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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

When ‘the spark’ is missing but the relationship is good...

74 replies

Blinkingecksake · 10/10/2017 16:42

Please give me some honest views. After an emotionally abusive long marriage, I’ll be darned if I know what a good relationship looks like. I have been with new partner for a year. He is a good man. Kind, honest, helpful, has his faults as do I. Sex is good. Kissing not so good. But..... for me there’s just not that ‘spark’, I don’t overly fancy him. I fancied my ex but he treated me terrribly. Can good relationships exist without a spark? Is it just that the honeymoon period is over? If I ended it I honestly don’t know if I’d be relieved or sad. I don’t like people getting close to me. He deserves better than this. The reasons I have range from petty (things about his physical appearance) to genuine, such as I can’t see how we could ever merge our families and live together. Much as I’m loving my independence since my divorce and separation, deep down I don’t want to always be on my own.

Sorry if this is garbled. I just don’t know how I should feel and am not very good at trusting what I do feel, having allowed myself to be talked into staying in an awful marriage for so long. My gut says this relationship isnt right for me but I can’t give any credible reason why not. He said it would devastate him if we ended, how can I do that to him with no decent reason? Help?!

OP posts:
Blinkingecksake · 12/10/2017 16:38

Thanks again for more helpful info, so appreciated. For an intelligent person, I can’t believe how much i lack judgement and lack faith in my gut feelings. It’s because I’ve got relationship decisions so very wrong in the past, coupled with a long and unhealthy marriage where I wasn’t respected at all. My boyfriend in many ways treats me so well, it’s hard to understand why I would want to walk away. To answer your question I’d been single for around 18 months and in this relationship just over a year.

The relationship might feel like a burden now but for a long time it didn’t, which adds to my confusion. Thanks Bertie for the counselling and website ideas, I’ll look at both. And thanks for the ‘shining light’ analogy, I love that, sounds lovelier safer and more permanent than ‘spark!’.

Coyote thanks also for the link to the article, again very useful. So much of these issues are I think for me rooted in low self-esteem and not having the confidence to walk away and worrying too much about other people’s feelings, as though they are more important than my own. However I know staying with him for fear of hurting him is disrespectful. But how can you end it with someone who is depressed? Being selfish I can see is good but also very difficult!

I think a friend with benefits might have been a better path for me with nobody getting hurt....

OP posts:
CoyoteCafe · 12/10/2017 17:31

But how can you end it with someone who is depressed?

Gently and honestly.

I struggle with cyclical depression, so I do have compassion for him. However, I am (and other people with depression are) 100% responsible for my own mental health. It's not a reason for someone else to be with me, or to be my friend. That would be degrading and insulting. (Think about how gross it would be if my DH were with me because I'm so depressed and he feels sorry for me. Ick, especially sex. Ick Ick Ick)

Depression can be an excuse to be co-dependent, and when it is, the depressed person lacks incentive to tend to their own mental health. Them staying depressed is helpful to the status quo of the relationship. It can become a role to play. (Back to me and my DH, if I thought he were with me because I'm such a pathetic depressed person, why would go to the trouble to do all the little things that help me stay on an emotional even keel? Wouldn't it make sense to be an even more pathetically depressed person? After all, that would bring more stability.)

Depression be used to try to keep another person engaged. When it is, the depressed person isn't building relationships, they are just taking hostages. Because of this statement, "He said it would devastate him if we ended," I can't help but wonder if he is using his depression as a way to hold you hostage.

Some things you could say that are both true and kind:

  1. You've enjoyed getting to know him this year. Overall, dating him has been a great experience.
  1. You are too soon out of your marriage for things to get serious. You just aren't ready.
  1. You wish him well and hope that he finds his happiness.
  1. I don't know if it is better to be straight about the fact that you just don't see long term potential, that there isn't the spark or to leave that out. May be it would help him understand that it is OVER, may be he doesn't need to hear that and there's no point pouring salt in the wound.

I think that he does sound a little emotionally manipulative. Nothing on the scale of you ex, just a little bit. It might be easier to end it over the phone with notes in front of you rather than in person where he can try to manipulate more.

On the bright side, this was a way, way, way heathier relationship than you've been in before, so give yourself a big pat on the back for that. Also give yourself credit for being selfish in a very healthy way. It will get easier with practice. Smile

Worriedrose · 12/10/2017 19:34

Great post coyote
I will add, not only is this a healthier relationship, but you seem to be approaching it in a healthier way. Questioning things in your life is not a bad thing at all!
I have a feeling you'll be ok Flowers

Thebluedog · 12/10/2017 20:36

Sounds like you've settled for safe. BUT it's the 'settled' bit that I couldn't do. I was in an abusive marriage for 10 years and the bf after my divorce was the polar opposite of my ex. It was just what I needed at the time but it didn't last.

I'm pleased to say that you can indeed have exciting, sexy, intelligent AND safe - but it's taken me 20 years to find it....

I too am a people pleaser, but you may find he'll take the split better than you expect, because if you don't feel the spark, it's unlikely he does either.

HipsterAssassin · 12/10/2017 21:20

6 months between an abusive marriage and a new relationship is just not long enough. Not at all. You need time to steady the ship. This is all about you and your needs. Good luck OP Flowers

BertieBotts · 12/10/2017 21:29

A year is too early for somebody to be a burden. If they are a burden after a year then it's not a great sign overall. After a few years, yes, it's normal for there to be times when one of you carries the other, but that's different.

If that makes sense? You are free to disagree with us. Try to take the information on board and check it against what you feel. That's a useful test. We don't know him or you and aren't necessarily right. So you can think about it and decide yes, they're right, this isn't what I want; or no, actually, I feel differently; or yes, this part fits, but that part doesn't.

I agree that 6 months is a very short time too.

Blinkingecksake · 12/10/2017 23:18

Thanks again everyone. Not had a chance to really be on here this eve but your thoughtful responses are again much appreciated. I’ll read themselves properly tomorrow. But just quickly to say I was single for 18 months (not 6) before I met my partner. It’s really quite a heavy relationship, very involved on both sides with our children as well. Tho didn’t rush to meet each other’s children, 9 months in before we did that. I just wish I didn’t feel so bloody emotionally immature, fall in love, f

OP posts:
Blinkingecksake · 12/10/2017 23:21

Argh! Screen keeps hanging and not letting me edit or type! I was saying... wish I didn’t fall in love so hard, then out of it a year later. Apart from my marriage (which god only knows why I stayed in), this is a bad pattern. He deserves better. He’s not perfect and does try to manipulate me, but he’s honest and open and deserves more. Will reply properly tomorrow, honestly touched by this forum, such kind people willing to take their time to help confused people like me! Thank you Flowers

OP posts:
LuckLuckLUCK · 12/10/2017 23:23

You don't need to have 'good enough' reasons to finish with someone. You just need to want to finish with them. That is enough.

It sounds like you're staying with him out of gratitude.

Worriedrose · 12/10/2017 23:44

Oh blinking
You sound like such a lovely person. Please put yourself first
I know it's confusing. I found an email I had written to someone Ioved saying what I wanted and I realised even though I had written it down to them, it was totally lost, and I had lost the thought of it too, by always Putting other people first

Not sure if that makes sense. But think about what you really want.
Write it down to us if you want, and then think about if you're getting any of the things on the list

blueshoes · 13/10/2017 00:15

I don't get the feeling he is nice. If he is nice, he is using it to get something from you. Using depression to guilt you into staying is manipulative. You are not feeling the spark because you feel guilty at some level and beholden to him. I hope I am wrong.

Blinkingecksake · 13/10/2017 14:25

Thanks worried, I am really trying to put myself first. But I just can't put into words why it isn't right and I think he'll talk me back in to it. My reasons don't sound all that valid, or they sound too shallow. Basically, our relationship has been very intense, very heavy, involved and actually, I just want a bit more fun. He says we can go back to having more fun, but I'm not sure we can, our dynamic has evolved into this heavy, intense, talking and analysing all the time. It does my head in!! I had so much angst and drama in my marriage, I enjoyed being single and only worrying about me and the children. But in the early days I enjoyed this relationship very much, as someone else said, the appeal of someone having such good qualities that were the total opposite of my useless ex, and just being treated so well was s attractive.

But, the first signs of my boyfriend actually needing me i.e. the depression, and I want to run for the hills! So that's why I feel selfish as well I suppose. To be fair, turns out he has been depressed for a while but has been hiding it from me as he didn't want to burden me. He can't win on that one, after dealing with ex's significant mental health (untreated) for many years it does scare me off, but his lack of honesty in not telling me (though I can understand why he didn't), also puts me off, as we have been very honest with each other. For example, he knows I am having serious doubts about us. So he tells he loses, he doesn't tell me he loses because I think he's just become very miserable.

I watched First Dates last night and I got ridiculously jealous about the people who could confidently say ;thanks but no thanks. No second date'. I honestly think I have ended up in a relationship with anyone who has ever shown the slightest interest in me and taken me on a date, going right back to when I was 15 and just starting out. I've always been so grateful that I've gone along with whoever has liked me. But then found my voice and dumped them about a year later, always leaving the man upset. Same in this case, I knew from the off I didn't really fancy him yet here I am 18 months in and he is in deep and I'm suddenly back pedalling. It's not a nice way to treat people.

I know exactly what you mean Worried about losing yourself. Was chatting to a friend about things and I said that he wasn't happy always being the bottom of the pile, expects me to put kids first but just now and again wanted to feel that I was putting some thought or energy into him or us. My friend looked incredulous and said what rubbish, you know who is always bottom of your pile? You!! And its true really. But staying with him is good for me in some ways, he's quite good company and we have good sex. So there's me being shallow and selfish! Argh I don't know. I bore myself with it all going round in circles. If anyone is actually still reading this give yourself a pat on the back! But it's therapeutic and good thinking out loud for me if nothing else!!

OP posts:
ravenmum · 13/10/2017 14:53

He said it would devastate him if we ended, how can I do that to him with no decent reason?

a) hopefully he is saying that as in "I really do love you" rather than as in guilting you into staying?

b) The reasons lie in you, not in him, and really, that is the best kind of reason to end a relationship. I've had a relationship ended with the blame placed squarely on me - one "good reason" after the other for why I was a bad wife, a pain to live with. Does he really want you to find a load of faults in him, explaining why you don't want to be with him? I think not!

Blinkingecksake · 13/10/2017 15:08

Good point ravenmum! I used to think when people said ‘it’s not you, it’s me’ they were using it as an excuse. But I can see for me that’s exactly what it is! It really (mostly!) isn’t him, it’s me and where I’m at. He knows I’m having doubts and was quite frank and said totally up to you, I’m confident about how I feel and I want to be with you but for you, it’s up to you. Can’t say fairer than that really....

OP posts:
Worriedrose · 13/10/2017 16:53

There's actually nothing worse than finding out someone stayed because they felt sorry for you. I've been there. I've been on the other side too.
Why don't you have a bit of a break and sort out your thoughts and what's going on in your head, with the counselling etc.

It feels like your stuck in the eye of the storm currently

QuiteLikely5 · 13/10/2017 17:07

If you were married with children I'd encourage you to stay but you aren't and there is no good reason to hang around

I would tell him sharpish that you don't want to commit to him and want to remain friends.

You have nothing to lose and as they say the truth will set you free

CoyoteCafe · 13/10/2017 17:35

"But I just can't put into words why it isn't right and I think he'll talk me back in to it."

Do you have anything at his place you need to pick up?

The relationship sounds like a drag, and he sounds awful. The more you say, and the more I think "run"! And in my first post on this thread, I was very neutral!

(Maybe watch the first episode of Coupling when Steve tries to end it with crazy Jane).

CoyoteCafe · 13/10/2017 17:45

Just figured something out -- the more you say, the more it sounds like you have tried to end it, tried to create more space, tried to make it more fun, but that he keeps sucking you back in.

The reason you feel like your reasons aren't "good enough" is because he has told you they aren't. Has his depression gotten worse? It's part of the trap.

Please see this for what it is -- him being emotionally abusive and controlling. Run.

blueshoes · 13/10/2017 20:00

OP, your last post confirmed it for me that you should run for the hills. This is not going to get better and it is better for all concerned to end it now.

LuckLuckLUCK · 13/10/2017 22:07

Oh hid just dump him already. He's only a boyfriend, you don't owe him anything!!!

Blinkingecksake · 15/10/2017 08:45

Sorry, I know this thread is dragging a bit.... I’m genuinely interested to know what I’ve said that leads people to post I should dump him and run for the hills and that he is emotionally abusive and controlling? He hid the depression because he didn’t want me to worry about him or feel obliged to help him. I honestly am not trying to justify anything but because my understanding of relationships is so poor after 20 years in a terrible marriage I don’t always see things as I should. The thought of not seeing him again actually makes me very sad, in many ways he is so kind, caring, helps me and my children on many different levels, is patient with me and my difficult ways... but what am I missing that makes some of say he is controlling and abusive? All I know is it doesn’t feel quite right but my reasons around spark seem shallow because in essence I see him as a good man! Argh help!

OP posts:
HipsterAssassin · 15/10/2017 09:45

I am not sure he is controllingand abusive from what you've posted, OP.

Nor do I think having a pattern of being loved up for a year is 'wrong'

I also don't think it's necessarily unsurprising that he told you late on about his mental health if it's in the context of getting to know each other slowly but if the relationship had already got heavy and intense by the time he told you it seems to me like there is more 'needing' going on in your relationship and not enough 'wanting', OP. Which probably makes you want to run. Because of what you went through in your marriage. I wonder if you've outgrown this relationship and it's no longer what you want?

That jealous feeling you had while watching First Dates is one you need to listen to...

HipsterAssassin · 15/10/2017 09:48

Dumping a good man is really really tough, OP. After what you've been through. Reeeealllly tough. It takes huge guts. But also good because it means you are starting to hone in on what you want.

ChipInTheSugar · 15/10/2017 09:57

Omg OP I feel like youve written my life down in this post (except the list of annoying things he does is longer in my case). So not much to add really but following for the strength to end it too Confused

BertieBotts · 15/10/2017 12:06

I don't think there's evidence here that he's controlling or abusive either. My post was more saying be aware that in your position you're quite likely to have chosen someone who is, not that I felt there were signs of it in your post. You hadn't really given enough information either way at that point, although I did feel that the comment about "It would devastate me if you left" is a red flag. (Which doesn't mean defo abusive, just a warning sign that something could be, but could also be explained innocently).

Like I said in my second comment, this is really your judgement call. You can of course use our comments as a kind of testing ground to see how you feel about them, but in the end we don't know him and we don't know you. YOU are the one in this relationship and only you get to decide how you feel about it and whether it's worth it or not!

FWIW, the comment about him saying it's up to you, I want to be with you but it's your decision is a green flag/good sign in my book - that says to me that he's emotionally on a level where he doesn't feel like he owns you or can manipulate you into staying and will respect your decision.

I think people are telling you to dump him, because in your earlier posts on this thread you sounded quite down on him and almost like you were only staying with him because you felt you should. If that's not how you feel about the relationship, then perhaps those responses aren't quite right.

What about searching for threads about green flags/hallmarks of good relationships and see how he fits in those?

Re the depression - this is usually a lifelong issue and won't go away. If you cannot handle it you need to be honest with yourself because it will come back and come back and come back repeatedly, even if the times in between are good. This may sound harsh but you are actually allowed to be selfish here. Don't think about him and the effect on him. Try to be introspective and ask yourself - genuinely - can I cope with this potentially every few months for the rest of my life? You do not have to feel guilty if you can't. You are not his rescuer, you are not his carer. You are a person who loves him (maybe) - but you absolutely have to draw a line under what you can handle. Just because he does not have the choice to walk away from his depression, it does not make you selfish if you exercise your choice to do so.

Real relationships do have low points, that's okay - what the mark of a healthy relationship is, is how the low points make you feel. In an abusive relationship the low points can actually scrape at your soul, you're crying all the time, you're stressed, anxious, you feel utterly shit to the point that every fibre of your being is invested into how to get the relationship to the good/happy state again (and we insist on judging our relationships by the high points, instead of the low points, which isn't quite right). In a healthy relationship the low points will be... manageable. And I think that's the point. You've got to feel that you can cope with the lows of this particular person, because we all have them. I'm sure you aren't stellar company at all times yourself! It isn't about expecting a relationship to be perfect, it's about acknowledging that faults can vary and deciding if these ones are acceptable to you.

Actually here's a good article you might like. I found it very interesting a couple of years ago. The language is a bit pretentious but I found it absolutely spot on in its accuracy.

thephilosophersmail.com/relationships/how-we-end-up-marrying-the-wrong-people/