Mil doing strange things again, can't work the woman out.

[Chamonix1]

So we are due baby number 2 in Dec, mil and fil were happy (mil more so as fil couldn't get his head around anyone having more than 1 child!?)
Anyway, always had a fractured relationship with them, it's intense and seems to be fine when absolutely nothing is done that could possible offend or upset mil (it's very easy to do this, we had tears because we didn't look excited enough when we bumped into them for example).
They love dd (4) and often pester to take her, recently less so.
They usually like to see us a lot, again recently less so.
Yesterday they took daughter whilst we had a scan, they had asked to take her for the whole day and night, as dd would enjoy this we agreed and we got some boring adult life stuff sorted.
When we dropped dd off we were 15 minutes late as I was rushing family to a local airport and traffic was bad. We pulled onto the drive and they both came out and the following happened-

1. "we want to get out straight away before the weather turns we want to go on the kayak! And we are using our sons old life vest for your daughter.
2. where is our grandchilds first day at school photos (already told them they're on the big camera and not yet on the computer to send out)
3. (MIL) I've bought this book it's all about dressing daddy up in silly outfits, what I'm going to do is cross "Daddy" out and wrote "grandad".

This all sounds petty now I've written it. But considering we've been "told off" and "sat down" for pet talks about not greeting them properly when they arrive, had tears about not being included and pushing them out of our daughters life (she loves them so much, I honestly don't know how they think that's happened if we push them out) and had rage off fil in several occasions for upsetting mil for not being loving etc I can't believe they think it's fair to act like this.
This really is the tip of the iceberg I cannot go into all the detail I'd be here all year. If I'm honest, I've found mil's behaviour hugely toxic over 6 years and she's ramping herself up again just before new baby arrives. Like she did with dd and every special occasion.
The book thing has upset me and this husband so much. Can you imagine if I shoved a book under her nose "look this is a book all about Nana, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to cross "nana" out and write MUMMY"
Dd is having trouble adjusting already to the idea of a sibling and came home on Monday (after a day with these people) really angry and upset saying (for the first time) that we won't love her anymore and there's only time for the baby when it's here
She says a lot this week "daddy doesn't love Me" which is heartbreaking, he works away mon-fri so she sees very little of him.
Surely a sane Nana would encourage her granddaughter to love her daddy, not so strange things that would confuse and upset any 4 year old.
I really truly believe she is trying to turn our daughter on us, just as she accuses me of doing with her son.
I'm sad that we can't seem to manage a nice normal happy and healthy relationship with them but I'm fed up of jumping through hoops and trying to include them both as much as I can and make them feel special (they get invited to every single thing that dd is involved in, bought sentimental presents on those special occasions, messages replied to and pictures sent off dd between weekly visits etc and I try and show interest in them both). After yesterday it was clear I've done something to upset, mil made it very obvious and she had this nasty look on her face, proud of the thins she had just said that she knew would hurt.
This has turned into a huge ramble, I honestly don't know what it'll achieve but I needed to let it all out.
She sabotaged my last pregnancy and I can see her edging in again, it's just such a shame

Fizzy- she's not picking her up as mil is working when dd needs collecting.
I do wonder how DH would've dealt with it had she been free to
Collect her.

She may love all the attention, but she's also coming back with daddy doesn't love me and fears about being pushed out by the baby created by them.

She's 4. You're her parents.

You are going to end up with a very troubled child and extremely difficult relationship with her unless you stop them.

Chamonix,

"I love dd and do want to protect her".

Good. So prove that point further by keeping her and your as yet unborn child from these toxic people who are your H's parents.

Your people pleasing behaviours are still costing you very dearly and you are in your own FOG state. Your H cannot be relied upon to protect his children also due to his own FOG. He has to accept that his parents are not normal parents at all, they see him as an extension of their own disordered selves.

Re this from you-
I lost my own dad when I was little and I don't want to be the person who puts a barrier up between DH's parents and us in case he blames me later on.

That is not how this works at all. What would your late father say about the way you two and your children are being treated?. They are the ones who have caused this dysfunction, not you.

You have already endured 6 years of toxic behaviour from these two; when DO the two of you say no more and draw that line in the sand. Your child is too young to realise she is being emotionally manipulated and used by her grandparents against you as her parents.

Re your child as well you are simply storing up problems for her future if you let this carry on:-

"They gladly do this and she is a bit of a prima donna in their company which I detest, they don't say no to her she gets everything and anything she wants from them".

Life will come crashing down around her ears soon enough as well particularly if she becomes the scapegoat to your as yet unborn child.

Sorry I have only skimmed over a few of your posts! I know your daughter loves her grandparents but there relationship is not healthy they seem too involved you even said you make more than a effort than your husband!! Why? Why put yourself and your daughter through that shit!!

One of the main reasons we still see them is because we cant cope with the abuse when we don't.

You don't have do put up with their abuse. You are allowed not to talk to them or see them. And so is your husband.

Personally I woud have no contact with them. But if you want to continue to have some contact with them, you need to teach them that their actions have consequences.

Listen to me, please.

My OH and his ExW had their first baby and got married at 18. OH's mother made his ExW's life an absolute misery. It really, seriously affected her - it was like a bloody novel, by all accounts.

And the worst thing - the child is now an adult and right up the MiL's backside (she lends this DC money) whilst OH and ExW get the bums rush.

You need to stop this now. NOW. Bad shit really does happen to nice people like you.

Just picked dd up from a play date with her cousin. The moment I walk in the door dd turns on me, I come in smiling and ready to hug her and she squirms away. She strops to the car and announces as soon as she sees daddy there that we don't love her, the baby will get the love and she will be "banished".
When asked where she's heard that she says my mum! My mum! What the hell do I do now.
Guess I should cut contact from her in all.
She's cried herself to sleep with us trying to convince her we love her lots.
I can't work out if this is all baby related anxiety out of nowhere or what.
I feel a terrible parent. Yet again another stressful pregnancy and I'm petrified what it'll be like when baby arrives.

FFS - listen to what people are telling you on this thread!

Yes. Go no contact.
I guess with both Nana's now as she's told me my own mum told her she would be "banished from the family"
This is just what I need right now. I knew this would happen when I got pregnant.

I think I'll leave the thread here as it is now.
Thanks for the help everyone.

chamonix I don't really have too much to add here, I just wanted to give you a hug. It's very easy for us, this side of our keyboards, to see what's going on, but it's a lot harder when it's your family it's happening to.

You poor girl. Maybe try thinking of your MIL as a badly trained dog. Would you leave your DD alone with it? No. Would you allow her to pet it under carefully controlled conditions? Probably, but you'd want to be in charge of what was going on...

And don't necessarily believe your DD about who she says told her things. It may be that the thoughts are coming from inside herself but she's attributing them to others because she doesn't want to admit that it's her that thinks these things. You're more likely to be sympathatic and reassuring if she says 'somebody' told her, rather than saying it's what she believes.

They're abusing you and your DD.

There's a connection, you know. Your mum taught you to be a people pleaser. Your own mum taught you to put up with the shit your MiL chucks your way.

You can tell them both to bog off.

They will fuck with your daughter's head. They're already doing it.

I think allowing this behaviour is allowing your DD to be abused and if you really cared about her you'd stop that at any cost and now think about 'poor you'.

How on earth is it your fault? Stop blaming yourself because you're pregnant - honestly. Please be kinder to yourself.

You're trying to do good things here by involving your PILs, but you need to accept that they aren't interested in doing good things for you.

Please don't just walk away from this thread.

OP, people here will help you.

Oh, Chamomix, this sounds very hard,

I feel it highly unlikely that your Mum said that to her, 'banished' is a word from a fairytale.

I suspect that your intelligent, primal Donna, bolshy , dramatic, confident Dd is working herself and you up,

I am sure she IS anxious about the baby, and working through dramatic situations and punishing you is her way of dealing with it. I told neighbours I had a serious illness and had to go to hospital when I was 4 and felt my younger siblings were getting attention.

I also think your ILs are pretty toxic and some boundaries will help.

None of it is your fault.

Look after yourself.

Thank you camper
I suspect you are right. I was surprised to hear the word "banished" too.
Just going to put all my time into dd and hope she feels more confident about the baby.
In the mean time in laws won't be seeing her alone, we have told them this today.

Chamonix

How did that go down with the ILs; like a lead balloon I expect. I would also think they will now put pressure on their son further to have that decision reversed.

You all need to stay well away from his parents on a permanent basis.
There is no coming back from what they have done. You can set boundaries for your own self in relationships and I would also look at those with a therapist. These have been far too low to date and your ILs have taken full advantage of same. Setting boundaries for them is going to be far more problematic mainly because they do not have any and will completely ignore any boundary you care to set them.

I would also urge you to seriously consider getting some counselling for yourself in future. Your people pleasing tendencies learnt from your mother have cost you and your family unit most dearly and you also played right into your toxic ILs hands because of that too.

Will your man be at all willing to sit with a therapist or is he still nowhere near that point yet?.

It sounds as though you get hammered on all sides because you were 18 when you had DD and they want to keep you stuck in that "naughty girl" state.

I would not let any of them see DD without you and see as little of them as possible for some time to come.

Be brave and uses phrases like "I'm an adult and DD is my daughter so I get to decide that". If anything inappropriate is said in your presence "Time to leave now we're not here to listen to nastiness/criticism"

Failing all else move far, far away...

Chamonix

Emotionally healthy family members are good to have around; your ILs are not healthy by any stretch of the imagination and nor actually is your mother. She taught you a lot of damaging crap, particularly with regards to people pleasing, and all that needs to be unlearnt now before you potentially pass on those same lessons to your kids.

Attila.
DH told them it was for our daughters sake she is not going to grandparents houses as she is struggling wth the new baby idea, that we need to focus on her and she needs to feel loved by us and need consistency.
Mil said she had been wonderfully behaved for her and that dd seemed excited about the baby and then told us that it's a shame my mum will also miss out (basically cementing its not just them).
My mum doesn't take dd alone, very rarely. We catch up with other family and see each other all together. I've told my own mum very bluntly that she taught me to people please and actually it's important to teach self worth and she did me no favours there. She sees my point and if I'm honest I think she agrees. She herself will wear herself down to help others, she always has done. She isn't an easy person but she is a genuine person and does love dd and actively encourages dd to love and respect her parents, enforcing things she knows me and my DH do as parents.
My in laws have always ignored our parental values and are just interested in been the perfect fun and giving grandparents, they don't respect their son or me. DH says he's had issues with his mum crying and being very needy since he was 18 and she is just getting worse.
He doesn't feel like he should have counselling says why should he when his mum gets off without it, I did point out it's not a punishment but in fact something that would be good for him and that will make his life nicer.
He has a host of issues, so do I but mine are different.
I have had counselling before when I lost my father but yes I will be getting some more. This isn't going to be easy with nobody to offer childcare as DH works away 5 days a week, something very convenient for him regarding his parents indeed.

Random.
Yes pretty much. I was young, pregnant, scared and hormonal and I tried to just make a nice relationship with them.
I could see they had a very fractured relationship wth their son but I'd hoped things would improve, very naively indeed but I had no idea what I was wondering into really.
I just wanted a nice extended family relationship with them but really they want to be so heavily involved and have pushed to the point I feel suffocated and if I'm honest a bit scared of them!
I would like to move away. Closer to DH's work as he has a 2.5 hour commute each way each day so we don't get to see him but he sees this as letting his parents win and won't do it because of them.

Chamonix

You are so right in thinking that both of you have a whole host of issues.

I am glad that you are going to seek further counselling for your own self. An investment like that in you is well worth it. Bear in mind though that such people are like shoes, you need to find someone who fits. Interview them carefully, treat it like you would a job interview.

Your DH should reconsider counselling. His mother being as disordered of thinking as she is, is not going to ever go to any therapy sessions primarily because she thinks she has done nothing wrong here re either you or him. As you rightly state, its not a punishment.

I would like to move away. Closer to DH's work as he has a 2.5 hour commute each way each day so we don't get to see him but he sees this as letting his parents win and won't do it because of them.

He needs to realise this is not about winning or losing; self preservation has to come into play here and his parents have done quite enough emotional harm to him and in turn you all already.

If you yourself want to move away then he should give that due consideration. Its not just him here. A 2.5 hour commute each way is very tiring but is his way of getting away from them particularly if he is not around Monday through Friday. I think on some level he cannot or will not deal with them at all so uses his job to get away from them. However, he cannot expect you to be his buffer to them.