Can we survive his emotional affair

[Vivienne547]

I'm not the kind of person who posts but I can't quite find a thread that may help me.
For a few months my DH appeared to be distant he had always been very affectionate towards me. When asked he said everything was fine. After a while I decided to try and rekindle deep intimacy. He still appeared distant. He had new work colleagues one young girl who works for him and one make more his age. He became obsessed with every message sent within their group laughing out loud to every innapropriate message. I said nothing as I trusted him and hoped he would realise that it was not appropriate with the young girl. He seemed to reach this point and said he'd noticed one of the group restrained from posting and asked me my thoughts. So I calmly told him I thought it was unprofessional and not appropriate. He partially agreed. I thought that was the end. But as he grew distant and stopped sharing these posts I ended looking at his phone. I thought I'd find the group chat still going, but instead I found a private thread with this girl 15 years younger. It's hard to explain there was no emotional messages, though once he called her honey, but memes about innuendos. Their conversation was more about food and drink and what they did at the weekend. But he'd filmed her dancing around stupidly in the office, selfies together, her wrapped up in tissue. Anyway, I confronted him and he admitted it was inappropriate but then said he'd not felt we'd been close for 2 years. Worse in last year. To cut a long story short I'm all over the place. He said there's no emotion with this girl but he Like's her personality and it's the first time in years he's worked with a group of people he can have a laugh with. He only hired her 6 months ago. He says he loves me, that he needs intimacy otherwise the little things don't matter as much. I apologised and said I didn't know and that he should have been brave enough to tell me. I'm trying to bring that closeness back as he said that's all he wants. But I feel like his love us still closed off from me, like he's trying but that deep affection is not there. Can anyone help sort my emotions and give me hope it will be ok? I feel determined then lost, angry then hurt, fight then flight, one minute I want to leave then all I want is for us to get past this.

The one big difference here is when I caught my husband out (albeit 11 years later) and discovered it was over and above just overtexting on both thier sides, he was extremely upset at how devastated I was and didnt know how to ever make it right , because it wasnt a current 'thing'. . he said a few defensive things on his side initially on being confronted, but they were not related to me , more things like 'everything was horrible at the time, business, mum dying etc' . he always made it clear that it was nothing I had done/hadnt done etc. as he said , it was him being a total dick , plain and simple and not observing any boundaries that would upset me, he got caught up in a pretty one sided crush that went too far on his side.. . with ref to your husbands comments about closeness-- is this basically just another word for he doesnt think he gets enough sex?? (join maybe 70% of the male population there) or is it other things?? he just isnt feeling a 'connection' the same, because he sure as hell isnt exactly encouraging you to get more connected by carrying on this kind of juvenile crap. Tell him straight, he stops the non stop out of work banter etc or you will have to consider a separation.

I haven't had any experience of this kind of situation op, but my marriage has just finished (for completely different reasons from yours). The one thing that I have definitely learnt, is that if I was in a shaky relationship again I would put all my cards on the table and make it absolutely clear how I felt and what I expected. Not in an aggressive way, but to try to move forward honestly and openly.

The problem is that you seem to be frightened of upsetting him or making the situation worse, and this has led to you tiptoeing around him while he just carries on in the same way. I understand your concerns, but I think you have to be brave here and make it completely clear that he is upsetting you and that the texting has to stop.

I think you will feel much better once you have taken control of the situation.

SO he employed someone HE fancied and is playing the long game.....

but his is all your fault OP... he is a disgusting man

I'm so mixed up. I really do hear what you are all saying. And I must admit this has helped me become angry and feel like, yep it's not my fault he did this, but I just want to give him time to come round. If he doesn't we've both lost everything, albeit he'll justify it whereas I'll remain utterly heart broken. This is the first time in my life I completely trusted someone. He's not the person I met but he may snap out of it. It may be a mid life crisis. It does seem the more intimacy I give him and loving messages the less he cares. But if I pull back he'll use that to justify this lack of closeness he desperately needs and therefore I'll be in the wrong again.
If I walk away at this moment I'll regret not trying. Many people have gone through this and come out the other side.
But yes, the biggest thing I can't understand is why he isn't trying or remorseful. That bit I am totally hurt by.

But yes, the biggest thing I can't understand is why he isn't trying or remorseful
Because he's got you both! He's having his cake and eating it. Comfy home life and flirty younger woman on the side. He's not going to think about what he might lose unless he's actually confronted with losing it.

SchnitzelVonKrumm it's hard to explain. Now isn't the right time to issue ultimatums. I know everyone will scream at me, and I am thankful for everyone taking the time to try and help me with this, but his head is in a place of not thinking it's wrong. That we were in a rut. I want to give it time to see if he will see the error of it all, and if not then I'll have to be brave. I've not lost anything by trying to improve this situation, but I may just gain us back.
Honestly all the messages are helping me to stop crying and actually assess the situation clearer. I am feeling stronger but no less hurt. So thank you.x

My IC and a lawyer I consulted both said, di not rush into leaving someone because of pride unless it's something so bad that it's a 100% deal breaker. Instead watch the actions and give it time and keep yourself strong making sure he is aware of 'your' deal breakers. If after 6 months he hasn't stopped or more comes to light, then reassess

Hi OP - i hope you are feeling a bit better after all the wonderful advice on here. If I'm being honest - i can't see you leaving this man for anything, because you are desperate to hold onto him - to hold on to the ideal of a family unit, which i totally get. Nevermind that he has hurt you, disrespected you and is openly flirting with a younger girl, he knows you are a little hurt by it/uncomfortable but he doesn't care, because he knows you won't do anything. Because YOU want to save the marriage.

Why would he change - the way he sees it now, he has his wife and a younger girl to flirt with on the side. I cannot believe you apologised to him too - intimacy is a two way thing. Not just you. He's upset because you have been distant? Has he tried ? No? Why? Ask yourself this.

You are with much more than how he is treating you. I think the first port of call is making all the text messages stop. No more selfies, pictures of her in tissue and dancing round whatever it is. It is so unprofessional that I'm baffled its carrying on.

Hope you feel better soon, and sorry if my post is harsh.

I'm totally baffled as to how you think he's suddenly going to realise how inappropriate it is and stop it himself. You've already told him and he's ignored you. What do you think will change his mind?
I do have sympathy for what you're feeling. Struggling with similar myself, although further down the line. It's true that the man you married was never like this. They change so much when feeling entitled to something more, midlife crisis, or whatever it is. I certainly would not have touched my oh with a barge pole if I'd initially seen the personality he has displayed more recently.

I don't think you need to leave him but you also need not pussyfoot around what he's done. His interest in this young woman is undermining your marriage and is hurtful and disrespectful to you. You deserve better and you need to make clear that you expect better.

I'm going through the exact same thing but a year (yes, a YEAR) down the line. He employed a younger (16 years younger to be precise) woman who he then started texting each night and even at 7:30am on Sunday mornings. He took (possibly still takes) her to lunch every day and even bought her a present whilst we were on our family holiday (we have two DC) because it fitted in with the flirtatious jokes they'd been having. He was also a lovely family man who I trusted implicitly, I thought he'd wake up or she'd start talking about harassment and it would end - it took me months to realise neither of these things were going to happen and I was utterly destroyed. He had no interest in me, the house, the children and no remorse for what he was inflicting on us. I've come to the conclusion that I can't change him, I can only change myself and I need to get out and move on. I think it will hit him but by then I suspect it will be too late. He tried to blame me, also stating lack of intimacy and went as far as suggesting my "black mood" (which was due to his relationship with her) drove him closer to her because he needed to confide in someone because I was making it difficult!!! It's a middle aged man delusion and it also follows the midlife crisis script to the letter.
I can't offer you much except I was driven to utter desperation and depression but having sorted out my finances and getting the practical stuff sorted out I feel a lot stronger. I now care a lot less and am just coasting along, I've decided to leave it now until after Christmas. Oddly, since I stopped caring he seems to want to make it work with me, although I'm sure he still wants all of his cake and I don't believe him when he says he's keeping it all professional. Stay strong, do practical things and keep your friends and family close. I sent him the relate description of what an emotional affair is and what it can do to a relationship. Seeing it written down made him realise that just because you don't stick your (somewhat dysfunctional) knob into someone doesn't mean that you're not being unfaithful. It all takes time and yours might wake up OR you might hit rock bottom then come back fighting and leave. Whatever happens take your time and lean on your friends, it took me months to open up but when I did everyone was so supportive it gave me so much strength.
Stay strong and you're not alone xx

You are doing the pick me dance.

He is not doing the keep me dance. He is just pulling your strings.

This is really bad op. I really think it would be beneficial for you to spend some time on infidelity support sites. Talk about marriage is good. You are grossly underestimating this affair and you're also facilitating it. It's now no longer an affair but a sanctioned " friendship". The distancing you mention is worrying also.

If you visit infidelity forums you will see there is a predictable script. All cheaters say and do the same things. Most betrayed spouses do and say the same things too. The general saying is that in order to save your marriage you must be willing to lose it.

this girl came along and her innapropriate behaviour

Holy fuck!!!! Yeah, HER behaviour is inappropriate.

He's not the person I met but he may snap out of it.

Again....HOLY FUCK!
This is the person you met. It's just taken this long to show it.

Op-i can't advise really as I don't know you or him. But I do know that when my h had an inappropriate emotional affair with a colleague I didn't tackle it for a long time. They did it in plain sight-he even bought her around to our house for dinner-which made me think 'no, it's all in my head'...but it wasn't...he admitted it once and has since denied it again and again...but I know what I saw and what I sensed... I didn't want to believe it or upset the status quo so I let it go-we moved away temporarily for work and that seemed to put and end to it.
He too started saying the woman was 'messed up', and he had only been trying to help her-and I chose to try and believe it.
It ate away at our marriage-and we separated.He then went on to lie to me and manipulate the situation in far worse ways.We are now divorced-some of it my doing, but his EA and what happened after it are the larger part of the reasons why we are no longer together.

It's an extreme example-but please please be careful-and realise your own worth...just because he says he doesn't recognise his own behaviour doesn't mean you shouldn't recognise it...(and it also doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't realise exactly what he's doing but thinks he can get away with it for longer by telling you it's all innocent and you are mad to think it).

Hi all. Thank you for all your words of advice. It's making me very conflicted. I hear what everyone is saying. I'm still torn. I'm not a weak person, and I can be on my own. I just don't want to be there just yet.
He came home last night a lot earlier than usual. I wasn't ready, was planning to look nice, he greeted me with a big hug and kiss. I laughed and said oh not my best look, I was in slippers and gown hair tied up, he looked at me and said it doesn't matter as long as it's me. We had a nice evening. He was warmer. However, he's gone to work really smartened up. I may be reading into It, and a lot of people Will, but I'm trying to believe it's just because work gear is normally not that smart and he said it actually felt nice to go to work smart. All I can do is see if it continues. She's on holiday tomorrow for rest of week.
I do see some hope at the minute, so I'll still fight for what we had. But I will walk if I find anything not acceptable or if he doesn't start making real effort with me. I do know my self worth and I know he is lucky to have me. Time will tell if he remembers that too.

That's the spirit Vivienne and if he doesn't, well he is a very silly man

You can recover from this. I speak as one who has (5 years ago) and out marriage is better than ever but different. To achieve but both of you need to work at it together. No denial, no gaslighting, etc and it takes work. If you want more info on how we tackled it, contact me privately.

What's standing out here for me is, his utter selfishness and unkindness in distancing himself from your daughter, and you. Just like that. How unpleasant. I hope this young girl at work doesn't want or consider him as a partner, and that he gets rejected if he tries to go beyond laughs messages and flirting. That he makes a fool of himself. Because that's the only way this will stop - he's 'drunk' on new possibilities, a new and younger woman. So it won't be him putting a stop to it. On the other hand the distancing may be part of preparation to either leave, or stay with you and have his life his own way on his own terms.

It's hard when you love someone. But you need to get active and angry now I think. Him having it all his own way now is not a good thing. All cards on the table it's time to have a very blunt talk.

He's out with dinner with her and his boss tonight.

I'm really lost on this one. Because having an inappropriate relationship at work puts the company at risk, it seems very, very, very weird to me that he took her along on a dinner with his boss. So weird that I question the story. The ONLY way the relationship ends OK from the company's point of view is for her to decide to leave the firm (unlikely), or for them to end up together. He can't end it without risking liability. Bosses don't like that because it effects their numbers. So I question if that's really what happened -- I question if his boss was even there.

My advice -- get your ducks in a row. Make copies of important documents, sort out what is going on with finances, talk to a solicitor. Do everything you need to do incase you decide to walk away. What's going on in your career? If you work PT, go FT. If you need more training, get it.

If he has a moment of clarity that you actually matter to him, no harm done. If not, at least you are ready for the next stage of your life.

And stop kidding yourself -- lots of men are with women who are 15 years younger than them that they met at work. It happens so often that I'm truly sick of company events where I'm expected to talk to these younger women as if they are my peers.

I'm sorry you are going through this.

But coyote-often these people truly believe no one else at work has noticed it...or they dress it up as just a great working relationship... it goes on all the time...

Hi Vivienne, you are living now the exact same hell I was in 8 weeks ago. I've not been brave enough to post my own thread, but you are describing my situation to a T.

I am still in hell, but let's say it's a bit of a purgatory rather than full-on hell. I've been married almost 14 years to this (I thought) wonderful man, he was always affectionate and he is an amazing father to our 3 children (13, 10 and 5). I am from abroad so I travel to my country every other year and stay there for about 4-6 weeks. My dad died in December and I thought I and the children could spend the summer with her as she is so lonely and not well either. This woman joined his team back in February- 18 years younger and totally his type. He is the leader of the team and this girl reports to someone who reports to my husband. It's a small team though and they all sit together. He would mention her quite often and I would tease him- I never got upset because I knew that my husband cheating was simply not an option.

I set foot on that plane back at the end of July full of happiness and dreams, to see my mother and also spend a part of the country we hadn't been before, so my children could see part of their heritage, etc. I updated him frequently and so did he but once we got home to my mum she was vicious- throwing cutting remarks at me, that I have abandoned her for 15 years, that I ruined her life, etc... I withdrew and didn't keep in touch with my H as much (am not blaming myself, it's just part of the events)

So anyway, I saw some photos of a day out with him, this woman and another lady in my daughter's iPod which has his Apple ID (men's stupidity knows no boundaries) but as it was as a group thought nothing of it. I was hurt he didn't tell me about it though. Later on, I checked the FB Messenger onthe iPod (his too) and he was chatting to this woman from 7pm to midnight- chat was pretty innocent at first but then it got more and more emotional- with him telling her things he has only told me about his childhood, his ambitions, dreams, etc. Judging from the chat this woman is pretty stupid and really just gives him a boost with emojis and happy faces and cute FB stickers, which pissed me off big time, I feel I've been changed, me, an educated, well-read, well travelled mature woman for this stupid giggling girl?
They had another 3 outings,I found out by the chats on FB. When I flew back I decided to leave everything in the past, just forget, he seemed happy to see us and he was very affectionate when he picked us up at Heathrow. But his phone would.not.stop.buzzing! The first 2 weeks back were hell for me, she would be texting him or sending whatsapp messages and he replied, sometimes smiling as he read them. I became furious and we got everything out in the open, I told him I knew about the outings and he was shocked. He was VERY defensive at first, which didnt help me and my first weeks back were spent crying. He still will not admit an emotional (or sexual) affair to this date, (I am aware that they may well have happened and I'm working on that premise) but he has admitted that going out alone with this woman was inappropriate and stupid and has apologised for it. Someone saw them in one of the outings and texted me while I was still away- I told him about the heartache, the embarrassment and also the HUGE implications this has to our family!

His attitude has changed. He is much more affectionate now, our sex life has really improved and we spend as much time together as we can. His work phone (they communicate through Whatsapp- moved on from FB now!) is switched off as soon as he comes home and isn't switched back on until he is at the office the next day. The interesting twist in my story is that the woman has become a bit of a bunny boiler... we do parkrun on Saturday mornings, she has decided to turn up to "support" runners as she wouldn't touch exercise with a barge pole. H organised ballroom dancing lessons for us and she has turned up because "she always wanted to learn". This is stressing me out. She is going to public places, so we can't stop her, but H keeps holding my hand, hugging and kissing me in front of her.

I have no idea how this is going to end up and I have no practical advice for you- I have had the 30-min free divorce solicitor chat and it doesn't look too good.if I stay here. But if I were to go back to my country with the kids and he gave me maintenance and I got a job out there, we would be happy. And out of sight, out of mind. Right now I am becoming stronger, both physically and mentally. I want to work at this and see if it can be saved. So far he is doing the right actions, I am absolutely sick of the woman popping out from the bushes at every moment but I might have a word with her if this carries on.

It was good to write all that!! Hope everything improves soon. x

Ellenisia, I'm really glad that your marriage is going well and that your DH took the whole thing as a massive wake up call.

The interesting twist in my story is that the woman has become a bit of a bunny boiler

This happened big time at a firm my DH worked for. One of the higher ups was having an affair (very openly, full on affair) but had no intentions of leaving his wife and his kids. When the young woman in the office figured out that she was never going to Mrs anything, she was only the side piece, she lost it. Because of liability, they couldn't fire her, but she was a total mess loudly at work and disrupting the work environment . They created a job for her in another city (she was an administrative assistant) and moved her there to put an end to the chaos. I don't know how much the wife knew or found out.

these people truly believe no one else at work has noticed... it goes on all the time

Yeah, but so much stuff comes out and then the people look like fools. It's mind boggling to me that people let this stuff get started because it so often ends so so badly. (but I'm old, so I've seen more relationships blow up).

How is he ' objectifying ' her !?

What did you find on his phone !?

Was / is the banter between them just good natured, risqué, emotionally or sexually charged !?