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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

This isn't abuse is it?

31 replies

MentalFuzz · 03/08/2017 01:32

Forgive me, I'm quite confused. I'm due to start seeing an iapt therapist tomorrow and I'm trying to get my head straight. I'll try not to make this too long.

I've been with dp for just over eight years now, we have two dc, 4 and 1.

Gradually over those years I've fallen in to a deep depression. I thought it was the miscarriages. I've stopped going out, I have no friends. No life apart from at home really. I have hfa and dp is my carer.

Recently the anxiety and depression have gotten really bad, which is why I will now be seeing an Iapt therapist after having an assessment there.

But about a week and a half ago I split up with my partner for four days.

The depression and anxiety was gone, like magic, just gone. My family started coming around and my mum told me she thought he was emotionally abusive and gave me a book to read (why does he do that - angry and controlling men)

She said she was too weak to leave my dad (an angry bully - though he has mellowed out a bit in his old age) and was so happy for me.

Dp kept calling up and crying. Dad kept asking when he was coming back and I caved.

Now that sick right feeling in my stomach is back again. I'd gotten used to it but now I hate it.

Here's the thing though. Dp doesn't shout or scream anymore. He is very calm and loving and loves the children. He does his share of the domestic work and does lots of little nice things for me.

But I know (after finally finishing that book this week) that some things he has done in the past and still does aren't right.

It started when I was first pregnant with dd about four/not quite five years ago.

It was Christmas and we were at his sisters house. I was heavily pregnant. Dp had had a lot to drink and seemed to get very quiet later on in the evening. I could tell something was wrong.

When were driving home he started screaming, saying that I was a dirty slut and I had been giving his sisters boyfriend a blowjob in their bathroom. He was pushing at me and I was driving. It terrified me (my previous relationship had been physically abusive - dp was the 'prince charming' who had helped me through it as we were friends at the time)

Shortly after Dd was born he started getting very drunk most nights. I'd had a csection and couldn't yet carry her upstairs comfortably (steep stairs) I had to though as he would get angry if I asked him to help and swear at me plus I wouldn't want him carrying her when he was in that state

He ranted at me in front of her when she was about one and a half, and she started crying. He had been drinking again and had found some of his own empty cans where he had stuffed them down the side of the bed. He said they weren't his and I had had half the neighbourhood in there (we are never apart, I don't think he even believed what he was shouting about)

But things have been a lot better the last two years. He wasn't drinking and the obvious shouting stopped.

Some things are still making me feel like there is a dark cloud above my head all the time though. But most days I can't tell if it's all in my head or not. These are what I can't decide is abusive or just normal.

He is jealous. He says any man that wants to talk to me probably wants to sleep with me. If anyone tries to add me on social media or talks to me he hits the roof and starts 'interrogating' me.

Interrogate sounds like such a stong word...but it's how I feel when he's done questioning me. I get it after most phone calls, doctors appointments etc.

I can never seem to leave the house without him. Sometimes it seems easier to just nip out on my own to say walk the dog or go to the shop. But he makes me feel like I'm trying to abandon him and the children if I ever try to do that.

He says he'd have no life or reason to live if we split. That makes me nervous for some reason.

I've tried to talk with him about this. I thought I'd be able to as he's always very reasonable now. But I tried earlier and it's just left me more confused than ever.

Every single thought or feeling I have it turns out he's been having about me. He says I'm the abusive one. He's fast asleep and I'm still up racking my brains trying to figure out if I am or not.

I have been more angry lately. He was very sarcastic to our four year old daughter (she has autism) when she tripped up earlier and I saw red. I asked him to join me in the garden then had a go at him and shouted saying he shouldn't talk like that to her.

He apologised and said he was wrong and now I feel like maybe I am a nutcase Sad

I understand on paper maybe it looks obvious but you are only getting my side of the story. I know he'd say different and I can't figure out if it me or not.

I love him, he is so lovely sometimes. It breaks my heart and makes me feel so guilty that I felt so free when he was gone.

I don't know what to do.

OP posts:
HirplesWithHaggis · 03/08/2017 01:47

I cannot tell you how many women I've read here tell how after breaking up with an abusive partner they no longer need to be medicated for depression, to sleep, to wake, to function. You've had a taste of that.

Yes, he's abusive, emotionally. He doesn't need to yell at you as much as he used to, because you've learned to walk on eggshells round him, so you don't set him off. He's already threatening suicide should you leave, and he's gaslighting you - telling you lies, making you doubt yourself, your feelings, your behaviour.

From the way you write, I'm pretty sure you don't want your dc to be "trained" the way he's trained you.

They're always lovely in some way, because no-one is a total bastard (well, very few) and if he'd been such a shit from the word go, you'd never have settled with him, and had his dc, would you? It's so, so common for the abuse to ramp up when you're pregnant/newly delivered. When you're at your most vulnerable.

I think you know what to do. Good luck.

WinnieFosterTether · 03/08/2017 01:47

You do know what to do. You're just not sure if you're strong enough to do it. You need to leave him. And the therapist will hopefully help you find the strength.
Being confused and down, is the result of living with an abuser. They are nice sometimes. Otherwise they would never be able to reel you in or keep you there.
Your DM sounds like a great support. Ask her for help. Flowers

Cocklodger · 03/08/2017 01:47

I didn't want to read and run but I can't answer each point,
Yes everything you list is abusive.
I'll explain as best I can.
He stops you from talking to males let alone having male friends - that's not only "jealous" (which is a natural emotion) it's controlling.
Tenner bet says if you've ever challenged it (or if you do in future) he'll say "but why do you want to talk to men? So you can shag them?"
He doesn't have the right to access your devices or know who you are texting or calling, or why.

He doesn't respect you. Dirty slut is a horrible thing to call anyone let alone your faithful partner!

He doesn't take responsibility for anything. Eg blaming you having an imaginary affair instead of his drinking. Did you carefully explain that if he's imagining strange men leaving cans everywhere perhaps he should see a doctor or leave? I would've

You know this isn't right.
Your discomfort at him saying he couldn't live without you is your mind telling you he's manipulating you. He's tricking (term is gaslighting) you into thinking you're the problem.
Two pieces of advice and a thought provoking question I can give you.

  1. You are not the problem.
  2. Leave this man before he damages you and your children further.
  3. If I flip everything I've said on its head and we'll say you are the problem (you're not, but let's say we are) surely it's better you split up in that case anyway?
Next time he says you're abusive, show him the door. He wouldn't want to stay with an abuser, would he?
MentalFuzz · 03/08/2017 02:04

Thank you, I think I do know something is wrong. It's just so hard to think straight. A couple of times I've thought no I'm definitely going to split now but then he is super nice...

Ds (1) wouldn't stop hugging him when he came back. It made me feel awful and if I'm honest has stuck in my head too.

One minute I'm 100% sure that it's going to best for them if I end this but then I start really doubting myself. Is it really that bad? How will I feel about him having access to them without me there to help them? (his family are all drunks and can be very emotionally manipulative, that would be where he was living)

I know they are just excuses. But they worry me all the same.

He does go through my phone, emails etc.

I don't know why, I've never done anything wrong in that regard. I don't even talk to anyone else.

OP posts:
HirplesWithHaggis · 03/08/2017 02:19

He'll sense you backing off, and make nice to stop you.

It's not going to be easy to leave. There's all the practical stuff to sort (who owns/rents your home, will he go quietly if you ask or will you have to uproot the kids, the money situation) and he'll pull every emotional lever he has. He'll cry, he'll promise to be better, threaten suicide, and when none of that works, he'll turn nasty. Maybe not physical, but the name calling will increase and he'll slander you to all and sundry. You've already seen this.

You can prepare for this. You don't need to split tomorrow, you can take time to plan. But do, please, start making those plans.

MentalFuzz · 03/08/2017 02:24

Something I can be grateful for is that the house is in my name only.

He's been pressing for more 'commitment' since he came back, saying he really wants to get married right now and we can do it cheap etc...when he wasn't all that bothered before.

I may be confused right now but I'm not that stupid.

He swore we would go to relationship counselling etc when he first came back, shrugging it off now though.

OP posts:
thestamp · 03/08/2017 02:32

Oh my god op.

I've so been there. The jealous rants that make no sense. The shittiness and turning things around on you. It kills you slowly. I felt I was being strangled.

He has trained you and that's why he's been calm lately. Again I've been there. When I was pregnant and bf we were so happy. Once I weaned and was back at work... The same again but worse. And worse. And worse.

I beg you to leave. You deserve so much better. And so much more x

Glastokitty · 03/08/2017 03:53

He sounds absolutely awful and yes of course this is abuse. I'm so glad the house is yours, please get rid of him for your sake and your childrens' sake. You only get one life, don't waste it with this horrible man.

Anniegetyourgun · 03/08/2017 05:37

He's not your carer, he's your jailer. Interesting you say it was your Dad who pushed you into taking your partner back - the Dad you describe as an angry bully. No doubt he feels this is the right way for women to be treated as that is how he's treated your Mum for decades. This doesn't make him a very good source of relationship advice.

Anniegetyourgun · 03/08/2017 05:37

Oh, and... fgs don't marry him!

Shoxfordian · 03/08/2017 05:41

This is an emotionally abusive relationship OP

Think of how good you felt when you left him before; you could feel like that all the time

I agree with others that you should leave him.

pinkdelight · 03/08/2017 09:03

So agree with annie that this is your Dad pushing the cycle of abuse to continue. Don't let it. Your mum already admires how you've broken the pattern she got stuck in. Get out now and don't let your DC grow up with his abuse of you. Thank god the house is yours and don't dream of marrying him or you'll lose that security. Stay strong. However fuzzy your head understandably feels, it is very clearly abuse, you know it, and you know what to do.

HirplesWithHaggis · 03/08/2017 11:17

Yeah, more "committment"/marriage would make you even more vulnerable and give him rights to your home, you're wise to put a stop to that idea! Hope it all goes well with your therapist today.

MentalFuzz · 03/08/2017 11:53

Thanks I am seeing her later on.

Dp has tried talking to me today about how he feels we don't listen to each other (I think I do a lot of listening about how he feels)

I said I felt like anytime I tried to raise anything he instantly starts going on about how he feels exactly the same way as me, or how I have wronged him exactly the same way as I am describing. It's so frustrating, and he's so reasonable and calm about it.

I'm being quiet but it feels as if I'm screaming inside ( I know that's overdramatic but I can't think of any other way to describe this sensation)

OP posts:
MidnightVelvetthe7th · 03/08/2017 12:03

You know that 4 days, if you left him you would feel like that all the time.

Yes he's an abusive prick & I agree with what everyone else is saying, you also know it too if you are becoming angrier & that's a good thing.

I'm surprised he's going along with the therapy though, presumably the talk this morning about not listening to each other was to prep you to take the blame or to make him seem reasonable when you're discussing him in your session.

If he senses you slipping away from under his control he might be as nice as pie to get you back, he will promise you the earth, then once you're back he will punish you properly for daring to think you could ever leave him. His abuse will escalate, I've been there. Your boundaries are already skewed. Leave him, darling Brew

HeavenlyEyes · 03/08/2017 12:12

Yes he is abusive - your Mum is right and knows exactly what he is like. Please call Women's Aid, get on the Freedom Programme, get counselling alone for you. But please - for the love of all that is holy - get rid of this awful man. He bullies and then is nice - cycle of abuse. Typical. And he projects onto you too, bet there is gaslighting also.

FuckYouLinda · 03/08/2017 12:23

Yes he's abusive.

So he's moved back in since a week or so ago? Then you just say you tried it and it's not working out. Ask him to leave and if he gets aggressive then call the police.

Could you chat with someone in Women's Aid?

bibliomania · 03/08/2017 12:24

Would you like your dd to have a relationship like this? If not, then you shouldn't be modelling it for her.

I'm delighted you're going to therapy - I hope you get a good therapist who can support you in facing the truth that you're just starting to acknowledge. It was the major stepping-stone in helping me get out of my abusive marriage.

To answer Midnight's point about why he is going along with the therapy, my then H was delighted as it fit the narrative that I was the one who was wrong and needed to be fixed.

MentalFuzz · 03/08/2017 13:23

It's hard, I think he knows I'm pulling away.

He keeps reading out articles he's happened to find on his phone. On outcomes for children when parents split up, in particular on sons who go off the rails because they don't live with their father.

He knows that is a sore spot as it upset me and made me feel guilty when ds wouldn't stop hugging him when he came back.

I'm parked up outside the iapt building now. Appointment isn't for half an hour but I lied so I could just have a few minutes to myself before going out in.

Hopefully the therapy helps, I still feel very fuzzy.

OP posts:
bibliomania · 03/08/2017 14:08

You're doing the right thing and you have a safe space to work it through.

zippey · 03/08/2017 17:42

Maybe you and your mum can leave your abusive partners together and provide support for one another.

LadyB49 · 03/08/2017 21:32

OMG he's suggesting you get married.
You own your own house!!
Once married he could eventually have 'rights' regarding your house.

Charley50 · 03/08/2017 23:00

Actually when children grow up in an emotionally abusive atmosphere like yours are, that is far more damaging. Do your research. My siblings and I are damaged goods from growing up in a household just like yours with jealous controlling dad, abusing mum and us.

My mum left him, went 300 miles away, but went back to a further 20 years of abuse. One of the reasons she gave was that I missed him. I was one year old, FFS, just like your DS now. I didn't know any better! You do! Just tell him to fuck off out of your life, and feel that depression disappear for good.

Charley50 · 03/08/2017 23:06

Interrogate is the right word. It's exactly what my dad did to my mum. Regularly. For hours on end. Accused her of fucking his brother in law, the man in the shop, just everyone. Called her a 'dirty tramp' in front of us children. It went on and on. The impact on us all has been never endingly negative.

ReanimatedSGB · 03/08/2017 23:15

Your DC hugging him will be because they are scared. Because he is emotionally abusing them, as well.
This man is a piece of shit and you need to get him out of all your lives, as much as possible. have a word with Women's Aid, make plans (carefully). You may need to insist on supervised contact only as men as controlling as this can be a danger to the DC.