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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Gifting as a form of control?

29 replies

PinkPuffin · 19/08/2017 00:00

Not entirely sure what I want to get from this post, but this issue has been bothering me greatly. I think I just want to know if anyone understands what I mean. I've posted here to avoid the AIBU type answers...

DH has a difficult relationship with his father. FIL wants only the best for his children but has very fixed ideas about what this means and struggles to understand other people not wanting the same things in life. Over the past year, their relationship improved considerably and we were no longer dreading visits.

Last week I wrote our car off in a stupid bump. DH and I both called our parents and FIL immediately assumed we wanted money, which was absolutely not why we were calling. He said he wanted to contribute to our new car but wanted a say in which one we were getting. Seems fair enough. They are very well off and are quite generous. However, when FIL helps us out financially (we've never asked) he always manages to make us feel bad about accepting it. It feels as if he offers us help we could really do with but then makes us feel bad for needing/accepting it. Today I mentioned how much bad luck my scrape had been and he said "bad luck?!" in a really unpleasant tone when he knows I'm not a confident driver. He then made us a really generous offer and said "This is it with cars though, I bought you one car and you sold it (10years ago, when DH moved to Australia, you still owe Puffin's dad money for the car you've written off (we don't, we probably told him that because the alternative was being lectured on the evils of loans), this is the last time!" It was just so unpleasant! We hadn't asked him for any money yet he's making us feel like we're greatly inconveniencing him. I feel I'm not explaining myself very well, but he regularly makes us feel like he doesn't trust us to be capable of being adults. Our lives aren't where we would like them to be but we are by no means a basket case. Today he yet again made me feel like a stupid little girl and to be frank made me to scared to test drive our new car and ruined my day!

Does anyone understand what I'm trying to say and why this dynamic upsets me?

OP posts:
PinkPuffin · 19/08/2017 00:04

Should add that FIL made several nasty comments to his wife today that seemed designed to make her feel stupid and would have greatly upset me...

OP posts:
Siwdmae · 19/08/2017 00:12

But you're still going to take money/a new car from him? That would be really dumb.

MagdalenLaundry · 19/08/2017 00:14

Stop telling him so much
Take no money. Act like adults and don't depend on him

gluteustothemaximus · 19/08/2017 00:19

Agree. Don't take the money.

Yes, it can be a way to control. Don't let it.

Ellisandra · 19/08/2017 00:21

So you already took the money and bought the car? That's a shame.

Save up and pay him back.

You know when you said it was fair enough he got an input into the type? It really wasn't. )Unless he was saying "I'll give you £5K towards a Focus, not a hobby 1965 MG for restoration".)

You really need to understand that he really doesn't get the right to buy his way into the decision.

Save up, pay him back and stop accepting money off him.

And - please, take some lessons. It does my head in, the number of people on here who say they're not confident drivers. Roads are dangerous for all of us. Work out why you lack confidence. If it's technical skills - lessons. If it's practice - stop letting your husband drive every time (if you do!) and make a point of driving every time to get your experience up. If it's a more general anxiety issue than driving - get counselling. I don't think it's good enough for people to just say "I'm not a confident driver". Sort that out!

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 19/08/2017 00:40

He is a bully (based on your description of how he treats mil) and doing you a favor buys him a license to entertain himself at your expense. It is perfectly OK to stop caring what he thinks (so much) (or at all).
Or
Why are you accepting the money/car if you have finances enough to provide for yourselves? Perhaps this might be an underlying circumstance that may have fil feeling irritated and/or feeling used. Thus, the comments could be a bit of backlash (green light "go" for a bully). That you did not ask for the money is not really relevant after you accepted it, imho. You could say No Thank You.

Also, you can revise your policy on what to tell the parents. They don't need to know everything ...especially if it will lead to an automatic presumption that your telling of an event is an implied request for help/funds.

I'm glad you were not hurt in the bump that totaled your car!

HadronCollider · 19/08/2017 00:51

Your FIL sounds like he enjoys the position of having you beholden to him so he can control your decisions. Which is crap, but the thing is, when people give you money, they can be as swarmy and gittish about it as they like and you just have to suck it up. Your choice is to refuse, or accept and take it. It is very generous of him to buy you a new car, but you truly didn't have to accept it. What if you didn't have parents in a position to help, like millions of people? And why did you both call your parents and mention it at all?

At the end of the day, he should be less controlling and magnanimous about it, but as long as you're accepting 'gifts' from him, he can be as swarmy as he likes and yes, hold it over you. I agree he's being controlling etc, but at the end of the day I think you should just grit your teeth and ignore as much as possible if you are accepting stuff. Tell him he can keep his gifts and make him respect you.

zzzzz · 19/08/2017 00:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BubblingUp · 19/08/2017 01:05

You can't take any money - at all ever. It doesn't matter you are not asking for it. He still offers and you still take it - so it appears you are hinting around for it. This is totally on you. This is garden variety "strings attached" gifting which is pretty common. Never take the money.

supersop60 · 19/08/2017 02:16

You have the car now, so you might as well enjoy it. Just don't accept anything else from him (or is he the kind of person that will be 'hurt and rejected' if you don't?) Either way, he is controlling and you need to step away.
"That's very kind of you to offer, Dad, but we're fine" - practise saying it!

thestamp · 19/08/2017 02:49

Im really confused as to why you accept money from him?

EssentialHummus · 19/08/2017 03:01

Your FIL sounds like he enjoys the position of having you beholden to him so he can control your decisions.

I agree with this. Next time he offers you money, remember that it's not really free. Ideally (this is what I do with my parents for a related reason) buy whatever you need/sort the problem yourself, then if it comes up in conversation with him the problem has already been dealt with, within your means and you can present it as such.

Aussiebean · 19/08/2017 03:07

He is the way he is. What changes is how you deal with it.

You didn't have to tell everyone the car was written off. You could have rung him a week later and said the car was written off so we got this car. Done, dusted and no need for him to offer you money.

You don't have to tell him all the details of your life. Life is well, work is going good and all ok.

You can vent to others , but not to him because you know what he is like.

You are giving someone who abuses power ALL the power. Drop the rope, step back and carry on.

And agree with the others. If you haven't taken the money already. Don't.

RefuseTheLies · 19/08/2017 03:12

I don't think it's good enough for people to just say "I'm not a confident driver". Sort that out!

Not being a confident driver doesn't make you a shit driver or even a bad driver. You can be a perfectly good driver but just not feel confident in your abilities. I don't think berating women for their perceptions of their skills is helpful. I'm fairly certain women are less likely to have accidents than men, but society constantly bemoans 'bloody women drivers'. The issue is far larger than can be sorted by having a few extra lessons.

Op - your fil sounds like an arsehole. Stop taking his money and stop telling him things about your life. Unless I sustained serious injuries, I can't imagine a scenario where I crash my car and my DH phones his parents to tell them.

SweetLuck · 19/08/2017 03:25

It sounds like you were lulled into a false sense of security by the fact that their relationship has imporoved recently, so this feels a little 'out of the blue'.

Something to remember the next time.

Why did you ring both of your parents straight away after you'd crashed the car?

Ellisandra · 19/08/2017 10:59

My comment has fuck all to do with this particular OP being a woman, or society's perception of women drivers Hmm

I didn't say that she was even a bad driver - in my suggested actions, I clearly separate technical ability from more general anxiety, for example.

Not being confident could definitely affect the way that she drives, and that affect could be negative.

She should take steps to improve her confidence.

PinkPuffin · 19/08/2017 11:37

So many things I want to say, not sure where to start. I did have lessons to address my confidence issues. I have already booked more. I called my parents because I was shaking and panicking after it happened and wanted some support. DH called his because it is OUR car and he was there when it happened and he was angry at me but didn't want to let it show. He also fully believes FIL wants a better relationship with him, so he tries to involve him.

Re accepting the money: I agree we shouldn't have. I have tried to explain on here before, but it's really hard to convey how these situations go. FIL offers to pay for things which would make our lives much easier but which we could manage without (wedding breakfast, car, house deposit). We think (hope) there's no harm in accepting, because we could manage without, and this is his way of helping. Then FIL is an arse about how we spend it. It really doesn't feel like he is trying to help, because he never asks if we want something, it's always on his terms, making it feel like he just does it to control us. The one time we gently suggested we didn't want to accept his offer of money for a deposit because we weren't even considering buying a house as we couldn't afford to save up for it, it got really awkward really quickly, he seemed offended that we didn't want his money and starting sounding really unpleasant. We accepted his money, but we haven't been able to add to it yet, so it's just sitting in an ISA.

FWIW, MIL immediately lent us £1000 on the understanding that we will use it for a car because she didn't want us to struggle. That was done out of kindness and didn't create tensions.

I know our financial situation is messed up, we're working hard on dealing with that. FIL is difficult in many other ways too, he can neither control nor express his emotions in a mature way. He does care about his children (according to DH), but has a funny way of showing it. A few years ago when DH finished his degree and our lease was up, FIL came to visit and insisted on seeing DH alone. All he did was tell DH he needed to get his life sorted in a really unpleasant way. I was there to witness him saying "You're going to end up in the street, no money, no house, no job" as a means of saying goodbye. Sure, I suppose he was worried, but FFS. He's never had faith in our ability to manage our lives and he won't even give us the benefit of the doubt. He thinks we're losers and no matter what we do, it doesn't seem to be good enough.

I really don't think it is about wanting to use the money for other things, he's so rich £3K is small change to him.

I really want to have the inevitable fight but DH just wants to keep hoping things will get better. The only time they did was when DH stood up to FIL when he was trying to take control of our wedding planning with 0 consideration for our wishes.

OP posts:
PinkPuffin · 19/08/2017 11:42

I think the whole money issue could be summed up as "is it rude not to accept unsolicited financial help which would make our lives easier (which the giver is aware of)?"

OP posts:
PinkPuffin · 19/08/2017 11:49

Thing is, we'd happily accept that help from others because they're not arsey about it.

OP posts:
AngelaTwerkel · 19/08/2017 11:56

"FIL offers to pay for things which would make our lives much easier but which we could manage without (wedding breakfast, car, house deposit). We think (hope) there's no harm in accepting, because we could manage without, and this is his way of helping. Then FIL is an arse about how we spend it."

Why do you continue with this cycle? Each time you do this the same thing happens, so just stop accepting money. Of course it's not rude to refuse it: you're adults, with your own lives and financial autonomy. Why do you care about appearing rude when your FIL certainly doesn't give a shit about appearing the same?

museumum · 19/08/2017 12:01

You need to refuse the money and make it clear why.
Call him and say:
"We've thought about what you said about feeling like you're always bailing us out with car help. You're right so this time we will say no thank you to your offer and we will save for our own car ourself".

EmilyDickinson · 19/08/2017 12:11

I'm afraid that you're right OP. Your FIL is using financial gifts as a way of controlling you and his son. It's clear that he sees himself as the adult and the two of you as children, so he's doling out cash and then having a moan about how much you're costing him. I suspect in some way it suits him to treat you like children as it makes him feel superior.

Many parents willingly help their adult children out without resenting and belittling them, but he doesn't seem to be one of them.

As other posters have said the only solutions are either taking the money and dealing with the grief that come with it or determinedly acting like independent adults. I suspect he won't like it so you'll need to avoid telling him anything that suggests you might need money. If it's unavoidable then it's best to tell him after you've already paid for whatever it is and briskly change the subject.

DownTownAbbey · 19/08/2017 12:13

You sound very young. This is one of those life lessons you learn along the way.

I'm sorry to say that you have plenty of proof that FIL's financial help ALWAYS comes with strings. You either need to learn how to refuse him or how to accept and put up with the consequences. You won't be able to do both. He enjoys the power trip too much.

Zaphodsotherhead · 19/08/2017 12:17

I know it's hard. I know you keep hoping he will improve.

But he really won't. He sees giving you money as buying your attention, and that it gives him the right to dictate (which it really doesn't). You HAVE to stop taking his money, however much you feel it will affect your relationship - after all, if he really does want a relationship with you both, he will stop offering when you say 'no, dad, honestly, we're fine'.

And stop telling him things. I've not really any idea why two grown adults have to ring their parents because they crash a car...

shivermytimbers · 19/08/2017 12:21

Stop accepting money from him. You don't have to do it particularly gently. Just say "No thanks".
If you can't live your lives without his financial help, you need to reorganize your finances (spend less or earn more).
I know that sounds glib but I'm speaking from the experience of years of earning very little and having to support a family on a very tight budget.