When dc refuse to see ex

[Strawberryshortcake40]

A few weeks ago my dc asked to be collected from their dad's and have refused to see him since. This has followed months of them saying they weren't happy there but this time they are adamant they won't go again.
In my opinion the problem is entirely on his side and he should be acting in a way that means the dc WANT to see him. I do not want to keep them with me, but I also do not and will not force them into a situation they feel uncomfortable.
They are 15 and 10.
However obviously he sees this as me stopping him seeing his children and is insistent it is resolved asap.
Anybody else had this kind of issue and found a way of dealing with it?

Let dd and her therapist deal with it from dd point of view.
Let therapist refer to As
The triggering if process will help your d's he will get the chance to speak to ss and give his version .
Any final report and recommendation you can use if he goes to court

Agree with others also to block and not respond.
Ex still hassling with email and mags about how it is my fault dd1 eont see him but I ignore
Dd1 now 17 she says she doesn't trust him. No interest in pursuing therapy with him (He keeps suggesting this). Tho there have been at least some non threatening or whiny texts to her such as congrats on as results etc

Conclusion the best thing you can do is encourage the therapist to report yo as and trigger the process of safeguarding investigation and report. Let them interview and deal with ex. Keep d's and dd away during the process unless they desire to see hi m. And you could make it safe e.g. meet for macdonalds public place.

To report to SS

And don't bother trying to explain.

I have from time to time let tip but honestly he won't listen and it s pointless

You have no needc to respond to anything unless it is an arrangement for the dc

Let therapist refer to SS a s a p

If you send him that warning message, it will sound as if you are colluding with him.
Stand back & let the therapist & SS get on with their jobs.

TBH, it sounds as if YOU need protecting from him as much as your children.
Concentrate on keeping all of you safe & happy.
Engage with him as little as possible, and record EVERYTHING.

yes, I think you should jump at SS being involved, especially with a referral from a professional. He takes no notice of you, as you say he thinks he can just wear you all down.

Social services will not take your kids away and will not force a child in these circumstances to see their father. But they will support you in fast tracking the help you need to get him to back off.

I would be wary of being reluctant to engage with them, although I can understand because of the scare stories about them, and also you seem to be scared of infuriating him.

He may well accuse you of things, but those are unsubstantiated claims from his imagination, and the therapy that your daughter is having has not thrown up anything bad on your side I assume. Social services are absolutely 100% used to hearing abusive men make up shit when challenged on their own behaviour - its classic bullying. If your daughter has been in therapy for a while they will have a very clear picture of the dynamic - have they seen other therapists before this? Because they can be asked for evidence too as part of a fact finding process. They will also understand your fear in aggravating him too, so your initial reluctance to follow through would be deemed a normal knee jerk reaction. However I would phone the therapist today and say that you were scared, but realise you need to put the children's welfare first, and allow her to report. As others say, when things get that serious it is likely she will do it anyway, and you want to be on the right footing from the start.

And DONT tell him. Truly, you have told him, it seems, for weeks (and probably before that) that his behaviour is unacceptable. He doesnt even listen to you I doubt, its probably like that teacher on 'Charlie Brown' that just went 'mwahmwahmwah' in the background - it sounds as if he might only listen when it comes from an official source, and possibly only from a male one at that.

and stop answering the phone - he can leave a message or email.
don't talk to him.
at 10 and 15 there is very little need for you to be involved anyway. in a normal situation bother would be texting dad to arrange times and places.

There's a strong co dependent dynamic to your relationship with your Ex, which unfortunately is hurting your children. You're choosing not to detach in some misguided attempt to retain control over a situation you can't control and have never controlled.

Hopefully, your DD's therapist will prioritise her over the codependent relationship you have with their abuser.

I can sympathise with this. My ex isn't abusive but my DD's want nothing to do with him because he's behaved like a twat since the divorce (and joined a religious cult!) Of course it's me putting them up to it because a 17 and 18 year old can't possibly have a mind of their own! They've tried talking to him but he refuses to accept that he's done anything wrong.
I would respect your DC's wishes and have no contact with him. Let the therapist do their job and report him. That way he can't blame you.

You need to take a massive step back here OP and realise the damage you are inadvertently doing.
Suggesting to the therapist that she shouldn't report to SS is an ENORMOUS MISTAKE. If SS investigate and find you colluded then it may affect your custody of your children. Phone her asap and retract that and support her unconditionally.
Just STOP contacting him at all. All contact to be through a new email account. No phone calls, no direct contact. Declare intention to report for harassment if this is ignored. Consider a non-mol order.
Block his number. Tell him the children are allowed to phone him anytime they want to. Get new email accounts for the children so he can contact them if he wants, and you have a written record.
STOP trying to make him see what he's doing. STOP trying to explain what he needs to do to make this right.
Focus on your DC and try to minimise his effect on their lives as well as your own.

In the nicest way, because it's obvious you're stressed and love your DC, but your behaviour is not helping. You must take a huge step away from him.

Think of the poor examples that your mitigating, tip toeing and trying to reason with a bully is setting for your children.

What you should be doing, is supporting your children in accepting that their father is who he is and who he is and what he does, is not a reflection of who they are. Loving him and liking him are not mutually exclusive and it’s perfectly legitimate for your children to hold conflicting opinions about their abusive father but they do need you to demonstrate healthy boundaries.

You should welcome the therapist reporting to SS.

The main help you need is to strengthen your backbone to help protect your DC from their father. Which includes not allowing him to contact you (one email or voice mail box).

Lots of people on MN have had SS involvement with their children. Even more have an SS file (they record ever notification but you may never know about most). In my experience they are helpful if massively overstretched but can sometimes be the key to accessing help.

I will speak with the therapist again this week.

Tbh there have been several conversations with them over the last year or so where they have said my DC need to keep seeing their father even when I have been concerned they shouldn't. They have been teaching DC how to live with his behaviour and cope with it, as it was viewed that she was too ill to deal with any fallout (and that her illness could be used as an excuse for her not wanting to see him, in court). So I don't feel I'm colluding with him, more that there has been a massive turn around from them.

DCs other therapist has said for some time that it may be best for them not to see him, but again that she is very fragile and what is most important is stability, even if it's not an ideal situation. Again it's been a case of managing it. They are aware and supportive of DC not seeing ex, but only if she remains well. She has actually become iller in the past week so now it's a case of trying to hold her steady.

So far from trying to put him first, what I'm trying to do is keep things calm. Switching off the phone for example. Because the alternative - SS questioning, police involvement etc will possibly make DD very ill indeed. So I need to make sure the DC are coping as best they can and for now form some kind of barrier for them.

The conflicting advice of the therapists doesn't explain why you are still trying to attempt to placate a man who doesn't care about the physical and emotional wellbeing of his children. Unfortunately, I still get the impression that not wanting SS involvement has more to do with the impact on you then it does with the fragility of your DD's mh.

In my personal experience, whereas it can be difficult to go through the upheaval that is police contact, etc, in the long term it benefited me and DS.
Because the abuse did stop for the most part. Boundaries were established. Routines were established and safety measures were put in place.
A constant long term medium level of abuse and harassment can only be worse, IMO.
My DS knows he's safe and that he will not have to do anything he doesn't want.

Because I did so on their advice? Sorry I thought I made that clear?

SS impact on me? What do I have to hide? No it's as I have said that it is imperative DCs lives remain calm. Her therapist agreed with me last week, so I don't feel I'm colliding with him. More that I don't frankly give a shit what happens to him but I don't want him to take my DC down with him.

I have no desire to see my DD back in a place where she is suicidal about to be sectioned and unable to function when I've battled so hard to help her get better.

Long-term surely it makes sense to get those boundaries established and have him under control (as such) with intervention from the ss, so that you can provide a safe calm environment that he doesn't interfere with and you can maintain.

Placating him may seem essential to preserve calm now, but it's never-ending and won't solve anything, because he's liable to kick off or turn up and put on pressure whenever the mood strikes him.

In my experience SS involvement doesn't necessarily mean police or real upset. At least not for your DC, their father might be upset.

Don't tell him anything that tips him off. All he will do is use it against you and say you're behind all the reporting. He won't thank you for trying to be even handed.

Actually I found that my child was validated by questioning and consequences of the court/judges etc. because it was an outside 'fixed' authority, someone who validated our voices and who put things in place to stop the abuse. It was powerful

It allowed her voice to be heard and recognised and it finally gave her REAL power against someone who had lied and manipulated.

It stopped being a constant attempt to try to prove he was lying, to get him to accept that he was wrong about shit. It was absolutely clear cut confirmation that she was right. Same as when I took him to court. I was on an absolute high because finally someone took notice and stepped in and stopped him. Told him that what he was doing was unacceptable and he could not do it any more. And if he did then the whole force of the law would come crashing down on him.

Plus it meant that I had no contact with him whatsoever - any contact initiated at my daughters request was arranged via a 3rd party. He was not allowed to contact me via email nor phone, not text. He couldnt come to the house or the school or attempt to go near her without my written permission. It was like the biggest weight off my shoulders

If dd doesn't want to see ex then surely it s best she doesn't?

Thing is...you don't need to manage this. Not on your own.Get ss involved and let them handle it. If dd is unwell she doesn't see him. Unless she wants to and it's managed by her mental health support.

Police will be involved if you reporyi ng assault but basically they will hand it over to ss. If your dd is under mh professionals you refer ss to them.they can support any interviews if needed.