I feel sick (dd related) **Trigger Warning: Abuse** [Edited by MNHQ]

[duckwalk]

I'm not sure if anyone will remember me but I have posted in chat a few times about my dd (now 13) and her abusive dad. Threads have now disappeared.

Back story;
Separated from my ex when dd was 5yo. He was very abusive to me in all ways...physically, emotionally, financially and sexually. He was part of a controlling family with a cycle of abuse back through the generations.

I stupidly put faith in him that he would not harm our dd and I continued to allow a relationship between them. Last summer he hit her across the face while he was driving. Police arrested him, sw were involved and I got a lawyer involved as her dgp's facilitated a meeting between dd and her dad in secret. (Grandad is a retired cop and gran is a senior nurse.....they're intelligent people who should know how to act responsibly). Dd was at their home a few months after the incident and her dad appeared....she locked herself in the bathroom in fear then called me to collect her. I cut contact with dgps after that. Changed dd's mobile number and blocked their numbers on her phone. She still had contact with her uncle as he had never risked her safety, as far as I am aware. He would take her out for dinner once every 2-3 months.

I have been paying privately for a year for counselling for my dd as she has made it clear she misses her family. She has chosen the frequency of the sessions and has been going once weekly for many months. Counsellor, police, sw, school and lawyer have all agreed that I've been doing the right thing by stopping contact between dd and her family on ex's side.

Last night I was checking dd's phone (I randomly spot check as she has had some issues in the past with friends etc). I saw a photo taken by her of a front room, with her converse trainers in the bottom of the photo. Recognised the room as being her dad's and saw photos of my dd and her younger half sibling on the wall. Definitely her Dad's house, photo dated as last weekend.

Last weekend I was out for lunch with a friend and my dh was at college (even though it was the weekend, he's in a trade). She would have been at home alone for 3-3.5 hours and I tried to arrange for her to go to my sisters but she assured me she was going to a friend's. I had text her several times to ask if she was ok, if she had eaten etc. She said all was well.

I literally did not sleep last night with worry. I've tried my absolute best to keep her safe. It's broken my heart to see her so upset over the last year about not being able to see her family, but unfortunately I cannot trust any of them at all. She has asked me many times why she cannot see them and I have explained as best as I could that the family failed to keep her safe, but also me when I was in that situation. Dd remembers times when I was with her dad and the hitting and shouting that went on. Since this happened to her last year I have explained some more about what happened to me but not everything.... I done this to try get through to her why I could not allow her to see him, as he just cannot control himself.

I told my dh when we woke up this morning as I was pale and shaking. I would have preferred to have waited until after school to speak to her but my dh was furious. He has taken the brunt of my dd's anger over the last year as it was he who contacted the police initially. He has put up with a lot from her but also from my ex prior to this incident, being threatened with violence etc.

Dd admitted it immediately when asked. She also admitted it was not the first time she had visited her dad, she also went a few months ago. She told us that it was her gran who picked her up then brought her home again each time. She cannot recall the exact date of the first time she went.

I'm so sorry for the really long post, and for the fact it is a garbled mess....I'm literally in shock. I feel humiliated that the entire family have went behind my back and once again have undermined me as her mother. I'm so upset and disappointed with my dd, I feel as though our relationship will never quite be the same again as she has massively abused my trust in her.

I literally don't know what to do. She cried this morning before school as she misses her family. I feel for her but I have to keep her safe.

Oh I'm so sorry for the length of this post, I hadn't meant for it to be quite so long. I just wish my first thread had not disappeared

So how old is your dd now?

I think I would call the SW and ask for advice? As it has been advised that she does not have contact with her dad or that side of the family you need to tell sw to show your concern and that you want to protect her. It's going to be hard to stop her having some sort of contact what with her having a phone and access to the internet. She's not old enough to make safe choices for herself but she probably feels she is. If you are concerned for her safety then maybe she can see her dad in a contact centre?

I too think a contact centre would be a goid compromise. The problem for you is that your dd is 13 and (of course she doesn't understand) wants to have contact with her father and family. Whilst your motivations are in her best interests, she will likely continue to resent you trying to separate them. She is of an age where she believes she knows what she wants. It is worse that she is doing this behind your back as this places her in greater danger potentially. Sorry but I think a compromise will have to be reached, hopefully with sw intervention.

It's a bit of a tangle isn't it?

First of all, try to make sure your dd does not become the target of misplaced anger that should really be aimed at your ex and her GPs.

She is 13, she has lost out on what would have been her right under any normal circumstances, and she has been led astray by the adults around her. It's not her you should be angry with, at least not very angry.

Secondly (and perhaps most importantly), never let her feel that this has irrevocably damaged your relationship, that you will never trust her again. That is the most foolproof way of ensuring that she continues to go behind her back, because if you think of your relationship as broken then she will too.

Also, you don't want to damage her self esteem too badly at this point: it is children with poor self esteem who are most at risk around abusive adults. Let her feel that yes, this was a mistake and she shouldn't have done it but that to some extent you can understand how she feels, you just want things to be arranged in a safer way.

I would go down the SW and contact centre route, at the same time as being perfectly honest with your dd about why you are forced to go down this route.

I have called sw dept this morning and waiting for a call back. Dd was discharged from them following one visit to our home, when we assumed them we would do everything to keep her safe.

I'm sorry I don't mean to drip feed, forgotten to say that as far as I am aware a decision has not yet made made about whether my ex is to go to court over what happened. I know it has been over a year but when I have called Procurator Fiscal they keep telling me the case is on hold. I haven't called for a few months as my own health has been poor (stress related seizures)l almost daily). One of the biggest issues for us regarding contact with her dgps was their manipulation of her....they would guilt her by telling her that "if dad goes to jail then he'll lose his job then his home. Where will your step mum and half sibling live?" Lawyer saw this as manipulation especially when the actual case wasn't closed.

I had so hoped I could keep her away from them for longer. She's at such a crucial stage in her life and one of my biggest fears is her turning out like these people. I am certainly not perfect but these people are toxic. I could literally write a book on the abuse within the family, and manipulation. Her step mum is a primary teacher and knew about previous times when ex had struck my dd, but kept it from me.

Hopefully the sw will call back soon, and if it is to be a contact centre then so be it. I'm not happy even with this though. Will their conversations be monitored?

My dd will be 14 in a few months.

It sounds a hideous situation, OP, but your only hope is not to alienate your dd. Stay firm on the bits that really matter, but don't make her feel her stupid decision has caused some kind of rift between you. You represent sanity and a decent way of being, just stick to that idea. Be firm but kind, stay as calm as you can, and that will help you and her.

Thank you for your replies so far.

I am definitely much more upset than I am angry. My dh was angry earlier this morning when he found out.....this is just another incident in a catalogue of lying from dd unfortunately. I'm certain he will have calmed down when he is home from work.

I have always maintained to dd that I can understand she misses her family, and that I wish her dad had never done what he had done. But he did and I have done my best to protect her. I have always emphasised this to her, and explained why she cannot see them. I have told her that when she is 16 she has more of a say but I will not be facilitating a relationship in terms of driving her to his house etc. She knows how I feel and why. I have had a couple of sessions with her in her counselling, and this has been reiterated to her.

My lawyer has sent her step mum a letter as she had turned up outside her school, following her down the street in the car, shouting for her to go over but she didn't. Letter was basically "stay away from dd, her mother has ask d you repeatedly to stay away, do not contact dd in person, by email or phone". Again this was due to manipulation following the incident and after I found out step mum knew about previous incidents (which I did not).

I'm furious at them all, every one of them. After he done this I gave every one of them all of the doubt but they all messed it up. They all had a chance to continue a relationship with her but each of them were feeding her lines such as "your mum is to blame for this, it's her fault for contacting the police ". I don't want my dd growing up to think abuse is normal! They all minimise it and pass the blame.

I literally cannot deal with this. I feel like I can't get these fuckers out of my life, I have known this family for 16 years and they continue to stamp on me.

Cory yes I stayed as calm as possible this morning. My dd however was vile towards me. Blaming me, saying it was my actions which led to this (stopping contact). I told her I loved her before she went to school. My anger is definitely aimed at the ex in laws. This is literally how they treat people.... they stamp over people to get what they want.

Gave them all the benefit of the doubt. (Ex in laws).

Can't even think straight. I too have been having counselling, every 2 weeks. I became v depressed and anxious after incident with dd last year. Counsellor suggested it could be PTSD as I was having dreams about ex and his family, and what happened to me. Everywhere I went I thought I saw them etc. I've worked so hard to get over the feelings of inadequacy they instilled in me over the course of 16 years.

I have had to put counselling on hold as I am currently working with a specialist for Non Epileptic Attack Disorder.

Don't be disappointed with your dd, and your dh has no right to be angry with her. She didn't choose her father, or who her father's family are. You did. I've been in your dd's place, if you couldn't see the 'bad' in him as an unrelated adult (when you met him), how do you expect her to feel as a child? He's her dad and that's not her fault.

I have never told her it is her fault or tried to make her feel as though it is. The same is not true of the other side of her family, as they have made her feel guilty about telling me, then blamed us for contacting the police.

It's an awful situation for everyone involved. I too had difficult parental relationships growing up, but I stick to my guns in keeping her as safe as I can. And I won't feel guilty for trying to protect her. Yes I chose him as a partner years ago, and tried my best to get away for many years, even before dd was born. Sex was rarely consensual- see op...sexual abuse.

"and tried my best to get away for many years,"

Presumably as an adult.

So there's no way ypur poor daughter can stand up to manipulation from her father & GPs.

Sounds as if supervised contact is the only way to go if she still wants to see her dad & Gps.

Did yes as an adult, from 18 upwards. I was completely over powered by them.

The sw has called back and has advised to either facilitate contact on my own or contact a lawyer. When I asked about a contact centre she told me our case doesn't quite meet that criteria and other children who are actually under their care have to take priority.

Thank you to all who replied. I will have to think about this.

Sounds like you are doing all the right things and just need to hang in there: at the moment, while she is ranting and the rest of them are acting totally irresponsibly, you are the voice of sanity. It may take her a while to see this, but eventually she will. Just hang in!

But certainly worth remembering what diddl said: as an adult you were completely overwhelmed and she is 13.

I feel so beaten down.

I know this 'man' and I know his family, I know what they are capable of. I pressed charges against my ex when I was 21 as he assaulted me in a public place, witnessed by a passing police car. I gave a statement then tried to retract it a couple of months later due to pressure from ex's family. I was young and naive and believed their threats, and tbh I was v intimidated by his father who was a police inspector at the time. It still went to court and he was given a suspended sentence...police pursued it as they witnessed what happened.

I spent the next goodness knows how many years hearing about how it was all my fault.

I have contacted the P.Fiscal. The case is still considered 'active'. It has not been closed and there is no court date as yet...I've been told this is quite normal to wait as long as this.

This was my fear. My dd is potentially still a witness and definitely a victim in an active case.

I'm angry for you that social services are not doing more, I can't see how it's in her interests to be in contact with him whilst there's a court case going on. This man has a history of violence yet they feel it's safe for your daughter to have contact?

Surely a contact centre would be the best option as there conversations would be monitored. I don't understand why SS are saying it's not an option, I suspect most of it is down to her age, she's at a age where she gets some say in what happens.

I think you have several options, you let her have contact and you wait for him to mess up which will be hard as you know he will mess up and dd will be at risk. If you stop her from seeing him you risk your relationship with dd. You could get advice from solicitors and try and prove that he's a risk to your Dd but again your dd won't be happy. You compromise and let her have contact as long as you or another family member is present (you mentioned a uncle she still has contact with?).

If she wants to see her Dad and his family it does sound as though supervised access is the way forward. I'm surprised SS haven't suggested this.

What a nightmare. Be kind to yourself and keep communicating with your DD.

Thank you for your reply lovemusic. Unfortunately it appears her uncle (ex's brother) was involved in setting up the first secret meeting. I gave him my trust but that has now been lost. I do not trust these people to tell me if there is a problem. Their priority seems to be encouraging a relationship between them, no matter what. Even though I have stressed my wishes to them all, as her mother.

My solicitor is on annual leave until the beginning of October. She knows the entire story inside out and was amazing throughout. Within just half an hour she had the family down to a T and could practically read my mind. Unfortunately she has dealt with similar and worse many times. Family lawyer with years of experience and also a trained family counsellor. I trust her and need her right now!!

The thought of my naive, impressionable 13 year old being in their company makes me feel sick Like I said I'm not perfect, I have my faults past and present, but I have run myself into the ground with this.

For years I tried to encourage him to see his dd. She would cry to me as a 5/6/7 yo because she felt he didn't love her. I've made endless excuses to her for why he has been late or no showed. She spent one Father's Day with him and the woman he took home the night before (I found out when she returned home). I have picked up the pieces time and again when he has put her down, ridiculed her and when he has bad mouthed me to her. I only ever told her of some of what happened to me after the incident last year. I never bad mouthed him or his family. She would return home to us and speak to us like dirt at times. It was my dh who taught her to swim, ride a bike, made sacrifices for her, took her abroad. We have been the ones who dealt with her self harming in a supportive and loving way....my ex screamed at her, saying he was ashamed to have a daughter in counselling. Our family was almost blown apart by the events last year....we dealt with her tears and grief over being hit by her dad. My dh is also having counselling due to the strain of the last year.

I think we're justified to be upset with the situation. We have worked so hard over the last year and in previous years to support my dd. My mental health has deteriorated to such an extent that I have been having stress related seizures (NEAD), I am not allowed to drive and I have been off work sick since June. I have no other stresses in my life.

Sorry to sound ranty, it is not directed at anyone in particular just in general. Feels good to get it out.

Hold thank you for replying.
Unfortunately I don't have anyone who is willing to supervise. My ex assaulted my aunt and threatened my sister. He also threatened my dh when he reported him to the police last year. The police could not take it further as the only witness was ex's new wife and she denied it.

I am no longer willing to be near him and neither are my family or friends, and I can understand their point of view.

It is strange that sw won't consider a contact centre. We don't seem to be a priority. I'm not sure whether it's because of dd's age or otherwise.

How much does dd know about his past behaviour? Maybe it's time to sit down with her and tell her the truth? I have a 13 year old and I am quite open with her (as much as I can be). There is a risk that she will just accuse you of lying as I'm guessing he has told her a load of lies.

I've been in yr daughters shoes exactly the same....dm went to court to stop me seeing him...the more she tried to stop me ,and tell me what a bad man( her words ) he was the more upset I got..the more my step father got involved the more I hated him..basically they pushed me in to running away to live with him by trying to stop it..she's going to love him weather you like it or not..I needed to see he was a piece of shit for myself.which I did,but it took 20 yrs..sadly now I'm nc with him and very limited contact with her....my advice would be you have to accept he's her dad and she wants to see him...let her find out herself what he's like.organize controlled meetings with a 3 rd party there to keep her safe..it's not her fault he's her father,so don't punish her for it,or you will loose her.

Thank you eezer I will take that on board. I appreciate you sharing your story.

He or you could self refer to a private contact centre. There is a charge for him to pay (my one is £60 an hour ), but they're very good, or at least the one my DD goes to is. My ex was abusive too, and they write me lengthy reports of everything that's said and that happens within the contact time. Not sure if this is something that would be useful.