It's not worth it. If you're unhappy, leave before looking for someone else. If you meet your soulmate, leave your wife honourably because a soulmate will wait for you to be free. Start your new relationship on the right footing, of honesty and decency. In years to come, when people ask how you met, you can tell an honest story instead of averting your eyes shiftily before trotting out your rehearsed lie.

Obviously none of this helps you op but you can't change the past. I hope he shoulders most of the guilt. Speaking for myself, all I would expect from you is some consideration whenever our paths cross and that you treat my children kindly.

Sorry op, my massive second post crossed with yours. It sounds like you have tried to be considerate, and you can't do any more than that now.

If she doesn't know why he left, I would honestly leave it that way. I wish I didn't know.

Maybe it might help to come clean with the ex. Unlike others, I don’t think you’re feeling guilty for being with him (if you were your relationship would not have progressed) but that you don’t want to be seen as the ow or that you’re only just realising how wrong you were. Don’t tell the ex, it won’t go well for you or your partner (or their child). Besides it’s not her problem it’s yours. I personally think you should break up with him if being with him makes you feel like shit - no man’s worth it, and I think many ow stay in shitty relationships and convince themselves they’re with ‘the one’ because they don’t want to be seen as the ‘evil’ ow/mistress. You deserve to be with someone who doesn’t cheat and who doesn’t make you feel like crap.

Might not help

Nope, never has and never will.

In my book it's the shittiest thing you can do to someone.

My marriage ended because of an affair but I didn't leave for the OM.

I was in an emotionally abusive relationship and in all reality should have left before it got to the point of me having had an affair, because now I am labelled as a cheat whereas in fact there was so much more which went before that, and ironically my ex's new partner has recently accused him of the same kind of abuse he subjected me to during our relationship.

While I don't believe that affairs are black and white and I cannot subscribe to the MN mantra that all cheats are scum and all the cheated on are sweet innocent victims and all bitterness is because of the hurt caused by the cheat and nothing more, I do think that all the talk of how 'we couldn't be happier,' and 'he's my soulmate,' says more about the new couple than anything else. It's a bit like all those relationships on facebook where people need to be seen to be happy and in love and full of how into each other you are. Because in truth if you leave a relationship to be with someone else then there is also a certain amount of pressure to make it work, otherwise leaving has been for nothing.

And saying that 'he would never do it to me,' shows a lack of thought on so many levels. I can promise that I would never cheat on my current partner, but not because he's my current partner, but because having been there once and been responsible for the fallout, I can say with absolute certainty that I would never again do it to anyone.