OLD now I get some of the profile comments.

[1DAD2KIDS]

I have dipped my self into the world of online dating again, gluten for punishment. Anyway often on profiles I would see a statement I didn't like much from women with children. Normally 'my kids have got a dad, they don't need another'. I used to find this vulgar, bitter and a turn off.

But reasently I have come across women who don't have kids or want kids, which is fine. But they don't want to be with a man who is the primary carer for his kids as they don't want to play mummy. Sometimes in their profile or their response even though I have not mentioned the kids or alluded to that in the first place. It's fine not to want anything to do with kids but I hate the premise that anyone would think I was looking for a mummy for them. They have a mum in their life. I'm looking for someone for me to share good times with not a mother figure.

So now I see the reason for that comment. Yes probably a bit bitter but forged out of experiance of blokes being suspious of their motive being for a new daddy. Well I get it now and it's a horrible feeling that transcends the genders. Some women think like that too. So it also got me wondering if there is a more elegant way of saying I have kids but not looking for another parent figure?

Oops, too many wants there!

I think that OLD can be really limiting, for those reasons - you may have an idea of your perfect partner, but that by definition discounts anyone outside of those boxes, who you could actually be more compatible with in the long run. My sister uses POF and all her girlfriends are identikit versions of the same thing, and the relationships all end in the same way after a year or so.

I met DH in the years before OLD, on the face of it, it seemed ridiculous to think we would be a couple, he was twice my age, a single dad with sole custody of his two kids, and completely different upbringing to me. However we clicked and have been together for 18 years. I think what I'm trying to say is that it's probably better not to be too prescriptive in your profile and I wouldn't mention the children - keep it simple and see what happens if you meet in person and date.

I think for a vast number of people who are online dating, the most important two questions they want an answer to are
a) do you have children
b) do you want children.

If you are, for example, a woman in her mid-30s who really really wants children of her own, she is not going to want her time wasted by a man who doesn't want children or any more children. Or if you are childfree (don't have and don't want), the last thing you want to do is chat to someone for ages, have a couple of dates and think "I like this person" and they then spring it on you that they are a parent.

Even if you, as a primary carer aren't looking for another mum or dad, a serious relationship is inevitably going to mean the partner having some relationship and involvement with those children. It's important, therefore, in my book, to be totally and utterly up front about it.

So it also got me wondering if there is a more elegant way of saying I have kids but not looking for another parent figure?

I'm really confused, why did you previously think it was vulgar when you read this in profiles? What makes you feel uncomfortable? It's honest and factual.

I'm a 44 year old women with no kids, looking to date men my age and I fully expect that most of the men I meet will have kids and varying levels of childcare responsibilities. I don't mind being told I'm not looking for another parent for my kids, in fact I'm quite relieved.

Just a thought - if you're fulltime carer for your kids have you actually got time to date? What kind of relationship are you looking for? When I'm dating somebody, ideally at minimum I want to meet up for a few hours once a week. As feelings start to develop I'd be looking to increase this. If it was more of a casual set up then meetup once or maybe twice per month for a few hours.

The last man I had a date with didn't mention his 19 year old son on his profile or in any of our pre-date phone chats. On our date he spent time chatting about his son and showing me pictures. I was very confused and thought I'd mixed his profile up with somebody else.

I would think that any woman mentioning that she doesn't want to play mummy is doing so because that's exactly what's been expected of her with previous men she's met!

My DP had a habit of coming round my house with his DCs, suggesting some painting or baking and then buggering off for a nap while I supervised his DCs plus my own 3.

Put a stop to that once I got wise to it, but it has meant I'm not very close to his DCs now after 5 years. I don't think he realises the damage it did, the resentment I felt being a handy unpaid babysitter.

If I was ever dating again I'd make sure to make it clear, this is about me as a woman, wanting a man to spend time with, not about blending families. Don't even bring our kids into it.

Nurse I think that's a very valid point. While I can understand not saying more than that you are a parent on a profile I think it does need bringing up pretty early on in the process how much time you spend with the children and their ages. Because that will indicate how much time this person is going to have to be able to date.

The thing that really got my goat was dads saying "my kids always come first". Of course your DCs are the most important people in your life, but when you're in a relationship sometimes you have to make your partner feel special too. If it were up to my DCs children he would be at their house waiting for them even when they are with their mum, so that if they want to pop over and see him they can. They get every weekend with him, so if we want to go away as a couple, we have to go on a weekday or he swaps days with them. They (well his youngest) get very upset if he swaps days - if he were putting them first he would never be able to take me away for a weekend because they don't like it. But guess what - then we wouldn't be together because I need someone who will occasionally put me first and not drop me at the whim of an 8 year old.

So dads - do us a favour, mention your DCs and that you're very close to them, but also make the point that you have room in your life and heart for someone special too.

The thing is if you're a single parent, its nigh on impossible for you to be in a committed relationship without your partner assuming some of the parental responsibilities if ultimately you all live together.

You want to go out and leave them with the kids, cook everyone dinner, do laundry, drive or collect them, it's practically impossible to live with someone and have no form of parental responsibility if kids involved And living together is where most relationships that are successful go.

So it's fair for someone to say they don't want that. It might not be what your looking for, but ultimately if the relationship works that's where it will end up.

Feed Oh trust me, as a man fed up with OLD, I cannot tell you how many women's profiles included that same phrase "my kids always come first". I think this is why a lot of people want to know if someone has children if they themselves don't. Because in a lot of cases, the new partner without children will make their partner a priority but they themselves will always be second or third priority behind the children. That leads to an unbalanced relationship. Yes, at TIMES the children must be priority, but not ALL the time.

I met my DH on OLD (POF) and recall one of the profile sections you had to complete as being has children or wants children? This was 5 years ago though so it may have changed?

OP When I did OLD I mentioned having kids in my profile, because to me they're such a huge part of my life it would have felt strange not to mention them.

I made some comment about having a good circle of friends, being a devoted mum, but feeling that I now wanted something for myself too.

Hopefully that made me come across as someone who had kids but wasn't desperately looking for a father for them, without actually saying it in so many words.

I put that I have kids on my profile, but nothing else. Better to be open about it as they do impact on my life/availability.

I have had conversations with dates/partners about not looking for a father for them - ime they often worry about that and want reassurance. I wouldn't put it on the profile though.

I'm 43, childfree by choice but happy to date guys with kids, as long as they are fairly independent. I'm honest about this on my profile. I value my freedom and ability to be spontaneous, travel at will, etc. I want to meet someone who is in the same, as much as possible, position. I think you have to be upfront about such important issues when dating.

It doesn't stop some guys who have seen my profile on tinder contacting me via Facebook (which is another issue altogether that pisses me off) with primary school aged kids

I also avoid guys who state guff like 'my kids are my world and come first'. I would take it as a given that most parents adore their kids, and this cliché is telling me in no uncertain terms that I will not factor high in their list of priorities. Of course kids come first ffs, but I want to feel like I'm with someone who makes me feel like a special and important part of their life too, or what's the point, I may as well remain single.

I think there are a lot of good points here. To be fair as pointed out I have little free time so what can I expect? I have had some nice causal set ups in the past with mums in the same boat. They have been nice and shared some lovely experiences, laughs and intimacy. But often hard to get time when both kid free plus I feel that I am looking for something more now. But its a hard sell and maybe its best to see an occasional causal arrangements as the best I can do in the situation. To be fair at 33 I have plenty of time to look for something serious once the kids are grown up. It is the realities of my situation and now I understand why people put it in that abrupt way. I have seen similar abrupt statements by people with disabilities or long term illnesses. Probably a result of previous set backs and it saves time wasting I suppose. And lets face it in an ideal world if we all had a preference I think 99% of people would choose someone who has not go the complications of a family to another person? It can make you feel sort of tainted or damaged goods. Like I say I have no problem with people not wanting to date people with kids, more just that I understand better the pitfalls of this lifestyle than I did before.

To be honest ,compared to me your still quite young and so are your children ,as time goes on and they get older hopefully your free time will increase as they get more independent.
At my age I'm beginning to wonder if it's too late now , I guess not having children until my thirties hasn't helped either as most women of my age have children who have left home.
Not sure what I want to do at the moment!

When I used OLD (admittedly 4 years ago at least!) I put on my profile that I did not have children and would not be interested in meeting anyone that did.

I made the choice not to have the limits imposed on my life that are necessary when you have children, so I don't want those limits imposed on me by other people's children. I appreciate that those with children might see them as "changes" to their lives and not limits, but that just shows what a rubbishy parent I would have made!! Hope I haven't offended. That was not my intention...

Anyway, it appears that quite often people don't even read profiles and men would contact me when the first thing on their profile would be that they had children. When I pointed this out they would either try and convince me I would live their children or go totally the other way and inform me, quite proudly, that they hardly saw them so it wouldn't be an issue. I may not particularly want to spend time with kids - but for goodness sake, as if abandoning your kids is an attractive trait that I would be interested in!!

...I meant "love their children". For goodness sake...

I totally get the no children thing. I never seen a life when I was younger with children (or a wife for that matter). I had no interest in them, back then I sort of was uncomfortable around them and indifferent to them. I was in the forces back then (from leaving school) and all I wanted to do was travel, adventure, maybe a women of various nationalities (crude I know but I was young), earn a bit of brass on my tunic and have a few war stories to natter on about over a pint in the British Legion in my dying years. No where in all of that were kids ever part of the plan. Well that didn't happen. I met a girl in a shady club, fell in love, married, had kids. Then the travel and adventure stopped. I fell instantly in love when I held my first born and it broke my heart every time I had to go away (which was a lot due to the nature of my skill set). So I left and got a normalish job. And as the cookie crumbled eventually I was left to raise them by my self. I wouldn't have changed them for the world now they are my everything. But if I didn't have them I would have still been happy filling my boots in the job I loved and the lifestyle I loved? Of course I would I bloody loved it. So kids change everything and if you love the freedom of a kids free lifestyle power to you and obviously don't have kids (you will fall in love with them and it will change everything) and I suppose don't get with someone who has parental responsibility.

It's not just the children situation that can be a problem. You're interests can as well
.a little story from last year , met someone on a first date from pof had messaged for a couple of days ,then met for coffee and obviously talked about interests etc. As soon I mentioned my music likes was rock and heavy metal . Her exact words were "I can't date you as you're obviously weird and a Satanist !" I didn't hang around after that comment .
Just proves you never know what you'll find when OLD
Still makes me laugh a year later !

DH likes Slipknot And Slayer. he has to use his headphones though because it gives me a headache. Hes 67. I take it you are a bit older too as you have had your kids later.

@Helena your dh has good taste ,seen both live . 49 in a couple of months . Was 30(ish )when I had my eldest!

roverman75 I think its just POF living up to its reputation for nutters. I mean honestly who jumps to those conclusions? Who is that small minded that they come up with such a response?

Bet that was LOUD.

Slipknot are well known but cos of the masks they wear you could walk past them in the street and not know.

They arent silly because this way they dont get hassled. Im 44 so i grew up listening to Madonna.

Roverman both you and 1DAD sound like proper hands on dads which is different to what women usually experience.

A neighbour of mine was dating a dad and every time it was his contact weekend he would pick up his child bring him to my neighbours for her to look after then go out on a piss up with his mates. She ended it after two months.

@Helena I had no choice as their mother ran off with someone and abandoned them , we had been separated for a couple of years before hand due to her cheating , I lost a relationship due to having to take the kids on .might still be a bit pissed about that and the huge debts she left !
I grew up listening to Madonna and 80's pop then an older girlfriend got me into rock and metal ,ironic considering the thread title !
I've met both slayer and slipknot backstage so I would recognise them .
I fell asleep at monsters of rock years ago while slayer were playing live !,guess I can sleep through anything!