I feel sick (dd related) **Trigger Warning: Abuse** [Edited by MNHQ]

[duckwalk]

I'm not sure if anyone will remember me but I have posted in chat a few times about my dd (now 13) and her abusive dad. Threads have now disappeared.

Back story;
Separated from my ex when dd was 5yo. He was very abusive to me in all ways...physically, emotionally, financially and sexually. He was part of a controlling family with a cycle of abuse back through the generations.

I stupidly put faith in him that he would not harm our dd and I continued to allow a relationship between them. Last summer he hit her across the face while he was driving. Police arrested him, sw were involved and I got a lawyer involved as her dgp's facilitated a meeting between dd and her dad in secret. (Grandad is a retired cop and gran is a senior nurse.....they're intelligent people who should know how to act responsibly). Dd was at their home a few months after the incident and her dad appeared....she locked herself in the bathroom in fear then called me to collect her. I cut contact with dgps after that. Changed dd's mobile number and blocked their numbers on her phone. She still had contact with her uncle as he had never risked her safety, as far as I am aware. He would take her out for dinner once every 2-3 months.

I have been paying privately for a year for counselling for my dd as she has made it clear she misses her family. She has chosen the frequency of the sessions and has been going once weekly for many months. Counsellor, police, sw, school and lawyer have all agreed that I've been doing the right thing by stopping contact between dd and her family on ex's side.

Last night I was checking dd's phone (I randomly spot check as she has had some issues in the past with friends etc). I saw a photo taken by her of a front room, with her converse trainers in the bottom of the photo. Recognised the room as being her dad's and saw photos of my dd and her younger half sibling on the wall. Definitely her Dad's house, photo dated as last weekend.

Last weekend I was out for lunch with a friend and my dh was at college (even though it was the weekend, he's in a trade). She would have been at home alone for 3-3.5 hours and I tried to arrange for her to go to my sisters but she assured me she was going to a friend's. I had text her several times to ask if she was ok, if she had eaten etc. She said all was well.

I literally did not sleep last night with worry. I've tried my absolute best to keep her safe. It's broken my heart to see her so upset over the last year about not being able to see her family, but unfortunately I cannot trust any of them at all. She has asked me many times why she cannot see them and I have explained as best as I could that the family failed to keep her safe, but also me when I was in that situation. Dd remembers times when I was with her dad and the hitting and shouting that went on. Since this happened to her last year I have explained some more about what happened to me but not everything.... I done this to try get through to her why I could not allow her to see him, as he just cannot control himself.

I told my dh when we woke up this morning as I was pale and shaking. I would have preferred to have waited until after school to speak to her but my dh was furious. He has taken the brunt of my dd's anger over the last year as it was he who contacted the police initially. He has put up with a lot from her but also from my ex prior to this incident, being threatened with violence etc.

Dd admitted it immediately when asked. She also admitted it was not the first time she had visited her dad, she also went a few months ago. She told us that it was her gran who picked her up then brought her home again each time. She cannot recall the exact date of the first time she went.

I'm so sorry for the really long post, and for the fact it is a garbled mess....I'm literally in shock. I feel humiliated that the entire family have went behind my back and once again have undermined me as her mother. I'm so upset and disappointed with my dd, I feel as though our relationship will never quite be the same again as she has massively abused my trust in her.

I literally don't know what to do. She cried this morning before school as she misses her family. I feel for her but I have to keep her safe.

Cotton thank you, I will look in to that. I didn't even know this was a 'thing'. Much appreciated.

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh...I think I did...I ended up hating her more than him..even though I'd seen him hit her when I was a child..so reading yr story brought it all back to me...my social worker was utter shit..she never ever saw me on my own so I could say what I wanted.one of my parents was always there speaking for me..

Lovemusic
Unfortunately my dd has witnessed violence over the years. She can remember fragments of incidents from before we left when she was 5yo.

She told me of an incident when her dad pushed his wife into a lying down position on the hall stairs, screaming over her in her face.

She has witnessed her dad push her gran onto a sofa while in a rage. Apparently there was a huge argument over dinner when she was 10yo which only ended when dd put a (thankful blunt) dinner knife to her wrist, threatening to cut herself if they didn't stop. After she told me of this I put them all under strict instructions.... they could see dd but only separately. Ex and his wife are constantly arguing with his parents so I said they were no longer allowed to see her as a combined family if they could not control themselves. That lasted all of about 3 weeks until they met up as a family in secret.

Prior to this they all went abroad as a family but spent the 2 weeks arguing amongst themselves and I got tearful calls from dd. Apparently ex had a fist fight with his dad while on this holiday.

They do not listen to anyone at all. This is normal behaviour to them. I want to teach her that this is not.

My fear is that she will either witness more abuse / fights or be the victim herself but keep it all secret again. I can't bear the thought of her being involved in this cycle of abuse.

I didn't have to tell her too much tbh. I haven't told her of the financial or sexual abuse. I don't think she would properly grasp the concept of emotional abuse but she does agree that things he said to her was absolutely not right. I have explained more to her about some of the physical abuse but certainly not all. I don't think there's any chance she'll not believe me as she has seen too much already. I told her more as she was adamant he would not harm her again.... I had to tell her I knew there was a very real risk he would.

Again thank you for all replies.

Eezer you didn't sound harsh at all, it's good for me to hear all aspects and points of view. I'm sorry this has brought it all back to you.

I'll try to put a trigger warning on the thread title although don't know how to do it!

I really do appreciate your point of view and welcome any other advice

Duck do you have family near by for support? How close by does her dad live?

I know if I was in your shoes I would be really worried, would moving be an option or would that just cause more upset to your dd?

It's such a hard situation and I really feel for you.

It sounds to me that regardless of what you say/ think / feel ,she is going to see him anyway..that's the thing with teens,they are law un to themselves..it sounds like there is a huge family she is missing being part of...we all parent differently,we all have different standards.but the fact is they are her family as much as you are...have you asked her want she wants? Could you make peace/ contact with the grandparents and arrange for them to have access once a week...I don't know,but it looks like she's going to see them regardless,so it might be better getting someone from that side of the family on side so to speek.

You've said your dh is having counselling due to this situation, and after all he's done for her (teaching her things her 'dad' should have done) and he's angry with her. I think you'll be surprised how little your dh's feelings matter to your dd and therefore how annoyed she'll be with you for prioritising them. I might be projecting though, as I had an uncannily similar experience to EEzergoode.

Please don't tell your dd the truth about your experiences with him. She might think she carries some of that in her dna and she doesn't need to hear it. She's might have heard how like him she is (physically/mannerisms etc.) from her paternal gps. Above all, please remember none of this is her fault, she'll love him until he gives her enough reason not to.

Bertsfriend,yes I've been watching this thread thinking I've been projecting too...all the time my mum said he was a bad man,I thought he's part of me.i must be bad too...I'm mid 40s now.and obviously still slightly fucked up

Love yes we have support nearby. My dad and sister live very close and my dh'a family are supportive too. Ex and family live 5- t5 minutes drive away.

We already changed her school when she was 10/11 when we moved home so not keen on uprooting her again.

Thank you for the suggestion, don't mean to put up more barriers.

Thanks again eezer and Bert for your perspective. I've definitely got a lot to think about.

There's wanting to protect her but not push her away either. Also have my own health to think about. I'm dreading her getting home from school, I can't cope with her shouting at me about this again.

I'm not prioritising my dh's feelings above hers. There was a brief discussion this morning which my dh initiated before I asked him to keep out so I could talk alone... he was happy to do this. I think he has just seen me going to hell and back again with that whole family. My stress levels and mental health is now manifesting physically.. We are both very aware of not "ganging up on her" so I asked for time alone with her which he did. I said about him having counselling to give a perspective of how difficult everyone has found it. Yes it is about dd but ultimately it has impacted on us too. I am wracked with guilt at all times thinking I should have protected her more and her experiences brought back my own memories...so I got counselling. My dh was the one holding the family together when I couldn't and it's impacted on him over time so he's sought counselling...my dd does not know this.

I know you don't want to uproot your DD again but I would seriously consider packing up and leaving the area. I think space will be the only thing to get them out of your lives - solicitor letters, social services, police etc all seem to be a waste of time and completely ignored.

I understand why you wouldn't want to move, I have moved my dd once already and she would find changing schools again really stressful.

Unicorn I have broached the subject in the past of a possible move to Ireland, dh's family live there (some of them). Although she loves visiting she made it clear she wouldn't want to move. I think a move away would weaken our relationship but I would love it!

Thank you though

Lots of thinking to do.

I have contacted the P.Fiscal. The case is still considered 'active'. It has not been closed and there is no court date as yet...I've been told this is quite normal to wait as long as this
Who told you this?

I'm surprised your solicitor isn't dealing with this.
Seeing as fil is an ex police-inspector i bet he's using his insider knowledge and and contacts to delay things.

Why did your dd agree to go to her dads house?
Are you sure she is attending her weekly counselling sessions or is she leaving early to go see her dad?
I think you need to speak with her counsellor about this so they can discuss it with her.

I know people have advised that you don't tell her more details about the abuse you suffered at his hands, but she obviously doesn't understand why he's dangerous.
She needs to know that this is about much more than him 'slapping her across the face'. The in-laws will have been minimising that, and if she's never been hit by him before she may well be thinking that you're making 'a big deal' over something that can be worked on/forgiven.

She needs to understand and avoid them all.
If that means giving her more details about his abusive behaviour, how it affected the family and how he was always enabled by his own family.....and it helps stop her sneaking away to see him behind your back - then tell her.

Heebie the person on the other end of the phone told me this today. I haven't had any dealings with my solicitor since January this year when she sent out a couple of letters. There was a bit of to-ing and fro-ing through the solicitors and I thought that was the end of the matter. When I called the office this morning I was told my solicitor is on holiday until start of October.

Dd got home from school, made me a cup of tea and acted as though nothing happened. We did chat briefly about things...I stayed calm and had to actually remind her of how to speak to me with respect. She does not see that she should not have lied or went behind my back. She did however tell me that her dad is blaming me for the whole situation apparently his wife had to reign him in.

We will continue speaking this evening.

Sorry heebie, I will answer your other questions shortly

Dd is 100% going to counselling. She is driven there and back and I sit in reception while she goes in. Counsellor walks her to and from the session room, definitely know where she is. Her friends seem to come to our house or they go to the local shops / park although I can't be completely sure that's where she is of course.

She has always maintained that she loves him and will see him again when she can, when she is 16. She does say she understands he was wrong and violence should never ever be condoned but she loves him. I have always told her I understand that and I'm sad she has been put in this situation by him, but it was his actions and choices which led to NC.

Im so sorry OP and I hope you're slightly calmer this evening.

This is something I've never experienced but I feel so very sorry for you and your DD.

It seems to me, as you've acknowledged, that other posters who've experienced this from your DDs perspective are very worth listening to. My first instinct reading this was that you must keep her away from him and his family at all costs and if that means being very honest about what he did to you then so be it BUT I can see how it could end with her pushing you away and I can also see that by revealing his most awful behaviour you could cause damage to her own self worth.

I would continue to do as your doing, tread carefully with her, try to keep her communicating. I'm not surprised she doesn't see that she's done anything wrong in lying to you about seeing him- she thinks she's justified because it's the only way she can see her Dad and she has other adults in her family manipulating her. I doubt she'll accept she owes you an apology at this point. I'd be careful about giving her more information about how he abused you as well at this time, it doesn't sound like she'll listen.

The situation with the criminal investigation is shocking, the lack of a decision is good for no one least of all your DD. I'm not familiar with Scottish law but are there no bail conditions that prevent him seeing her?

Hi doowappydoo

He was not allowed to contact dd, approach her or enter our street for 1 day after being arrested. That's all. As far as I'm aware he has not tried to contact her at all. Although my dd has told lies she has been upfront about situations when asked. As soon as I ask the question she normally tells me but isn't the best at offering up the info. I think they may all think this is different because she sought them out instead of vice versa.

So I got some more info from her.

She got her gran's number from her uncle before Easter then sent her a text. They exchanged a few texts before gran asked her if I knew. Dd replied I didn't then they continued. They arranged for dd to go to her dgps home and when there they called her dad who then turned up.

The second time (last weekend) dd called her gran, who acted as a go between in arranging another meet up. They arranged for her dad to collect her then drop her off. It was during that visit she was told her step mum is pregnant again, and my dd has to defend me and tell him to stop bad mouthing me.

I have remained calm this evening although I did become irritated at one point...I made it clear though it was because of how she was speaking to me.

She's currently upstairs putting on a face mask while I'm feeling like I've had my emotions pummelled all day. Just another sign of her naivety!

Well done for staying calm, she's talking to you and that's really good. Your ex and his family sound horrendous. Is she asking to see her dad again soon? Can you stall until you've had a chance to speak to your solicitor?

I can understand why you are so angry and upset with her - you're scared for her - but I think you have to put the lying/lack of trust issue to one side. She's a child trying to cope in a very adult situation. It's possible that if seeing her dad isn't forbidden it may lose its attraction. It doesn't sound as though being with him/them is a barrel of laughs but allowing her to realise this for herself whilst protecting her from being hurt again is very difficult

Yes she wants to see him again. I'm so torn over what to do. I have went through so many phases of feeling guilty over the last year. I really wish my old thread was still up as it was so full of great advice and reminded me I was doing the right thing...although obviously things have changed since then.

I suppose tomorrow is a new day isn't it? Plus she has counselling tomorrow which is quite good timing. Dd says her counsellor doesn't know about the visits but does know she's wanted to see him. Says she felt too guilty to tell the counsellor. I suppose if anything it will be a relief for her it's out in the open.

Still don't know what to do going forward though. Thanks again to everyone who has commented.