When dc refuse to see ex

[Strawberryshortcake40]

A few weeks ago my dc asked to be collected from their dad's and have refused to see him since. This has followed months of them saying they weren't happy there but this time they are adamant they won't go again.
In my opinion the problem is entirely on his side and he should be acting in a way that means the dc WANT to see him. I do not want to keep them with me, but I also do not and will not force them into a situation they feel uncomfortable.
They are 15 and 10.
However obviously he sees this as me stopping him seeing his children and is insistent it is resolved asap.
Anybody else had this kind of issue and found a way of dealing with it?

He doesn't have the right to do that, tho - just turn up whenever he feels like it, expect you to explain your whereabouts and be answerable to him. I can see that it's very difficult, but you have the right to live life without him constantly keeping track of you. I'd look at what you can do legally to get him to back the hell off.

If I were you I'd block him for a while. When the kids are with you, what he has to say is not important.

He's never going to reflect on his own behaviour...not ever.

I think you need to protect dc’s from him. Are the police involved if he is harassing you like this?

If he is affecting you all to this extent you need to take more steps. You need to protect them from him. If he comes round to your house if you don’t respond to his calls ring the police & ask them to deal with him. It’s not your fault that he’s like this but you do need to protect them from him. You don’t owe him anything. If he scares his own children he needs to be kept away from them & you’ll never be able to reason with him so shouldn’t try.

Good luck op

I have a similar situation. Dd is v reluctant to see her father for many reasons. He blames me. I'm finding it very hard not to tell him just to stay out of her life completely but don't see why I should keep on trying to maintain their contact. I have no helpful advice I'm afraid, but in my case, I've told dd I won't make her do anything she doesn't want to and have told him that of he wants to see her he has to meet some of her demands ( not have gf present on her time with him). Unlikely to happen. I won't push it.

The children should not be made to spend time with an abusive father.
Listen to your children, they are old enough to make the decision not to have any contact with him.
The anxiety surrounding these visits is going to affect them long term.

My kids were similar ages when they decided they would not go and see their father anymore. I was relieved that they made that decision as he had gone to court for access.
I was called to mediation and told the mediator that my children were not being subjected to abuse by him ever again and that was the end of that!

It must be so difficult dealing with him, and I think you're doing the right thing in protecting your children and not making them see him. But responding to all his messages isn't helping him see that he shouldn't be doing this.

I would consider sending him a long message telling him that it's not reasonable for him to make so many demands on you; and that the children don't want to see him because he intimidated them, and it would be better if he did something to reassure them rather than making even more demands on them like this. Perhaps tell him that you are only going to read his messages once a week from now on, and that you will then reply to them within 48 hours IF you think there's a need to reply. But that constant demands to know what you're doing and where you are are inappropriate and harassing, and you won't put up with it.

I hope you find a way through this. Because it's impossible as it stands.

I have explained to him what the issue is several times, verbally and in writing. Yet this morning he called to speak to dc asking them to see him and saying he doesn't know what he's done. Just seems to think he will wear them/me down enough to give in.

Perhaps if you tell him that you're only going to read and respond to his messages once a week, and then stick to it? I know it's hard but setting and enforcing boundaries is the only way you can make change happen.

The problem is you're still 'trying to make him see' when the issue is, he doesn't want to. The balls in your court but you keep battling it back to him in the hope he will be anything other than he's always been.

Your opaque boundaries are part of the problem and until you acknowledge that and adjust them accordingly, you will continue to make his issues, your issues.

Detach!

Am following, as we have been in a very similar situation. My children are now 12 and 9 and both have autism so are even more vulnerable than just their age. They haven't seen their dad since March, other than him visiting supervised on each of their birthdays. There was a violent episode with him losing his temper involved too, which I reported to the police, to be told it's not illegal to hit your children. It's also not illegal to scare your children to the point they barricade themselves in a room out of fear .
After a few weeks, he stopped bothering to ask if he could see them. They have very sporadic contact via messaging and phone, whereby the children can control whether they speak to him or not.
Six months later, the 12 yo has astounded me with her maturity and understanding of the situation, and we've soon adjusted to our new normal.
I'm sure he's telling everyone I'm the big bad evil ex-wife who has stopped him seeing the kids (we live in the same town and share some acquaintances), but he can say what he wants, him and the kids know what really happened that day - and sadly more has come out since about the weeks/months/years leading up to it. He's had 6 months to fight their decision not to see him, and hasn't bothered.

It's harassment and you should ask for police advice.

Set rules of contact to you and block his number if necessary.

As for the children, tell him to go to court if he wants to.

What Lweji says.

I agree with the other posters here.

Back up your children 100% - they dont feel safe and they dont want to see him. My own daughter did this aged 6 and until he actually engaged with the legal process we had no contact whatsoever, and any communication through a solicitor only, because of his tendency to phone and rant and, like your case, blame me for her refusal to see him. Would not accept any responsibility at all that his behaviour was frightening.

Eventually when she was, I think about 10-11 he only had limited supervised contact (granted as a caveat to an ongoing prohibitive steps order I took out against him to prevent him coming anywhere near us without my written permission), which later collapsed after a couple of years because his basic behaviour remained the same and again, she refused to see him. She hasnt seen him since. Recently he did the same (actually worse) with his son from another relationship and now again only has very limited supervised contact. When they went to court the judge told them that fathers had rights, but the mum said 'depends on what kind of father - and produced an awful amount of documentation to prove he was not the golden boy he made out to be - including a letter from my daughter denying that he had a good ongoing relationship with her, as he had claimed.

You also have a huge amount of paperwork that proves how he has adversely affected your older DD, and at 15 she is old enough to be asked and her opinion to be respected by the court. Given the circumstances I would very much suspect that the 10 year old would be listened to as well. He seems to forget that contact is for the CHILD'S benefit, not because the dad wants it - they are not time share possessions.

If I were in your shoes I would tell him very clearly that the children currently do not wish to see him. His behaviour has caused this. That if he wants to force the issue he is welcome to see a solicitor and take it to court but, until the children express that they wish to resume contact you do not wish to thrash over any old ground and will not be answering any more texts/calls. I would also tell him explicitly not to come to your home/work as this is getting to the point of harassment, and that if he does so you will be calling the police.

I would seriously look into issuing a non mol or injunction to keep him away/stop him contacting you. From your OP it has been a few weeks and it doesnt look like either he is accepting or doing anything to resolve the issue, nor the children are changing their mind about wanting to see him. You are at a stalemate and his harassment is not acceptable.

Clear line in sand. You will contact him if they change their mind. He must not contact you/come round from this point. Only contact through a solicitor. Police if he does. and then an injunction if needed.

My DD's therapist told me this week that she feels she has to report him to social services. For now I have requested she doesn't as if the dc are not seeing him I don't see the point. Also what I don't want is to get into some kind of situation where he accuses me of things in return and I get them investigating me. Or that we end up in a situation where the dc have supervised contact in a contact centre or something like that.

But I'm aware she may still report. Should I send him a final email saying because of his behaviour this will probably happen?

One way or another it is highly likely that this will have an impact on your children in the future. Some kind of resolution would probably be in everyone's interest but I'm not sure how you get to that stage.

Don't get involved. Particularly not in warning him about the therapist.

When I say don't get involved is in the process with the therapist.

You're an "interested party" and not neutral. If they told the therapist about what happened, you shouldn't be seen to influence it.

On the other hand, if you know what he did and didn't report him and haven't taken measures to protect your children (such as supervised contact) then your judgement may be questioned.
Is this what you're afraid of?

Don't be afraid to protect your children. They deserve to be safe and treated with respect.

Sounds horrible. I would definitely NOT contact him about the social services referral - why on earth would you do that? If she reports him and finds out you warned him then that might look like you were colluding with him!

Tell the police that he is harrassing you and then do whatever they advise, to the letter. Ensure they know he turns up at your house unannounced. Show them all the texts/emails etc.

Don't tell him you are doing this - have no discussion at all with him at all. There is nothing to discuss.

I meant more as a "because of your behaviour it seems likely social services will now be involved (not at my instigation) therefore I am once again requesting you wait until the DC contact you or wish to see you"

I wouldn't warn him. And I wouldn't stop the therapist from reporting him now, either. It takes time for these things to filter through and by the time it's all in hand he might be seeing your children again. This will help protect them.

I wouldn't try to stop the therapist or any other professional from reporting him to social services in case it could be construed as you not prioritising the safeguarding of your DC.
I don't know much about it, but surely having SS involved due to his abusive behaviour would help you in setting appropriate boundaries with him for you and the DCs?

Personally, I would contact your therapist and state that you fully understand and support her if in her professional opinion she feels it is necessary to report him. You asking her not to could be seen as obstruction or worse, and what then happens if the kids do want to see him and you allow it?

"I have explained to him what the issue is several times, verbally and in writing. Yet this morning he called to speak to dc asking them to see him and saying he doesn't know what he's done. Just seems to think he will wear them/me down enough to give in."

Yes he is a bully, who has inflicted DV on your precious children - he is now harassing them. YOU are giving him too much rope and not listening to the unanimous direction of your children, the professionals and everyone else with experience and clear judgement on this forum.

Listen to them.

You need to get help for the FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) that YOU have for him that is paralysing you to take the decisive action needed to protect you children. WA can help you.

But in the interim. block and manage all contact so that it is all controlled and recorded.

You need to protect your children from his harassment which is clearly escalating. Every email and text to a folder. Scheduled times for calls - which are recorded and you are present to intervene and close the call when it becomes inappropriate.

Support the therapist in her reporting to SS. Tho I dont think it is your call - she is required to do this professionally - she is probably only giving you a heads-up before the shit hits the fan (for him).

Take care xxx

OP, why aren't you listening to the therapist, who believes your dc need SS intervention to protect them from their father?

He seems to have a lot of power over you still, but you have legal options and support you could access. You need to protect your dc, and get some really strong boundaries up between you and him.

Don't say anything to him.
Reporting and involving Ss was a goid move and I should have pursued earlier.
It followed specific incident when dd1 was 14. Went thru whole process of interviews reports etc.
The outcome was clear that dd1 did not need to see him and he was told to back off.
He was also told v clearly not to offload on dd2 who still sees him.