Made mistake - how do I come back

[teaandcakeat8]

Met guy online, he seemed keen. I had too much alcohol and slept with him on the second date. After that he seemed gradually less keen and last week I asked if I was wasting my time. He said he didn't have time for a relationship and we agreed to keep it casual. I'm not sure if I'm really into him anyway.

Tonight I was feeling down about being single. We were messaging and I asked what I had done wrong and if it was because I slept with him too soon that he lost interest.

His response implied he thinks I'm crazy for even bringing it up. I think I've ruined the fwb and feel stupid and humiliated.

How do I now retain my dignity and get my confident back?

I shagged DH on the second date AND I met him in a bar.

It's fine to enjoy sex

It's fine to want a relationship.

Those things aren't mutually exclusive. I think you need to really rate yourself. 'What did I do wrong'? Nonsense! Don't ask those questions. Ask yourself: is this guy a keeper? Is he good in bed? Is he worth it? Do I want what he's offering? Stop discounting yourself.

If he lost interest because you had sex early on, he's not exactly about to admit it is he?!

FWIW I agree with wisedad.

Just to add one thing to the mostly wise advice here - a key element that stood out from your post to me was that you had too much to drink on that second date and that's how you explain your decision to sleep with him. Which is different to making the choice sober and is probably exacerbating the regret.

I'm no tee-totaller and I've slept with people on first dates so this is not a holier than thou perspective, but in light of your regrets, insecurities and perhaps confidence issues, limiting the alcohol could be a good practical first move in avoiding this kind of situation. Just so you feel more in control and more yourself next time, able to make decisions you'll stand by in the light of day, even if the guy still turns out to be a letdown.

I thought wisedad advice was pretty much spot on.
Men are simple creatures and their needs and desires have changed little during the centuries.
We know that, on the whole, your average man likes - the chase, to be seen with an attractive woman, and to talk about himself ( with you asking him questions about him so he can answer). This goes back to the needs a man has which have dominated his psyche since cave man times. Just like women have better periphal vision than men so they could protect their young while the men were out hunting, we cannot evolve fast enough to keep up with our advancement as a species.

If you want to have sex on the first or second date then that's fine if it's your choice too. But it's unlikely that this will lead to a relationship ( having said that, I had two female who both ended up married to men they had met out drunk and had first night sex with so it does happen.).

I think a lot of the advice on here has been good- you would have come across as needy and men cannot bear that. And a FWB situation is unlikely to do anything than further decimate your damaged self esteem.
Date. Just date. Date several men. Go out for a meal, cinema, drink, coffee etc and get to know them. You say that you dont want to be single so you are most certainly on the look out for a relationship.
Don't waste your time on men who want to keep it ' casual'. That just means they want you for sex.
See if your friends/ family know of any single men and try to get a relaxed introduction.
I really feel for you. I'm married but feel that if I was single now I would probably stay single as its a bloody minefield out there now.
Try and build on your self esteem. I know it's an old chestnut but you have to love yourself first. If you don't think you are good enough why would anybody else?
And have some dating fun! Don't just ignore ( or swipe the wrong way whatever it is you do now!) the not so attractive men. They can often be the nicest funniest ones as they are not up their own arses.
Good luck sweetheart. I really hope you find somebody who you fall madly in love with and who loves you back with an equal passion. X

By drinking too much and then sleeping with him, you implied you weren't into anything serious or that you're desperate- the desperation was probably hammered home by the message you sent. In the future allow at least 3-4 dates before sleeping with someone, don't get drunk, and make a real effort to have a proper conversation and be interested in your date.

I'm like MrsTerryPratchett. I had sex first week. I ended up getting engaged the next week and that was over 15 years ago. Real men dont play this 'chase' malarkey. If he wants to be with you, he will. Wait out for someone better.

I think the stuff about putting men off if you put out to early is old fashioned, sexist, guff.

I shagged all my boyfriends on day 1, including current partner. If it works between you then it works, game playing and withholding sex til day 7 or whatever won’t make it right if it isn’t. It’s slut shaming to suggest women who want and have sex early on won’t get partners if that’s what they want.

I also agree with wisedad. Wheres the magic and mystery gone between men and women!!!

I firmly believe that a lot of men categorize women into placeholder & real deal relationships (for want of a better word)
I don't think if you sleep with them on day 1 or day 366 it actually has any bearing on it. A lot of men make snap decisions on women & nothing will derail that process. Men will tolerate average until something better comes along.

God there's a lot of rubbish being spouted, esp the 'evolutionary biology' bullshit.

Look, there are three options.

Option one, as suggested above, he somehow did judge you for sleeping with him at a point where he was willing to sleep with you. Frankly, I have never heard of an example of this where the man in question didn't have other misogynistic qualities that became apparent. Some people like to wait, and that's fine, but people who only want you to wait, and expect you to police male sexuality, are pretty much unequivocally twats to be avoided.

Option two, he was only interested in a casual sexual relationship, and you would have ended up exactly where you are now regardless of how long you dated because that's how he approaches OLD.

Option three, he liked you, but didn't feel you gelled enough. Again, I do think OLD can make people feel there's a world of other options out there if this one isn't quite perfect.

I completely agree that if you're not happy with the decision not to sleep with someone or likely to feel unhappy afterwards then maybe drinking less and waiting longer next time might protect you more. But it 100% isn't your fault, and men who want you to 'wait' to pass some abstract morality test they don't apply to themselves are universally twats.

Men are not complicated in general. The love women and are driven by competition. The more elusive the goal the harder they compete. That allows the obsessive part of male character to take over and build into love. If you go to bed with someone early then the competition has been won from their viewpoint. If you then chase for details you push the average man away as it is the exact opposite of competition.

Sorry, WiseDad, but as a fellow man, I disagree totally with this part. Clearly, I am not an average man but an above average man

Wise dad I get some of your points. Yes I agree men like the chase and the competition. So do women. This is why I'm slightly annoyed at myself for having sex on the second date - as I stated up until this point he seemed much more interested before this. However there are also men out there that are only interested in casual relationships, and from experience they will wait as long as it takes to get you into bed yet still have no intention of building a relationship.

Although you mention I should take your advice over all other women who have posted, you are still only one man - and your views seem a little self righteous and pompous - not to mention outdated.
For example your rant seem about being attractive. I don't fully understand the relevance here but this does lead me to believe you might be a bit of an arse. Guess what - I'm very attractive and so is the guy in question. No worries there.

I also don't agree with the further point made my Yorkshire Mummy that men are simple creatures - they can be as simple or complicated as women - I think women who believe men just want food, sex and to be loved are doing men a disservice.

In a very early conversation with each other we did talk about relationships and love and both admitted that we find love very hard to find - for both of us it's been a few years between each long relationship - because we don't want to compromise. So I suspect that although he liked me it wasn't enough to turn into anything more. I'm a bit down on myself lately which is why I stupidly asked him what I had done wrong. I don't think there is anything really salvaging this now.

Just sayin... take the advice of lots of women who have got unknown success in their relationships with men or men?

Lots of women who have experience of sexual relationships with men, or one man who has had none? AppalachianWalzing is bang on.

wisedad is spouting is the rules + a bit of evolutionary psychobollocks + a bit of 50s sexism.

Men are not simple, they are complex, multi-facected beings who cannot be reduced to a simple formula. Trying to do so is insulting.

A man who can only be won by playing hard to get and pretending you're not interested is not worth having. He's either a) only interested in the chase and however long it takes to get you into bed he will dump you afterwards or b) is with you for the challenge rather than for you. A man who judges you for having sex 'too early' has a dodgy attitude to women.

Equally, playing games in relationships is extremely immature and highly likely to fuck up. It's very obvious when you're playing a game and anyone worth their salt will think less of you for it. I certainly wouldn't waste time dating someone playing silly buggers.

'Be independent but not too independent' is straight out of the submissive wife handbook, and what it amounts to is be someone you're not. Creating an artificial facade of something one not particularly bright man on a net forum thinks other men want to see is not going to get you the right bf, because once you start to be yourself the whole thing will fall apart.

When British men start to dress 'smartly and attractively' do let me know. I see an awful lot of them in tshirts, jeans and trainers. 65% are overweight or obese. I'm quite sure the OP always dresses well anyway.

My advice: be yourself, never put on an act, don't play games, wait for a bit before sex to give yourself time to suss the guy out - his personality, motiviations, how much he likes you. But if, after sex, he never calls you again, you can be sure that no matter how many games you played, hoops you jumped through, rules you followed, he was either only in it for the sex, or he just wasn't that into you.

Lo! Another man here to mansplain the whole thing and expect copious notes to be taken.....not really.

Agree though with a lot of what dad and scooby says. Getting a bit pissed and being open for booty calls is not the way to attract a long term relationship, usually...but asking what you've done wrong does indeed compromise you a lot.

Take your time and ensure whosoever comes a long is worthy of you, your time and your emotions.

Consider it a lucky escape. Who would want something serious with a sexist arsehole who judges women for shagging on the second date when it was a mutual activity?
Can you imagine what his attitude to his fair share of the housework would be?

I'm surprised anyone is taking wisedad's 'advice' seriously.

Waiting to figure someone out before you have sex with them is a no brainer - it doesn't need a pile of claptrap to justify it.

However, you cannot put off a man who genuinely likes you by having sex at the 'wrong' time.

My sister met her DH on a ons. 17 years later and they're still going strong.

HotNatured au contraire. I have a really lovely DH and don't think so poorly of men that I would urge other women to tolerate someone less than lovely.

WiseDad's post was unnecessarily long-winded waffle.

My 20+ year relationship started out with shagging on the first date WiseDad. I think that's what hooked him tbh.** Oxytocin etc

Mainly I feel humiliated that he thinks I'm crazy for asking what I did wrong.
Asking what you did wrong might make you look a bit insecure but is not a completely bonkers thing to say. He's overreacting - or perhaps his strong reaction just meant "don't be ridiculous, of course I don't think women are 'easy' and not worth respect if they sleep with me on a second date, I am nicer than that"?

Even if you said something a bit stupid, that doesn't mean you are stupid - we all come out with silly things on occasion. He doesn't know you well so can't judge what you are like anyway, so don't base your own self-esteem on his limited view.

"Men are not complicated in general. The love women and are driven by competition. The more elusive the goal the harder they compete. That allows the obsessive part of male character to take over and build into love. If you go to bed with someone early then the competition has been won from their viewpoint. If you then chase for details you push the average man away as it is the exact opposite of competition."

What a load of bullshit, I hope no one takes that shite on board! When posters say "the average man" on this site they generally mean "me" and it's a way of justifying their poor attitudes - like "don't sleep with someone on the first date."

Men who think that way are usually jealous and insecure types. The type that thing oooh if she does that to me she might do it with others.

Avoid men like that as they will be crap in bed

I'm feeling a bit down on myself
Well that's hardly surprising.
He is using you and you are letting him.
Time to dump and run in the other direction.
It can take a while to get it right.
But letting this guy have his cake and eat it, is not the way forward.
I don't believe sex on a 2nd date is wrong.
If you click then you click, better to find out sooner rather than later.
Get back out there.
Kiss a few more frogs.
You will eventually find your prince.
And if not, then what's the problem?
Find some hobbies and keep yourself busy.

Even if you said something a bit stupid, that doesn't mean you are stupid - we all come out with silly things on occasion Ain't that the truth

Thing is, do you really want an 'uncomplicated' arsehole who despises you for sex?

Shag early and shag often to weed out the non-contenders, dammit. Win-win.