Differences in attitude to money- is it enough to leave over?

[Russiantoffee]

Changed name and will try to keep it short. Married 20 years 2 DC, DS away at uni, DD about to enter the last 2 years of school. DD is ASD and has had a lifetime of anxiety and mental health stuff. She is in quite a good place at the moment but becomes incredibly anxious if there is any marital conflict.
DH and I have lots in common- read the same books, enjoy each other's company, laugh at the same things, similar education and interests, close to each other's families and good sex life.
However we have completely different views on money and this has simmered away throughout our marriage. DH is very 'live for today', borrow for stuff we need, everything will be OK. He does not want to get old before he spends money on himself, as he saw his parents (now deceased) do. He says he is responsible because he has always worked full time and put all his earnings into our joint account. He inherited a good sum of money from his parents and has refused to invest it. It is currently sitting against our mortgage, not quite enough to pay it off.. We have had a wonderful family holiday with it and he has bought a few treats for himself (an elderly sports car).

I have a much more conservative view towards money, don't mind going without if it is for a bigger financial goal, and want more than anything to establish financial security for our dc. However we consistently outspend our income and I can see the inheritance dwindling down.

To avoid a dripfeed, I came into the marriage with more assets, but have not worked full-time since DC were born. I have carved out a good professional career but do not earn as much as DH and have always worked either 3 or 4 days. Now the DC are getting older I am getting caught up in care for my elderly mother who lives in another city.
DH is completely generous towards me - if I said 'I never want to work again, or I want a diamond ring, or to study in New York' he would immediately say 'go for it'. However we can't actually afford to live like this.
So at the moment I go about my daily life trying to save and cut costs and he goes about running them up.
A recent example. He needed a new phone. Went to a phone shop and came out having been upsold a new plan for our home internet, cable tv, incredibly expensive new tablet etc. Our monthly bill is now massively more. None of this was discussed with me.This keeps on giving because each month when the phone bill arrives I feel the same wave of fury.

I see him as flakey and wild with money and he sees me as a killjoy. I feel so tired of this and am beginning to consider how it would work if we separated. Then I think of the anguish this would cause the DC and my elderly mother etc. Running 2 households would leave us both worse off and I would probably have to work full-time. So do I suck it up and stay because it is mostly OK, leave and cause a lot of family pain, or continue to stay and feel infuriated?

How about you get written agreement that any purchase worth over £250 I must be discussed with the partner, and if that's breached then he has to pay you the equal amount of what was spent so you can put it into savings to pay off the mortgage or something?

Either that or actually pay the inheritance into a savings account of yours and have the mortgage come out of that, so he only had his own wage to spend from. That will make his overspending more obvious to him, especially if he is running low at the end of the month.

Yeah, it would be worth separating your finances and putting a certain amount each into the savings account for bills/kids/etc.

His way isn't necessarily the wrong way. I see people saving for the future and they save too much! They never spend it and yes ok the kids do well but for me your responsibility to your children is to bring them up as well as possible, support them when they need help such as University etc but then it's up to them.

I'm not sure where this must look after kids financially has come from.

It sounds like your marriage is pretty good bar this one thing. If he'd previously agreed to consult with you for spending over 250 (even though he denies it now) then sit him down and tell him that this is now getting so serious that it's affecting your happiness as you feel irrelevant, disrespected and unheard. He'll probably be shocked as he'll have no concept at all that money can cause such angst. At this point put it in writing there and then and email it to him and get him to agree by return of email. Maybe increase the amount to 500 as a compromise or something (but only after starting the conversation at 250 so he can see you considering him). In your shoes this would really eat away at me too. Make the conversation about the fact that you're not being listened to or taken seriously on this point rather than the specific amount. Don't rehash the old agreement either. Mention it initially then focus on how his dismissal of your point of view makes you feel. Maybe write down how it makes you feel first so that you can articulate this clearly when emotions are churning. Do make sure the amount is reasonable though. You don't want him checking with you every five minutes or feeling too controlled.

You have many things in your marriage to be proud of.

Money is always a stress for some people as it goes deep to basic fears..maslow hierarchy of needs.

I think you need to be balanced and assess if you are over cautious.Is £1000 relative to savings of 100k or 10k? Does your dh have credit card debt or regularly overdrawn?

Why not get an independant health check so you know retirement is looked after and the children. After that what's left is spending.
Perhaps you could indulge yourself, it might make your partner feel balanced.

I suspect your husbands views are deeply entrenched, like yours, so I don't think they will change.If there isn't debt, the pensions are looked after then you might have to shrug off spending.The worst thing you can do is get resentful.

I think both of you need to meet in the middle rather than him changing his ways. He is, after all, spending his own inheritance on nice things and he's not being selfish with it by the sounds of it. If he was doing it at the expense of bills being paid, or racking up debt to buy frivolous things then I would understand your frustration. Having a large sum of money sitting there accessible is dangerous so as a couple you need a review of your finances and then what you each spend your surplus money on is up to you. Certainly not a reason to end what sounds like a really great marriage, are you sure there aren't other frustrations underneath but your using this as a concrete reason to pin your desire to end things on?

It's not so much the different attitude to spending that would bother me but the lack of discussion

Omg I'd absolute loathe and resent having to discuss whether I could spend money, despite me generally being the one who likes to save.

That's why we do as I said in my first post. Our money is our money and separate to the other's so there's no need to discuss anything as both of us are financially autonomous.

Demanding that a partner discuss their financial purchases with you is really quite controlling behaviour. Presumably you have the same financial freedom as he does? And assuming that you're not going into debt for these purchases it's just a case of thinking about these things differently.

He's right though, life is too short and you could both be dead tomorrow. All that money isn't going to be worth anything if there's no-one to spend it.. And while me and my DP have a similar attitude in that he is far too impetuous when it comes to spending money and I have never been into my overdraft ever, I do think that we spend far too much time thinking about a future which may never even materialise. All that money would be taken for your care costs if you don't spend it anyway.

And I agree, there's far too much emphasis on having to save to help out the children. No. The children are adults and as such need to take responsibility for their own lives. Far too much expectation from adult children that their parents will prop them up financially for ever more IMO.

But do you really think that it's worth disrupting all your lives, going through the expense of divorce, heading back on to the dating scene and having to turn away a serious of one shag wonders before you potentially meet someone else, him meeting and possibly having more children with someone else and disrupting your own children's lives just because he likes to spend and you don't? Really?

I wouldn't leave over this but would impress upon him it's last chance saloon time.

So he has to do what the OP wants then? Why us her way 'right' and his 'wrong'.

You also need to do something with the inheritance - it's doing nobody any good sitting in a savings account (with probably little interest) being gradually chipped away at. Pay off your mortgage to reduce outgoings and avoid overspending? Invest in another property? Something anyway. Put it out of temptation.

It's not the Ops inheritance.

I am in no way a spender, but I couldn't live in the way OP does. To me it doesn't sound much fun.

That's why we do as I said in my first post. Our money is our money and separate to the other's so there's no need to discuss anything as both of us are financially autonomous.

Just curious about this. Do you mean you are autonomous after you each pay your half of bills/pension/savings or completely autonomous while paying your own way. I suppose I mean, do you spend your money exactly as you wish - savings/no savings included or does this just mean you do whatever you want with your leftover money.

I can understand if it is the leftover money but curious if it is all money. Do you not discuss and plan for the future/retirement together? If you are each separate financial entities, isn't it possible that when the roof collapses suddenly, only one of you will have no savings and the other will be a bit miffed at having to pay for the whole thing? or you will turn to each other at age 64 and one will say "well I think I need to sell the house, downsize to something much cheaper, and I'll need to continue working part time" and the other will say "actually I'm ready to retire and was going to suggest we live 3 months of the year in Spain"

£1000 for two PMc tickets,,just like that ? wow,, now i am beginning to side with the OP !

I think £1000 for two tickets is a ridiculous amount of money (£1000 to see PM?! ) but I guess it depends on the ops income. I have a friend who thinks absolutely nothing of spending £2000 in one shopping trip, and she does it regularly. Whereas to us I notice £10 on lunch if dh treats himself (which isn't an issue, I'm just making a point).

My dh was brought up in a home with a very casual attitude towards money. They didnt have much but borrowed and generally were quite relaxed. I come from a home of savers. It has caused trouble. My dh got an inheritance and blew a fair bit before l reined him in and he agreed to put rest in an account in my name. Funny enough we have continued as normal since and never touched a penny of that. I think money burns a hole in ones pocket but if its out of sight you survive. I would fight hard to put that money away. If your ds has asd ye need to plan his financial security. I would take equal money and save a nest egg either for self or later for dc. I wouldnt fall out over it but establish a strategy for your goals to be achieved. The more control you feel you have in financial matters the less resentment you willl feel.
So take more power into your own hands in a quiet way. I appreciated all the monney my dh earned and inherited but feel far happier since l took more control. He is still happy and is not left short.

I agree no marriage is perfect. It doesn't sound as if he's completely irresponsible with money either. Unless he has big credit card debt. I don't think he needs to tell you he's bought a tablet if he can afford one. People do need to treat themselves from time to time. But if you're genuinely worried about money and running up debts then you need a budget. With so much transferred into an account for spending each month.

I'm surprised some pp's have been so blasé about $1000 concert tickets. Nice to have that much money to piss away like it's nothing.

I don't know how many times you can have the same conversation and never get anywhere before you crack. I'd be inclined to make some sort of written agreement about big purchases again, and when he (almost inevitably) goes back on it, see if that's it for you.

I didn't see the post about the tickets. And agree that is completely and utterly unacceptable. What a waste. He can't even get rid of one of the tickets.

I agree the amount on the tickets and the fact that he isn't sure if they are legit is a problem. However, OP seemed to have a resistance to buying the tickets at all, before mentioning the other factors. That was when i mentioned it being a bit joyless. It can be easy to try and completely temper someone's undesirable traits by being the polar opposite: here we have a profligate spender ("I'll spend £1000 on tickets!") with a restrictive attitude of "you've seen this singer once, no need to go agan!"

It is easy for that to happen but what is needed here is a middle ground and compromise for both parties. To give another example, when one parent is very strict the other parent often becomes very lenient to tey to counteract the strictness. Ultimately, it doesn't work because it isn't a yin and yang formula.

Discussion, amd a willigness to unclench yourself :) is what is needed here, and I wish OP well.

We're sort of similar in attitudes to money. DH is more of a spender and I'm more of a saver - although he'd never just go and spend £1000 on concert tickets - that's bonkers money.

I mostly get round it by us pooling our money in a joint account and then we each get spends to fritter as we see fit, but somehow purchases like expensive tents and ipads are difficult as sort of joint. Now that DS is a bit older I've upped my hours at work and put a reasonable amount into AVCs and a company share save.

But you know sometimes cautious doesn't work out either. I always took my bonus as shares rather than doing as others did and using it for holidays and home decorating. Then the bank crash happen and my 10 years of bonuses effectively became worthless and now are worth about 20% of what went in to them.

Or my parents who both have great pensions and savings but aren't really up to spending it any more and won't because they think things should cost what they did 30 years ago.

So there is a case for living a bit whilst you can. I try to not get annoyed about the little stuff - I like skiing so try to squeeze in a ladies holiday a year as my thing - as long as we're both healthy and working then we can afford to indulge a bit.

I think your marriage sounds very happy overall and it would be a pity to let this fester. Whether this is a problem depends on your income. If you divorce, you may control your own money, but there is likely to be a lot less money. Two things I regret not buying, were tickets to see Kate Bush in her most recent concerts and Annie Lennox at the Greenwich Millenium Party. The only tickets I could get were very expensive, although not 1k, but I should have just gone for it.

Re the tickets, I would have liked him to ring me and we have a conversation about it before he bought them. I don't think that is controlling, I think it is respectful. It is a lot of money in my eyes. The tablet was absolutely top of the range with an extra data package that he admits he did not need and is now appearing as an extra $100 on our phone bill each month. This is what I mean by living beyond our means without any discussion. He is easily flattered by salespeople that he must have the best of everything.
I do know how to spend money to have fun. We are going away for a few days to celebrate our 20th anniversary. It has been fun planning and booking it together.
My late FiL received an inheritance in his 70s and spent it in 2 years pursuing a lifetime dream - Tiger Moth flying lessons. On one hand I was so happy for him that he did something he had always wanted to do. On the other my parents in law ended up with some financial problems that could have been averted if he had not spent all that money.
It is interesting the question about how much to help DC. My parents have been very generous at times through my adult life when I really needed it and I would like to have the capacity to be the same towards my DC in their adult lives. As the younger is only 15 we have a long way to go.
Different time zone, just dashing off to work now.

I think you could do with a sort of financial life coaching (if such a thing is available, perhaps a financial advisor might do it) - so you're not going to a counselling scenario where implicit 'problem' scenarios and apportionings of blame may be hovering, you sit down with a neutral third person and discuss your finances and feelings about money, each establish a level of security you would like to have (incl any extra you think your dd might need ,long-term) and mutually agree on a level in the middle, and then budget to satisfy that and whatever money is left over is divided equally for each of you to spend as you choose. Perhaps also agree that you will always take a cooling-off period after being subjected to sales pitches before you agree to anything.

I also think it would be fair enough to agree to a set of questions you each have to ask (yourselves, perhaps each other) before any major purchase: perhaps something like 'who does this benefit? What will we get out of it, both in the short and the long term? How will we feel in a year when we look back at spending this amount?' This process will lay bare each of your attitudes and it certainly shouldn't mean that the more cautious person (you) has to 'win', but it might help him become more aware of the long-term impact of spending and you of the intangible benefits and pleasures that some well-chosen outlays can bring.

I'm naturally more on your side, OP, but likewise more conscious than I would like to be that life is short. I do think (and I don't mean to lecture) you should be aware of how fortunate you are to have inheritances etc at all, and there is something a tiny bit diamond-shoes about complaining it hasn't been invested or paid off your mortgage. Providing for the dc is all very well, and we are saving for ours, but (due to our limited means) we are realistic that what we provide for them will only ever be a boost and also aware that it will be good for them to have to develop their skills, work ethic etc by having to supplement that reasonably early on.

Spender here!

The thing about your, on the face of it, very reasonable request that you just want DH to discuss with you before he spends, is that if he does this, you will always get your way.

If he had rung you and said "I want to spend a grand on PM tickets", what would you have said? Honestly? Probably something along the lines of what you e said here about it being a ridiculous waste of money and he's already seen them once and that's quite enough for one lifetime.

Why would he agree to system that essentially involves him wanting to buy something, running it by you and you then denying permission? I wouldn't want to discuss spending with someone who always said no to me either.

As I say, on the face of it it seems as though you're the one with logic and right on your side (how can he argue that it's not sensible to save money/invest in the future etc?) but unless he's actually plunging you into penury then spending on things that make him happy isn't actually less valid than your approach.

The other reason why the 'running purchases over a certain amount past your partner' rule is unfair is that when the Saver wants something (admittedly far less frequently than the Spender) they are generally granted enthusiastic permission instantly - the Spender's approach to money means that they are very encouraging of their partner having something they desire.

On the other hand, when the Spender wants something, the Saver will suck their teeth, want all kinds of justifications and risk assessments etc on the purchase, generally being quite negative about the entire thing from the outset.

So the Saver receives 'treats' whenever they want them (again, this is ususlly infrequent) with no pressure put upon them to justify it, but the Spender is either refused their 'treat' or is grudgingly permitted it, having first gone through a grilling as to why it is justified.

It's actually a very unsatisfactory arrangement for the Spender, because if the agreement is stuck to (and I appreciate that Spenders can be bad at sticking to the agreement, which must be utterly maddening), then the Saver is actually way more likely to get what they want: both the financial conservativism that makes them happy, and whatever 'treats' they ask for, plus they get to hold the moral high ground. The Spender has to curb their natural financial impulsiveness, is constantly denied treats (or at the very least have the joy sucked out of them before they're allowed them), and is required to accept the title of feckless, irresponsible fool.

In my marriage, I'm the saver and DH is the spender and it's a similar dynamic to yourselves.

We have occasional clashes wrt to expenditure because I consider some of his purchases to be completely wasteful (that's because I don't value his gadgets - which I recognise is my bias!) and he thinks that I am a bit of a tightwad (which I probably am). We have the money though so we can afford it but like yourself, I like to have the emotional security of a larger financial safety net and I find some stuff quite wasteful (e.g massive engine luxury car on the drive which has just costed us an unexpected £1600 for service/maintenance issues). I'm happy to drive a Focus. I also recognise the fact that I like to be in control of our finances (which I manage 80% of anyway) and a consequence of that is that I like to save money and there are areas where clearly, I have gritted my teeth and grumbled (Spotify subscription, maintaining an expensive motor and having a £££ hobby).

Seriously, you need to unclench (as I have done). You need to discuss what he would like to do with HIS inheritance and whether he sees it to be used for the family's benefit. Are you mad because he has spent most of the money on his wants without consideration of your feelings about it?

You can't plan what to do with essentially someone else's money - if that is how he views it. Depending on the amount involved, is he not amenable to even use say 25 - 30% of it to pay down the mortgage capital sum?

The important thing to note is that - he is not reckless. He's happy to spend it on family holidays and on yourself.You're not in debt outside of your mortgage. You don't say that you are struggling financially so I'm assuming that you're not. You just have a problem with him spending his inheritance instead of saving it/investing it all which is slightly controlling.

How hard is it for you to get him to understand how his spending (extravagant in your eyes) makes you feel insecure (even if it isn't entirely logical? There obviously is a midpoint to be reached here without huge conflict.

You just have a problem with him spending his inheritance instead of saving it/investing it all which is slightly controlling

Is it controlling or is it just that if the OP were better off she'd see it a family money too and just realised that he doesn't value her as she does him.

The important thing to note is that - he is not reckless. He's happy to spend it on family holidays and on yourself.You're not in debt outside of your mortgage. You don't say that you are struggling financially so I'm assuming that you're not. You just have a problem with him spending his inheritance instead of saving it/investing it all which is slightly controlling.

Do people not worry about the future at all or retirement? I would have to have a fair amount of savings before I could see an inheritance as money to be blown rather than money to secure my future. If he doesn't have significant savings and/or a pension then tbh I do think he is reckless to spend all of an inheritance on things like concert tickets. And I would feel pretty much like I was on my own in any kind of financial planning if DH did that.