Marriage feels dead in the water

[Marriageintrouble]

I'm at a point where I'm no longer sure that I want to be in my marriage and I just don't know what to do.
We're both 45, married 15 years, 4dc (youngest is 5). He's a surgeon so long hours, oncalls, weekend work etc. I work part time in school hours.

It's always been great, he's been my best friend, we support each other etc etc but over the last few months or so it's changed. He always seems so stressed with work and never seems to have time for me and dc. They even call him moody. He runs and plays tennis and it feels like he's happy doing that but not doing stuff with me and the dc.

Our sex life is virtually non existent with him having ED the last couple of times we've tried. It's always me that tries to initiate it (never used to be) and I'm tired of the rejection. Menopausal symptoms are making me feel fat and ugly so self esteem is pretty low at the moment.

I've began to wander what he brings to the marriage other than money. I've tried talking to him and we've had tearful conversations. He always seems shocked when I mention divorce (he's adamant that he wants to stay together so as not to disrupt the dc) and realises we're in a down phase but seems to think that it will naturally pick up again. He won't consider counselling although I've wondered if it'd help me alone.

He loves me but doesn't seem in love with me, he's affectionate as in a peck on the cheek, hair rub but there's no real intimacy. We occasionally go on date nights and have a nice time but I get frustrated with the lack of sex afterwards.

I can't talk to any friends as they're pretty much all mutual and it would feel like betraying him hence why I'm asking a bunch of strangers on the internet. Does it sound like our marriage is dead? What can we do to salvage it if he's not willing to try? I don't want to split up but equally I don't want to be in a sexless marriage. Im pretty sure there's no one else involved as he wouldn't have time for an affair.

Marriage

What do you get out of this relationship now, what needs of yours is he meeting here?. What is keeping you within this, what is in this for you?.

You cannot act ever as a rescuer or saviour in a relationship. You also cannot rescue or save this on your own; he has to want to accept his part in this relationship being as it is as well. And it does not look like he wants to; he wants to stay simply as not to disrupt the children.

Re your comment:-
"He always seems shocked when I mention divorce (he's adamant that he wants to stay together so as not to disrupt the dc)"

That's a terrible reason to stay together actually; it simply places an intolerable burden upon the children who then grow up knowing that their parents marriage was based on a lie.

Have you mentioned divorce to him more than once?. What lessons are these children learning about relationships from the two of you here?. Would you want your children when adults to have a relationship like yours is; currently at least you are showing them this is acceptable to you. He is not affectionate with you, there is no sex life and pertinently your children call him moody; they are noticing what is happening here at home with mum and dad and it cannot be denied otherwise. They pick up on all the vibes.

You do not need anyone's permission to leave the marriage, only your own. I would seek counselling for your own self and talk about this in a calm environment and without him.

There is always an opportunity to have an affair if he so chooses; he would find the time and make the effort. Do not think he would not have time to have an affair.

I would also read "Too good to leave, too bad to stay" by Mira Kirshenbaum

Thanks attila. I'm not sure what to say as I guess I was hoping that someone would just come along and say it would all be fine. You're right, I'm pretty sure the dc do pick up on it and I really don't want to stay together just for them as it's not fair. We have talked about splitting up. Or rather I have. He says that this is the dc home and he doesn't want them to move although realistically we wouldn't be able to keep this house plus a second one.
I'll have a look at the book.

I would also consider seeking legal advice re separation and the family home because it may well be that you could remain in it with your children. You do not have to act on any legal advice straight away but knowledge after all is power.

As you rightly state it really is not fair to stay together for the children; it teaches them a lot of damaging lessons on relationships and they could well think that a loveless marriage is their norm too.

Sounds like how my marriage was just before STBXH cut and run, literally....he was stressed at work, distant blah blah. It transpired he was seeing an OW. I said mine didn't have the time either but he had lunchtimes and used working on the odd Saturday for his alibi. I'm not saying your DH is having an affair OP but I keep seeing posts on here all the time about middle aged me doing this shit.

*men not me...

@Marriageintrouble you've mentioned that you're not feeling great in yourself, so counselling sounds like it could be helpful, for better understanding of yourself as well as these issues in your marriage.

You talk about your husband's career and his hobbies - what are yours? Do you enjoy your work? Do you have to work part time or is that your choice? What's the share of household work like?

It's positive that you go on dates and have a good time. What would happen if you weren't hoping they would end in sex? Would you value them still? Who does the organising and initiating for the dates?

Is there anything that could have sparked the change of the last few months?

I wouldn't advocate staying in an unhappy relationship, and both parties have to want to make things better and put in the effort to ensure they do. But I've seen several couples go through periods of relationship deterioration, constant conflict and strife and pull it back into something good and strong again. It doesn't always end in divorce.

Oh god bbibbidee, don't say that. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I'm as sure as I can be that he's not having an affair. I did think it a couple of months ago but we spoke about it and I don't think he is....

Just adding that it is very unlikely to pick up naturally on its own. It doesn't have to be counselling, but it will need some actions from him.

This is where it would be useful to talk to a counsellor - you can express what you want to say to your husband, the counsellor can help you to phrase things in ways that are assertive/dispassionate/help you feel calm and in control, you can practice having the conversation with them and explore how you would deal with various responses.

There are no prizes for staying in a crap marriage. A friend of mine had ten years of a great marriage and then it all went down hill. She sees her marriage as a success in terms of what they achieved together but it was time to call it a day and co-parent. I like her philosophy, she doesn't say her marriage failed, it didn't just that as individuals they had different longer term goals now.

I'm a single mum and I would take my life any day of the week rather than be in a crap relationship.

I also think lack of intimacy is a deal breaker. You can't expect someone to live a life of forced celibacy.

I hope you find the strength to make the right decision for you.

chevre I've worked part time ever since the dc came along. Working pt works great for all of us. I'm there for the dc and can get things done at home so weekends can mainly be spent without doing chores. Financially we're lucky as we have a cleaner but aside from that I do most things in the house but he does bins/recycling and garden so it's a good split and there's no resentment. The job I'm currently doing is ok but doesn't fulfill me as much as my previous career did. It was a joint decision to give that up as I felt I couldn't commit fully to either work or the dc. Hobbies wise, I love to exercise too which fits in around my hours and I have friends a a great social life so pretty much very happy with my lot.

I do value our dates as we still get on very well and make each other laugh etc. In the past we would have always had sex after a date (or at least attempted drunken sex!) as it just feels so natural. We used to laugh that we'd still be shagging in our 90s. I'm usually the one that initiates and organises dates but that's simply because I tend to like to plan and know what I'm doing.

I'm not sure what's sparked the change. His df died last year so I have wondered whether there's an element of depression there. Other than that work is extremely stressful and full on.

I am going to go against the grain here and say I think this is a marriage worth trying to save. I think you need to sit your husband down and say that you're seriously contemplating divorce but you will give the marriage a chance if he agrees to put the effort in too.
This means:
Seeking help for the marriage by going to counselling.
Working out whether the ED is a symptom of something such as him no longer fancying you, just being stressed or if it's something that can be helped by counselling/a visit to the GP. Tell him you don't want to live in a sexless marriage.
That he addresses his moodiness and works out how to control his stress at work so that the time he spends with you and dcs is nice family time.
I think it's worth a shot? Everyone on here will tell you a)he's having an affair b) to just leave but your husband could be right that this is a down phase and may get better.
Who's to say you'll find happiness elsewhere? You might but you might not. I think you should give your marriage a GP but warn your DH this is his one chance to get on board

*marriage a chance

Without sounding full on mental, can I just say that you guys are all great. I'm often on other parts of mn but have read threads on relationships and it amazes me just how much time and great advice you all give. So thank you. It's good to finally voice my worries.

Posting to agree with everything Oly5 wrote.

I agree with oly.
Your marriage sounds like it's going through a rough patch. Lack of sex would definitely bother me, so you need to be able to work on that together. The fact that he's suffered from ED would put him off it I imagine.
The fact that you can have a laugh together on a date is what makes me think it's worth fighting for.
Also, it does sound like he could be depressed. Maybe about his DF.
The way you describe him makes him sound nice. It also sounds like you still love him.

I think you should try and save it. You sound like a good match and life has just got on top of you both. I hope this won't be me in 15 years time as we are that many years behind you on a similar path (husband hospital dr, number two on the way, sahm for now but planning part time later) could you husband change his hours or go to a part time contract? Is he worried he's using up his while life working? I could imagine that loosing your father could make you feel like this.

Do you both like the same sports? I find going for a run together is a good way to.talk, it's less intense than sitting down together and he might open up?

My dh occasionally hates his job and feels overwhelmed by being trapped in the system, it really helps us to talk about it and I always tell him that at the end of the day he can walk away from it as I would always value his happiness over a well paid job. It's our three year anniversary today so I am by no means an expert on marriage, but think about why you got together and why (or why not ) it is worth fighting for.

I think when a parent dies it does odd things to a person - sounds like he's depressed and wondering what it's all about. Personally I would not talk about divorce unless you really really mean it. Bringing the relationship into question without meaning it is not a good idea. And pressuring him with divorce is a real downer. Speaking as someone who's 20 year relationship died due to lack of sex and all I have learned - I would say you need to talk about it but without pressure and without anger (easier said than done after 2 years without in my case). After the fallout of my relationship my ex told me at the time when it stopped he was very very depressed at all his failures - but didn't tell me how much, plus my emotionality at being rejected just dug a deeper hole - so tread carefully. Other advice has been very good - look after yourself and your own life. What about planning a trip he has always wanted to do?

I am not saying this is the case here but I could have written your post 4 years ago. My then husband was less and less interested in our relationship and the only thing that seemed to make him happy was running which I supported. It turns out he was having an affair. I literally did not have a clue. He was my best friend and I trusted him 100%.
Please just be alert to the possibility and think about whether there are any signs. My EXH was also very stressed at work and working very long hours - or so he said.

I have messaged you

He could be depressed. ED is a symptom of depression.

I think with what you have and the fact this has only been going on a few months means that for now you try and keep the dialogue open and see what you can both do to work around the problems.

It seems a lot to give up without a fight, particularly the fact you have 4 children.

I would imagine he is having an affair, having been through similar for years, plus seen it with others, plus his career and work patterns. Unfortunately, unless he can stop it affecting your relationship, there is very little you can do, it was so so hard to prove for me, in the end he admitted it, the years of depression, moodiness and ED suddenly made sense. Sorry to be depressing, I only say it because it might help you if you are trying to save the relationship. If he is not fully present in the marriage, it will be an uphill battle. Maybe the shock of talking about divorce might make him see he has checked out of your marriage to an extent.

Ah, I missed your last comment as well. There is always time for an affair, sorry.

A person cannot save a marriage on their own; its takes both parties equally to do that.

This man certainly knows what he does not want. He sounds like he has checked out on some level and seems happy as he is with his work and his outside interests of running and tennis. He does not want a divorce (mainly so as not to disrupt the DC so uses them) nor does he seemingly want to work at addressing his ED or the marriage so leaving OP in a very awkward position.

This man has told the OP that he does not want counselling so OP would be better off anyway seeing someone on her own. She needs to be able to talk in a calm environment.

Are you absolutely sure there is no OW? Sounds to me like he's investing his emotions elsewhere? Hence none left for you and the dc

The ED may just be guilt

Otherwise if you are certain then I would try to hang on in there - ups and downs of married life are normal. For a couple of months here and there.

Talk to him again. Work is always going to be stressful! It's about managing that stress and not projecting it on your family on a long term basis

I'd bet a large amount of money that he's having an affair.