Hooked--Narcissist/socio/pathological liar *HELP*

[Lipsy21]

Hi all,
sorry for the length of this
I am feeling very emotionally broken at the moment. Please don't give me tellings off or tell me to just get out etc. It's never that easy.

I have to say that pre this person I was always very strong, independant and my previous serious relationship (8yrs) ended due to wanting different things/growing up, ended amicably etc. I had a good childhood and haven't ever tolerated abusive people. Kissed a few frogs but would swiftly never see them again. Until him.
I have wasted the past year on someone who (in first 7 months) was amazing. It was very intense at the start and I thought I'd finally found mr right.
The spanner in the works here is that he does have a neurological illness (ms), he also has episodes of poor mental health. However, I really do think he is sociopathic/narc and he displays a lot of the traits.
I have never felt like this before confused, baffled, hurt etc.
He switches between jekyl and hyde mode a lot now. I feel I am very much in the throws of the devalue stage. Pre 7month mark he was great I always seen this lovely, friendly, supportive nice guy who was coping with a chronic illness (as am I). We don't live together but had planned on doing that soon.
But now 13 months later, I am seeing nastiness, compulsive behaviour, ignoring me for days, picking fights then denying anything has even happened, shutting me out etc. My mental health has dwindled and I'm deeply unhappy. When I confront him I am being told "this is all in your head, you're being overly sensitive".
As soon as I decide "stuff him" and stop contacting him he will be back with the I love you, you're my world, im sorry it's the ms, im depressed etc, please come back.
Its quite scary the change in him and how quick it occurs.

Truthfully, I don't want to be with him anymore. But I don't feel strong, I have never felt weak at the hands of a man...never! Now I've turned into this weak woman who will allow him back in every time he treats me bad. I am unhappy, insecure and feel confused. I have never felt like this in a relationship, nobody has ever treated me this way. even though I feel this way why I am I finding it very difficult to let go and not text him back etc. He's ruining my life. My friends and fam despise him now too .
My family often say "we haven't trusted him from day one he's bad news".

I know another guy (known him since we were kids) who has told me he really wants a relationship with me, I've dated him before and he was lovely. He is very "normal"(whatever that is) which at the moment is so attractive. Yet I still keep crawling back to mr jekyl and hyde who can't build a stable future with me, he has a criminal record (drugs/driving), up to his eyeballs in debt, and now the personality issues.

As soon as we part I find myself worrying he will meet someone else. When I should be thinking good luck to the poor soul who ends up with him. I DONT UNDERSTAND MYSELF. I am clearly in love with him but I don't want to be. I'm losing weight, my illness is flaring and I can't even focus on daily life. Even doing dishes or.washing is a chore I've become despondant. However, if things are good between us im back to my old cheery self.

We are polar opposites, why am i so effed up that I'd want to even be with someone like this? I think I often feel bad for him due to his ms. As I have a chronic degen condition too and know how scary it can be.

Have any of you gone through this behaviour and how do you get rid?
Please tell me your own stories in great lengthy detail I need distraction lol.
Thanks in advance x

Has anyone come out of this type of thing to move on and be normal and happy again? Is it possible

I have just escaped after 24 years and 2 children. When we met in the 90s he was so sweet and attentive and exciting. What followed were years of manipulation and psychological abuse, which I have only recognised in the last 18 months. I knew something was wrong, but he is very clever and would trickle just enough to keep me hooked. He told me I was always angry (and I was - god, who wouldn't be with his behaviour?), that I was the abusive one, he had my oldest son telling me to just leave him alone and let him be (he just wanted to smoke weed, stay up late, sleep late, let me do all the adult stuff, then berate me for getting it wrong). We split up about 10 years ago and I met someone else, cue him charging in on his white steed, being all the things he'd failed to be which caused us to split up, and asking me to marry him (before he wouldn't get married, said what's the point, even though he knew I wanted to), and I believed him. I remember the high I felt - kissing him was like manna from heaven. And so I was under his spell again. Even before the wedding I knew it wasn't right, but I was determined to make it work, thinking if only I could change my behaviour it would be better. He sulked on our wedding day, and on our wedding night lay with his back to me, telling me there'd be no wedding night sex because he was so stressed from the horrendous day where I'd been selfish and it had all been about me. Then on our honeymoon he constantly criticised me for choosing where we went, said it was awful, what kind of hell hole had I taken him to, refused to come out of our room. But still I tried to change myself to make it right!

About 18 months ago I was reading something on MN and a poster mentioned reading up on the Narcissistic Relationship Cycle. It blew my mind, and that was the beginning of the end for him and me. The first attempt to disengage had him starving himself and refusing to get out of bed, so I relented. Last Christmas he threw his toys out of the pram about the lack of 'decent' presents I'd bought him. I asked for a divorce in January. Since then he go the sack from his 16 year job and I thought had a complete nervous breakdown. I might have relented yet again, but he started picking on our older son massively. I also found Women's Aid and did the Freedom Programme and am having some trauma counselling through them. I cannot praise them enough, and they have got me through the most horrendous 7 months of my (and my children's) life. I am also reading Why Does He Do That, and it is a brilliant book. So much of it resonates!

Until 3 weeks ago he was refusing to move out. Then I found out the real reason for the triple-fold increase in his abusive behaviour. He'd been sending our son to buy class A drugs and giving some to him for months. Final straw, and despite how depressed and non functional he'd been acting, he left straight away to save his own disgusting hide when I threatened him with the police and social services. I hate him to the very core of my being, and see him completely for what he is. When he could no longer affect me directly he turned on our son and tried to suck him dry instead.

Run screaming for the hills while you still can.

Jeez purple there are no words!
user1499 I haven't had contact with mine for months, I'm happy BUT I tried to date. All was fine until the guy came to my home and I became so anxious. I wasn't relaxed until he'd left. I'm not ready to let another in my environment, hopefully I will be one day

Thanks rockabilly. I am surprisingly ok (for now! His name is still on the mortgage, and there's still the divorce to finalise and the consent order to sort out so I can get him off the mortgage, so this isn't yet over).

User1499 - I am abso-bloody-lutely determined to never let another narc and/or abusive man anywhere near me (I may be seeing red flags where there are only minor niggles in future though!) They can smell the empathy though, and I think that's the danger, so I know I need to toughen up. I'd say definitely go and read up as much as you can so you are better armed to recognise their tactics.

@Mrsjohnmurphy "The first time he allowed me to visit his house, he had a book by machiavelli" wow that would seriously worry me... My narc was a great fan of Stalin (that this didn't set off any alarm bells shocks me today) as well as misogynistic and cruel TV shows. He also had pictures of crying or suffering women, weapons or weird body parts all over his walls, all of this was just be accepted as his refined taste in modern art. When I think of it now, very telling.

When I'm reading on everyone's stories - I don't think all these guys are narcissistically, probably more like socio or psychopaths (especially those getting free accommodation or things out of people by selling some sob stories.)

Has anyone come out of this type of thing to move on and be normal and happy again? Is it possible?

Yup! well normal is still up for debate, but there is only SO much hope anyone can have

My ex left in 2009, I spent about 18m putting myself back together, did the freedom programme (in person) did private therapy and also joined a local DV charity therapy group. I read books, posted on MN, and FB and worked REALLY hard to get myself back, better and stronger.

I've fought the agoraphobia my experiences left me with , and although I still have my moments, my life is poles apart from where it was.

best news? Eventually, after 5 years of on and off dabbling in online dating, when I was on the point of giving up the search I have met the most amazing man who has changed my life. I've changed his too though so it's a fair trade.

There IS hope. We are not confined to these dreadful people, or those pitiful lives. We can choose to be happy, either alone or with others.

it does take work, it takes trial and error, it takes tears of hurt and frustration. It's a long and twisty road, not a race track.

stay focused on the destination and pay attention to the scenery, we have a long way to go to get back to us, but it's the best journey you will ever take.

There are 2 sides to LTB.

There is the side you are at OP, staring at the huge tidal wave of fear thinking it is the biggest thing you have ever seen in your life. its terrifying.

Yep, it's hard, it's gruelling, but know that on the other side of this wave is everything you need.

You have to let the wave break. You have to LTB. Let the wave break over you and then when you come up for air on the otherside, you will be free.

You will look back on that tidal wave and see how little it really was.

You will be at the beginning of the rest of your journey, but you will not have an anchor around your legs trying to drown you.

when we let go of these people we see how sad and pathetic they really are. we start to see how stupid we were to have them in our lives too, but that passes. then we see the us that needs the love and sympathy.

User149, yes you will, you have to be strong, abolish any notion the Narc is normal, they are not. Move away if you can, Do not contact, once out of his grasp, your true self will come back, they control every fibre of your being from making out that its all your fault to convincing you no one will love you...
So proud of you OP, and all the others who have suffered at the hands of a narcissist .

@hissy thank you, you have so many good points there to follow suit by! @Aunsallylovesworzel -- you too!!! thank you.

@relevante - I definitely believe mine is sociopath/psychopath!

Well unfortunately I caved on the no contact today has I woke up to 3 messages practically begging for my attention. I woke up feeling drained and angry from everything. So I ended up sending him a plethora of abuse today. I think I needed to get it all out. It wasn't threats or anything but literally a complete character assassination and told him that I basically think some of his behavior traits can be likened to the nazis! I really went to town on him.
The one thing that does make me wonder about him being a socio, is that he admits to it all. He admits that his behavior is warped, crazy and emotionally abusive and he often apologizes for the behavior aswell. When you read about the stereotypical socios they tend to not admit to their behaviour etc and completely gaslight and deny.
He is a dangerous person anyway whatever the label it is for him.
I actually hope he has blocked me now! I feel SOOOO angry with him now. I am not scared of him physically I am more scared of him emotionally. I honestly feel that way where I would love to go and punch him. That sounds crazy and out of character for me but I suppose it is part of the grieving process.
I just hope in a months time he is out of my system and I feel better.

A day at a time Lipsy, you will feel better and get back to your normal self, do not knock yourself out if you cave, he will lose interest , trust me , you are doing the right thing .

Another thing that i think with these parasites of society, is that you can never relate to them on a moral, adult or compassionate level. Something in their brain is missing to actually see that their behaviours are so wrong and damaging.

@Lipsy21 Maybe he acknowledges the behaviour because he figures that's the best strategy with you - perhaps you'd call him out straight away if he was gaslighting and he knows it? Also with the behaviours being so extreme, it's more difficult to deny. I think gaslighting is most effective for all these minor head games that wear you down over time.

Also so true about not being able to connect with this people on any real level.

Let us know if he responds to your messages btw!

@relevante yes he has just said that he's really sorry for "ruining" the relationship etc. He isn't actively pursuing me anymore.

I do genuinely feel like this is the end completely, I am so disgusted with him.

I had this.

STILL have this. They think they own you, even YEARS later.

Block this creep now. Seriously

I agree with you Hissy. I think it's just another ploy and he will use it as a hook back in. Please be careful Lipsy. You think you're in control, but the only way to really take control is to block and refuse to engage. I've read stuff about narcs not caring if it's good or bad attention from you, as long as they are getting attention, and that's certainly my experience.

@PurpleVitality72

i domy know I think if @Lipsy21 throws enough insults at him he'd eventually fuck right off. One of the key characteristics of narcs is their inability to deal with any criticism. If he keeps on coming back then he's a stalkerish sociopath - psychoanalysis provided courtesy of Relevante MD lol

@relevante that made me chuckle

@purplevitality72 I totally relate with that. I think he possibly does like any form of attention from me.

So after me going batshit today, like full blown character assassination on him. He has messaged tonight how sorry he is, that he knows hes an idiot etc, admits to his behaviour, that he can't cope without me and that it is his MS causing all his mood changes.
I don't want to sound horrible but I honestly am sick of MS being used as the excuse.

Then randomly I get a notification from facebook saying someone tried to access my accout. Hmmm

@relevante that also made me chuckle. I went off and looked up sociopath traits yesterday after your last post. He definitely has quite a few of them. I just know that throwing insults at mine would always give him an inroad to come and say sorry and be all sweet and lure me back in. It's too much of a test of resolve until you're truly in a place to say fuck off and really mean it forever more.

@Lipsy21 the Lundy book and the book you are given on Women's Aid's Freedom Programme both go to great pains to point out that illness, addictions, past abuse - none of it is a cause of abuse. Lots of people have the same issues and aren't abusers. Abusers just are - it's to do with the way they think and their sense of entitlement. The Freedom Programme book is called The Dominator if you wanted to have a look.

Btw I'm not actually an MD- just wanted to put it out there in case anyone was in doubt following my previous highly articulate and ultra eloquent posts (so sorry usually typing this one handed while holding my LO.) The insults strategy worked like a charm for me! ...or perhaps he was just a "nice guy" that everyone considered him to be, and I'm just a crazy bitch. Never mind. But during my relationship with the guy and right after I did read up a lot on narcs, psychos and socios and hence my input.

It's good to have the right idea what are you dealing with as there are different strategies for relationship severance and post recovery. However, in the end the labels are just that, if your gut tells you and repeatedly that something is off, then SOMETHING IS OFF and probably best to run anyway. Someone else might find this guy fantastic or what not, but for you he's just not right, end off.

@Lipsy21 Said previously that she wanted to leave him but didn't like the thought of him with someone else, which I completely sympathise with - but how do you like the thought of yourself being unhappy and anxious for the next however-many years. It's not about him at all, but about how he makes you feel about yourself. Took me a while to internalise this. Also just to add - I read once that the most defining trait of both socio and psychopaths is they try to make you pity them, which sounds a bit like what he's doing.

Either way @PurpleVitality72 you are right, throwing insults shows them you still care, and hence they are likely to try and find their way back in. The cold shoulder is always the harshest and it sounds like the guy deserves that.

Listen to me. Please. This is important.

You still have his poisonous air in your lungs, you can't think straight or see straight just yet. It takes a while for that toxin to leave your system.

ANY RESPONSE TO HIS CONTACT IS FEEDING HIM. He knows he has you still in the palm of his hand, even when you are ranting at him. Some sad sick little part of him will feel elated that he can put a simple word out there and have you ranting for hours.

"LOOK at the power I have over her, just look at what I can do with a simple text"

You are engaging in his little game. STOP IT NOW

Block him on everything you can for now.

Abusive arseholes like him have to pretend to be nice to hook their victims. He has invested a lot of time and effort into pretending to to be a decent human being and it's exhausting to be something you are not.

He WILL try and get you back somehow because the thought of having to put in the same amount of effort to hook someone else to make him feel great is a huge inconvenience.

THIS is why when you do repel them and keep them gone from your life they can turn nasty.

If you want to protect yourself the best way you can, send him a single message - Please don't contact me in any way at all, I do not want any further contact with you.

THEN, if he does try and contact you, you can call the police and they CAN do something about it.

make sure you know that you have to be committed to taking it all the way, get your head around this now and hopefully you won't have to.

@relevante and @hissy thank you! This thread is the only thing that is keeping me going just now. Feel like I've lost my sense of self focusing on this thunder c**t. You will all be completely sick of me.

I have now blocked him. Hopefully I can stick to my guns. Some times I feel so strong and am able to not give in or resist temptation then sometimes I don't feel so strong and feel like reaching out to him!!

But today I did something crazy, stooped to another low level. That has been 2 days of me behaving like a loony now. I have had those suspicions for ages that he has been seeing someone else during the "discards" I experienced. In true socio fashion. But to be honest now I am so paranoid I cannot get the thoughts out my head and it was bothering me. I then thought if he has been, then that will certainly provide me the boot i need to swiftly move on and never look back ((Sad i know)).
So I contacted 2 women on facebook (psycho I know), that I kept on seeing him "loving" their photos and commenting etc.I asked them outright if they have met him or had planned to. I felt like a humiliated fool, both of them were really civil towards me and wrote back something along the lines of they have never met him, they know him from previous jobs etc, one of them is in a relationship, and surprisingly both of them said to me something shallow along the lines of oh you are so stunning you shouldn't be worrying at all about him going near other women! (Don't want that to come across as vain and self absorbed btw). Immediately I just eyerolled, thanked them for being civil with me, then felt like a total tit for actually messaging them. One of them started to be friendly with me and telling me about her gut instincts with her ex and how he was cheating etc. I thought, what have I actually become I am THIRTY years old!!! not 14!!!!!!!!! Really pissed off with myself now.

I am nearly 50, and until fairly recently would still be doing stuff like that. They get into your head and before you know it you're your own worst enemy! My dear friend has been trying to tell me subtly, and at times not so subtly, how much I was being abused for years, but it fell on deaf ears. Be kind to yourself and accept that you are going to slip up. But maintain that no contact, because as soon as you let him back in, even just a little bit, you will be at his mercy again.

@Lipsy21 I know the horrible obsessive compulsive thoughts that lead you down the road of checking on them etc. Don't worry we've all done stupid things like that. I would never ask my exes' FB friends etc due to his absolutely stellar reputation as the number one "professional" and "such a nice guy" but I did go down the line of checking his phone or hacking his Facebook account. He was very meticulous deleting things but slipped a few times, i.e. I found out he was exchanging texts with Thai escorts and setting up meetups (these, according to his later explanations, never actually happened he just "liked to message them for a thrill" - yeah, ok.)

They get us to a state when we think they are so appealing to the opposite sex they have tons of choice and no one is able to resist them, when in fact I think it's rarely the case (like my guy - had to text escorts to get any lol pathetic.com ).

I don't know if this will help but in my past experience in this kind of situation where a relationship or man feels almost like an addiction it is the blowing hot and cold, cruel then kind, pushing you away then chasing you down behaviour that is in some way triggering. It makes us feel like we are at fault and that if we could only solve the problem we can make everything good. In effect it is the emotional stimulation from all the drama that has us hooked.

Looking back relationships that ran their course and came to a natural end or never got off the ground don't haunt me it's the ones that were drama filled, full of does he or doesn't he that still can get to me. It's not about the men it's the dynamic or behaviour pattern that triggers me. In my case it played into my low self esteem and insecurities and I felt that if I could make these men love me properly I'd somehow fix myself. This all even though I had a loving, stable background.

Obviously this wasn't the way to fix anything and ultimately relationships shouldn't be that much hard work or so upsetting, sure you need to put in effort to stay connected to each other in a long term relationship but it shouldn't be so much drama and stress, no way.

You know this guy isn't right for you, he isn't what you need now or in the future so let him go and stop prolonging the agony.