Marriage, FWB, and a moral dilemma

[MadMax79]

Asking for a friend, of course. :)

TL;DR: My wife and I agreed to convert our relationship into a friends-with-benefits arrangement and are struggling to find the right balance between continuing with the arrangement versus stopping it. Help!

The long story:

Let's say my wife of 17 years dumped me because she felt bored in the relationship, as in not having felt any love and passion any more for a considerable amount of time. She felt constrained by having to be together with me. I was devastated, but on the next day, I came up with an idea.

I asked her if she would be willing to convert this into a friends-with-benefits arrangement instead of breaking up completely in order to explore whether we were just in need of feeling free again, kind of as a last resort. That way, we could possibly get together again if the situation changed -- or not, if it turned out we were actually done with each other. This was possible because we don't live in the same city. She agreed. So we agreed mutually that we would not ask or feel obliged to answer any questions about the time not spent together, we would not be together any more, but we would still spend occasional holidays together every few weeks to have sex and explore if we still liked each other, and we would not to tell anyone about this arrangement or experiment.

I suggested this arrangement for three reasons: 1. I still loved her and wanted to be with her, and this was the only chance of getting her back. I wouldn't want to give up such a long marriage lightly. 2. I, too, felt the need to be free and sleep with other women, but I would have never done it without permission. 3. We wouldn't tell anyone because we knew this would be socially frowned upon, and people would either try to convince us to get back together or split up completely.

While still sad, I also quickly became excited and thought about the new possibilities. After all, I hadn't touched anyone else for more than 17 years. I quickly started sleeping with other women and enjoyed it quite a bit (though I have to say that sex with my wife is really good in comparison with my other, new experiences). There were a few one-night-stands and two women with whom I slept about every two weeks. It was fun and easy, and it was clear to everybody involved that this was only for fun. I wasn't so sure about the first one since she actually wasn't really my type. But good enough to make me feel alive. The second one was a few years older and more experienced than me, and we quickly started enjoying each other immensely. She was married, too, and I was her sidekick. I told her I wouldn't assume any responsibility for her marriage, and she said she would find somebody else if I didn't do it. So I went with it. It was clear that this was merely physical and perhaps a bit of a chat afterwards, but nothing more. It got better every time, and there is quite some sympathy now.

At the same time, I could feel that my wife was growing closer to me again. We laughed more together on the phone. Our holidays were full of enjoyable experiences that brought us closer together. It felt almost like being together again. As per the arrangement, I did not tell her anything and was not expecting her to tell me anything. I'm quite good at keeping things separate. After all, it was irrelevant to what we had. I enjoyed this development but was still cautious.

At some point she revealed to me that she had taken a look at the flesh market and hadn't seen anything that was worth pursuing. According to her, there were only idiots and losers, which was increasing my market value in a way. I wasn't sure if that was a compliment or not. I felt a bit bad that I was sleeping with others and she wasn't. She really shouldn't have told me. Anyway, I took comfort in the fact that she could have done it, and it was her own fault if she didn't.

After a while, she asked me, half jokingly, if we should move together. I spat out my water and told her that this was hardly possible since we were technically separated. I asked her if she still wanted to be separated or if she had changed her mind. She said she wasn't sure and asked me what I wanted. I said I'd rather keep it separate for now because being together at this point would only lead us back to where we started. I told her we should rather continue with the arrangement for a bit in order not to kill this tiny but growing little flower before it was stable enough to be re-potted. She agreed, but then asked me if I was only saying this because I had somebody lined up I was eager to fuck in the next month but hadn't got the chance yet. I truthfully denied that, but I did get a bit of a bad conscience because I did not want to sleep with other women if she didn't approve of me doing it. So I decided to end all my extramarital activities in order not to cheat on her. After all, I wanted to be with her, and I didn't want to jeopardise that.

As a consequence, I called the first of my two fuck buddies immediately and told her that I wouldn't be able to see her any more because of these recent developments. She was a bit disappointed but said I was making the right decision. But then I thought about stopping that second, much more enjoyable relationship as well, and something told me that this would be the wrong decision. So I held back and started thinking about it some more.

On the same evening, my wife called me again and said she felt very lonely, whether I was with her or not. She wanted to fall in love again, if possible with me, if not perhaps with somebody else, but she just couldn't enforce it. That kind of hurt me as I had previously thought we were on a good path. She said we were, but it still didn't feel perfect. Well, I was glad I hadn't cancelled that other relationship yet.

Now I am in this dilemma, or actually, two trade-offs. The first is a rational dilemma: should I end my casual relationship, which I enjoy quite a bit, for the uncertain prospects of getting back together with my wife? The second one is a moral dilemma: should I end my casual relationship because I promised my wife I wouldn't want to extend the separation just to get the opportunity to fuck somebody I had been trying to crack up? Technically, that's not the case, but I'm not sure if this would also extend to the case where I have already been sleeping with somebody and would want to extend that beyond the current point. Then again, she doesn't seem to be able to make up her mind. I'd like to support her with that, but I'm afraid I would only re-instate the original situation if I gave in and fully belonged to her again. Something makes me think that I shouldn't even give her the feeling that I was not sleeping with anybody. Perhaps it would be even better to induce some jealousy such that she makes up her mind and wants to keep me. Of what use is an arrangement like that, after all, if it remains inconsequential to our mutual perceptions?

Any thoughts on how to proceed?

Sit down and think of what YOU REALLY want without considering what others want from you.
If you want your wife back, immediately tell the other woman. And focus only on your wife to win her back.
If you like your freedom please don't string your wife along any longer.
She obviously feels insecure and knows you have other interests now.

To me it sounds like you don't want your wife back at all. If you truly did from the start you wouldn't have slept with anyone else and enjoyed it as much.

I think you've made your decision and your wife senses it. Please don't string her along and hurt her even more.

OK, here is what I really want: if possible, a commitment from her that she wants to be with me without any doubt. In that case, I'd drop all other activities immediately. If not possible, I'd rather have sex with somebody else than being alone. Up to now, she has decided to be in that second category, unfortunately.

'I don't particularly want him but I don't want anyone else to have him either' is driving her supposed change of heart and you've gotten a taste for having relationships/ shags outside of your marriage and would ideally prefer the status quo to continue.

You and your wife are no longer on the same page and haven't been for some time and the 'open marriage' which was sought out of desperation and curiosity have only introduced new differences. You are both hesitant about committing to each other because deep down, you don't want to commit to a monogamous relationship with each other.

There is no ethical dilemma here, you are either truthful with each other as well as yourselves, or not. You both want your cake but aren't keen on the other person eating theirs. It's time to let each other go and get used to the idea of not having your marriage as a safety net.

I recon you need some time on your own without a partner or fickbuddy. You really don't know your own mind and seem to assume it has to be one or the other.

Also you really should have told your wife you were having casual sex with another woman. Honesty and trust is everything if you truest want the relationship to go somewhere. . She assumes you haven't been shagging about and don't plan to. Which is untrue. If she finds out at a later date, your dishonesty will be a problem

i hope you've rubbered up, OP. if not then your wife should know you are fucking around so she can have STI checks.

Don't mess around with making your wife jealous, it's childish, it's cruel and it's entirely self-defeating. You want her to come back to you because she wants to be with you, not because she's reclaiming her property from someone else.

That being said, I think you need to talk to your wife properly. I don't think you've lied to her, you've sat squarely within your agreed rules, but if you don't communicate then your relationship is over anyway. Tell her that your ultimate goal is to be together again (but that you're not yet ready to move back in together because the relationship is still too fragile), then ask her what is her ultimate goal. If her answer is to just not be alone then you are just not on the same page anymore and I think you need to accept that. If she wants the same as you then I'd end the other Fwb relationship and focus on working things through with your wife. You've played the field a little and if you still think your wife is the one for you, then there's no need to continue to do so whilst you try to mend things. Notwithstanding your arrangement, if you and your wife were to agree that you're starting to be a couple again, then fwb would feel like cheating to me. Even if she agreed with it, it wouldn't feel like your wife was your real focus.

Good luck.

I think it's fine that you've slept with other women while not in a relationship with your wife but it's not fine to be dishonest.

Tell her you have been sleeping with other women but you'd happily give them up for a steady relationship with her.

Agree with Rhubarb.

When she knows the truth, it should cement her ideas about you. She will either want you back or she won't.

I've a feeling she won't, as you have lied, but you need the truth from each other.

I find this all so odd.
If DH and I had a trial separation with hopes of reconciling. The last thing on my mind would be sleeping with someone else and i would be gutted if my Husband did.

At the minute you're in a winning position so you feel.
More than likely you will get back with your wife and you have got your buddies on the go to past the time.
You are quite happy how you are.

When you said you're glad you didn't tell number 2 was telling for me, you was more relieved you haven't lost your shag thing rather than being upset or confused at what your wife is saying.

I'm just hoping you don't string your wife along because by the sounds of it you are loving life at the minute and enjoying throwing your Willy around.

Your choices seem based on quick sexual gratification. Think long term. Have some time alone. Reflect on things in a grown up fashion rather then shallowly lurching from one thing to another

Thanks for the numerous helpful replies. I'll try to reply to some of the things you mentioned below.

'I don't particularly want him but I don't want anyone else to have him either' is driving her supposed change of heart.

This is an interesting point, and I need to think about this. Why is this the case? It was her who insisted on rule number 1, which is not asking each other any question and giving no answers. She also mentioned at some earlier point before making that arrangement that I shouldn't tell her if I ever cheated on her. So she doesn't seem to want to know about anything that might be going on.

You and your wife are no longer on the same page and haven't been for some time and the 'open marriage' which was sought out of desperation and curiosity have only introduced new differences. You are both hesitant about committing to each other because deep down, you don't want to commit to a monogamous relationship with each other.

Well, it hasn't really introduced new differences for her because she doesn't know (and didn't want to know) about any of my activities. As far as I am concerned, I could end it any time if I had a good reason to. It's not like I'm sex-addicted or in love with the fling. What I really want is a clear signal of commitment and I'll go back to being exclusive immediately. I've had enough experiences to go monogamous again if it's worth it. I just don't know if it is.

There is no ethical dilemma here, you are either truthful with each other as well as yourselves, or not.

Here is the thing: she said originally that she didn't want to know about anything. If I tell her now, that might drive her nuts and she would be rightfully pissed that I didn't stick to the agreement. The dilemma I was referring to was the question of whether she would be rightfully pissed if I continued this or not. After all, she didn't want to know. But she also doesn't fully commit, apparently. My preference order is this: 1. she commits, and I commit > 2. she doesn't commit, and I don't commit and continue my sidekick > 3. she commits and I don't commit and continue > she doesn't commit while I do and end my sidekick, which would really make me the loser here. The question is: how do we get from 2 to 1? Probably not by breaking the agreement and being truthful, right?

You both want your cake but aren't keen on the other person eating theirs.

As far as I am concerned, I'd be happy for her to eat cake elsewhere if that was what she craved and what satisfied her curiosity. She may not be keen on me eating my cake, but there would be an easy way for her to stop me from eating my cake. If she commits, I'll commit. We are not in this situation because I wanted to break free; she wanted to be free again in the first place.

It's time to let each other go and get used to the idea of not having your marriage as a safety net.

I can see the point of just cutting each other loose. But maybe that would be the biggest mistake, and we don't want to regret it for the rest of our lives. There is a reason we got married, and both of us can still see that very clearly. She's the one. The reason I'm having sex elsewhere is because I can't get her and still want to gain some new experiences and gratification. I would just hope she could come to her senses and tell me I was all she wanted, then she'd make me very happy.

I recon you need some time on your own without a partner or fickbuddy. You really don't know your own mind and seem to assume it has to be one or the other.

That's quite right: I don't know my own mind, hence the questions here. Yes, I assume that being exclusively with my wife is better than being with somebody else, and being with somebody else is better than being alone. This is not about being alone per se, though, because I only see the fuck buddy for an hour or two every two weeks and there is hardly any communication between the meetings. So that is actually almost like being alone.

Also you really should have told your wife you were having casual sex with another woman. Honesty and trust is everything if you truest want the relationship to go somewhere.

That's one of the things I'm struggling with right now. She said first that she wouldn't want to know. If I break that rule at this point, I might really piss her off, and for no good reason. It's not like I was being dishonest. We made some rules, and breaking them might also break the trust between us. It may sound weird, but we deeply trust each other, and that's the only reason we can have such an agreement in the first place. She knows I wouldn't prioritise somebody else over her or show deep affection to somebody else if I had to choose, for example. I don't want to jeopardise this trust by breaking an arrangement she agreed to, and partly even suggested. The question is rather if I would regret it later if I continued now, knowing that she is kind of undecided about what she wants. If I continue and don't tell her and we get back together at some point and I end it before that happens but after now, would that be considered cheating by her if she knew? Or am I right in keeping things separate, given that she also signalled to me that she might fall in love with somebody else if the right person showed up? After all, if she sent me a clearer commitment signal, I would even want to end any extramarital activities immediately. To be clear: I talk to her a lot (just not about those activities), and I try to sort things out with her and be there when she needs me.

She assumes you haven't been shagging about and don't plan to. Which is untrue. If she finds out at a later date, your dishonesty will be a problem

It's not exactly dishonesty. I thought about telling her, but that would break our agreement and possibly our trust. She deliberately didn't want to know, and I'm not sure if she would want to know now. But since she doesn't ask, I'm not telling her.

i hope you've rubbered up, OP. if not then your wife should know you are fucking around so she can have STI checks.

That's not a big issue. I take regular tests and I am cautious as to who I sleep with.

Don't mess around with making your wife jealous, it's childish, it's cruel and it's entirely self-defeating. You want her to come back to you because she wants to be with you, not because she's reclaiming her property from someone else.

That's good advice. Thanks a lot. You are probably right that making her jealous would not bring her back. That's probably why I haven't revealed what I've been doing during our time off. And comparing your advice with somebody else's advice before that I should be completely honest, I think not revealing it and sticking to the agreement would be the better option because I wouldn't make her jealous that way. I guess she said she didn't want to know in the first place because she didn't want jealousy to creep in.

That being said, I think you need to talk to your wife properly. I don't think you've lied to her, you've sat squarely within your agreed rules, but if you don't communicate then your relationship is over anyway. Tell her that your ultimate goal is to be together again (but that you're not yet ready to move back in together because the relationship is still too fragile), then ask her what is her ultimate goal.

That's exactly what my current strategy is. I told her exactly that and asked her about her goals. All she says is she wants to be happy again and not feel lonely. Sometimes she sounds very positive about us, sometimes less so, depending on her mood. I communicate with her a lot and really want to find out what she wants and try to give her some positive feedback about the prospects of being together again. She knows I want to be with her ultimately. But I suspect she doesn't know if she can commit...

If her answer is to just not be alone then you are just not on the same page anymore and I think you need to accept that.

Yeah, she sometimes says that and sometimes says that she wants to be with me and even move together. I'd accept it if she sent a clear signal. As it stands, I'm trying to win her back. But I don't want to be that loser guy who desperately fights for her, lives a celibate life, and in the end she takes the next best guy around the corner and is gone for good, all for nothing. Since she is sending those mixed signals, I respond to them by also having a dual strategy of trying to win her back but also continuing within the bounds of our agreement as long as I don't get that kind of commitment. It's the only way I can avoid feeling like a complete loser.

If she wants the same as you then I'd end the other Fwb relationship and focus on working things through with your wife.

That's exactly what I want.

You've played the field a little and if you still think your wife is the one for you, then there's no need to continue to do so whilst you try to mend things.

See above. I would feel like a complete loser if I submitted to her and waited for a clearer signal and that signal never came. Better to respond to mixed signals with a mixed strategy if I don't want to end up in self-pity.

Notwithstanding your arrangement, if you and your wife were to agree that you're starting to be a couple again, then fwb would feel like cheating to me.

I agree with that. I would never cheat on her. (Where I define cheating as sleeping with other women without her consent, which I have right now.) And that's what's driving me nuts. Should I even stop completely in the absence of an agreement? Since she asked me whether I only wanted to wait to get another opportunity to fuck somebody, it kind of indicates she could want me to be exclusive. But I'm not sure since she doesn't clearly say either that she wants to stop this arrangement, which she could. And I would certainly stop any activities immediately if she did.

Even if she agreed with it, it wouldn't feel like your wife was your real focus.

When she asked me that question, I realised she did care about those activities to some extent. Not sure what the extent is, though. Perhaps she only started caring after taking a look at the market and realising she likely wouldn't have sex with somebody else? Then again, maybe she does have sex and just doesn't tell me, who knows... I wouldn't really mind. Perhaps it would be better if she did because it would satisfy her need to stray and her curiosity. Anyway, I do agree that my wife was not my main focus for a few weeks. So when she asked that question, I called off all activities but one immediately. I'm now focusing on her and I'm following that signal. I guess those one to two hours every two weeks won't really prevent me from focusing on her. Then again, focusing all my energy on her may be stupid in the absence of the agreement you are mentioning.

Good luck.

Thanks! I really appreciate the feedback!

I think it's fine that you've slept with other women while not in a relationship with your wife but it's not fine to be dishonest.

I agree. But do you think I was dishonest? Or I would be by keeping that one FWB arrangement until she sent a clearer signal and committed?

Tell her you have been sleeping with other women but you'd happily give them up for a steady relationship with her.

That would be against our own mutual rules. Do you think she'd still want to know even though she told me explicitly she wouldn't?

When she knows the truth, it should cement her ideas about you. She will either want you back or she won't. I've a feeling she won't, as you have lied, but you need the truth from each other.

Wait a second, where did I lie? I have never lied to her and wouldn't ever.

I find this all so odd. If DH and I had a trial separation with hopes of reconciling. The last thing on my mind would be sleeping with someone else and i would be gutted if my Husband did.

Well, in our case, the reason for that trial separation was that she wanted to break free. We were under the impression that she only stopped loving me because she felt like being in a cage. If there was no cage and she was free to sleep with other men, date other men, live her own life without ever asking me for my opinion or permission, then she might see the positive aspects of being with me again and she would want to be with me again. That also entails that I should not be clingy and that I would go my own way as well. Since I didn't have a lot of other experiences and I was always afraid that that might backfire at some point in our relationship, I also used this window of opportunity to fix that skeleton in the cupboard as well. I do have hopes of reconciling; I'll stop that immediately if she makes up her mind. What's the point of being trial-separated without gaining other experiences and finding out what one really wants? In my case, sleeping with other women has brought me some reassurance that sex with my wife beats them all and that there is also nobody else I could possibly fall in love with and who could even come close to being in the same street as her in terms of all she is. So I can only say that it worked on my part and I'm honestly hoping that she will gain some external experiences as well and then make up her mind.

At the minute you're in a winning position so you feel. More than likely you will get back with your wife and you have got your buddies on the go to past the time. You are quite happy how you are.

I'm not a cheater, and I believe I have a strong will. The FWB meetings are fun, but I won't continue in the minute I commit to my wife again. If that ever happens, which I really hope.

When you said you're glad you didn't tell number 2 was telling for me, you was more relieved you haven't lost your shag thing rather than being upset or confused at what your wife is saying.

Sorry if I gave you that impression. My first priority is getting her back. Shagging is only the second priority. I feel really bad because I know my wife is suffering from being undecided (that is, I honestly feel bad for her and want to help her), and I also feel really bad because I'm suffering from her indecisiveness. We recently spent a holiday together, and it was really good. I was hoping she'd feel the same way, and while she first told me she was happy, she later told me it still wasn't quite like in the beginning of our relationship. I think what she really wants is the feeling of being freshly in love, but that's something I obviously cannot give her (or anybody could give to anybody else after being together for a long time, simply because honeymoon turns into trust after a while, which is also good, but different). I really hope I can show her that it's impossible to remain in that honeymoon phase forever because that would mean having new partners over and over again. Hmm, looks like I just need to keep the discussion going to change her perspective. Not sure if I can pull that off.

I'm just hoping you don't string your wife along because by the sounds of it you are loving life at the minute and enjoying throwing your Willy around.

I wouldn't unnecessarily string her around. I just want her to make up her mind. I'll cut her loose in the minute she says she doesn't want me any more. She's free to go, but she doesn't go. She's kind of stringing me along, and I'm partly also having sidekicks because I don't want to be in that position.

Your choices seem based on quick sexual gratification. Think long term. Have some time alone. Reflect on things in a grown up fashion rather then shallowly lurching from one thing to another.

Yes, that's right about quick sexual gratification. But there are other factors in there as well (see all of the above). We did have quite some time alone, including a recent two-week holiday, which we enjoyed. I didn't spend a minute thinking about anyone else (well, at least after getting used to her again after a day or so, which is probably normal given the situation). I thought we were on a good way to fix things. Let's see how it goes, though.

Your wife thought she could do better and sadly she hasn't been to. This is her fault, but I thought you'd agreed to an open relationship, so why deny you've been seeing other people.

She's not in love with you, but you're the best option right now.

Sadly, I think there are more good women out there than men, so she's the one who will struggle more to find a good man.

After this agreement So we agreed mutually that we would not ask or feel obliged to answer any questions about the time not spent together, we would not be together any more

She doesn't really have the right to ask.

She must be feeling rather foolish now.

You my dear... Are her plan B.

No offence but it does sound as if she's just settling in having you back because couldn't find anything better ( which is a compliment of sorts). I think you just need to deliver an ultimatum instead of all this dithering. If it is her you want then tell her she has till x date to make her mind up. If she wants to try again then go back to living together. It could fall apart again but at least next time you would know not to hang around waiting.

It sounds like she only wants you because she can't find anyone else.

To SandyY2K:

Your wife thought she could do better and sadly she hasn't been to. This is her fault, but I thought you'd agreed to an open relationship, so why deny you've been seeing other people.

Yeah I know, and it feels quite depressing because she thought she could do better. I guess it's still better than being left for a real other person. :-D At the same time, it makes me want to keep her more because she told me upfront that she wanted to break free rather than just doing it and cheating. That reinforces my feeling that we can deeply trust each other, whatever the outcome. You may be right that this is her fault, but my adventures in the meantime are also my way of balancing the situation more, so I don't feel the need to address reproaches to her. The question is if it stays that way in the long run in case we do get together again...

She's not in love with you, but you're the best option right now.

Yeah, rub it in my face once more. But thanks, it makes the situation quite obvious at least.

Sadly, I think there are more good women out there than men, so she's the one who will struggle more to find a good man.

Well, that's of course good for me. But frankly, I have taken a look around and that has only reinforced my impression that she's a really good woman I want to keep. There are other acceptable options. But I don't want to settle for acceptable if they are still inferior to her. This is probably the point where I should say that the situation is ripping me apart, but I have more rational coping mechanisms than many other people, I guess.

After this agreement 'So we agreed mutually that we would not ask or feel obliged to answer any questions about the time not spent together, we would not be together any more', she doesn't really have the right to ask.

That is indeed a problem. Now we are getting to the core of the dilemma I am facing. Tell her or not tell her... If I do, I break the agreement and risk losing her because that's putting her off; I would also likely lose the permission of continuing because she might see an imbalance there, if she wants to continue at all; this would make me want to escape because it would create an imbalance for me since she is not making up her mind. If I don't tell her, I'm still a boring loser whom others don't want; I don't have a good basis for talking things through with her; and I might have a bad conscience continuing.

She must be feeling rather foolish now. You my dear... Are her plan B.

Could be. So what am I to do? Just move on and decide not to be her plan B? I should also add that I indeed neglected her for quite some time by being less outgoing than before, focusing more on career, and gaining some pounds. I started changing those things about half a year before she broke up with me, but apparently it was too late by then. I have continued my self-improvement after the split up, and I am now in better shape than ever. That might even make her feel more foolish. If I was her, I would seriously beg me to come back. But I'll certainly not force her. I think she is in doubt whether those changes will be sustainable over the next 17 years or so. I think they are (partly because my career has changed), but who I am to tell, so any assurances on my part would be useless anyway. It still doesn't feel good to be plan B, by the way.

To helhathnofury:

No offence but it does sound as if she's just settling in having you back because couldn't find anything better ( which is a compliment of sorts). I think you just need to deliver an ultimatum instead of all this dithering. If it is her you want then tell her she has till x date to make her mind up. If she wants to try again then go back to living together. It could fall apart again but at least next time you would know not to hang around waiting.

Yeah, but I'm not sure if she's deciding to get me back. She's sending those mixed signals. But perhaps the gamble of setting her an ultimatum would the right thing to do to enforce some clarity of the situation. It could also go terribly wrong, though. What do others think? I'd be really curious to have a second and third opinion on whether I should do this.

To indigox:

It sounds like she only wants you because she can't find anyone else.

That sounds about right, and it doesn't feel very good. The question is, what consequences do I derive from that? Should I swallow that, continue my self-improvement, and try to get her back? If so, how? Or should I tell her to find her luck elsewhere because it wouldn't be sustainable in the long run? It's not like I don't have other options. Or should I set an ultimatum as suggested by somebody else?

So op, in answer to the question: are you wearing a condom? You say you have regular tests and are cautious who you sleep with (paraphrasing). So you're not using condoms? Or are you having tests as well as using condoms? If the former - then I think you need to tell your wife about your sex life. She deserves to know she is at risk of stds.

I'm unsure how this has come to be a dilemma, when you agreed to be FWBs and go forward with a man 'no ask' agreement.

There's only an imbalance because she can't find anyone, if she found a potential better other, she'd pursue it. I don't say this to rub your face in it, it's just how I see it.

The fact that she hasn't found someone else, isn't your problem.
The terms of your separation are should be crystal clear, with no took for ambiguity. I suggest you clarify this and if necessary do it by text to avoid denials later on.

"we agreed to be FWB after you wanted us to split and during our separation, we're both free to be intimate with other people"

Your wife got GIGS (grass is greener syndrome), now she wants back in, but doesn't want to fully commit to because she just might find someone she desires down the line.

I bet if she's tried online dating, there's a heap of married men looking for affairs.

I know someone who ended her marriage, but could not find any better and went back as a second wife. Her Ex got a woman half his age.

The market for good men can be crap. Another thread on here is about a woman wishing she never ended an abusive relationship, because she's still alone 6 years on. Very sad indeed.

I can only assume that to have proposed what you did

1. you feel you've wronged her in the past
2. you're crazy in love with her to put up with it
3. The prospect of divorce and the associated costs don't fill you with glee

Because if my DH said he felt trapped and wasn't feeling it with me, I wouldn't take it so well and I'd not be looking to reconcile unless he came back begging... But that's just me... I'm not that good with being messed around or being placed on the back burner just in case

When you have gotten together on a FWB basis... How is it?
Is the intimacy good? Do you enjoy each other's company?
Do you guys have any children?

And... You mentioned working in another city... Couldn't she have gone there with you before the separation?

I think she's definitely lost the emotional connection with you and without professional help (couples counselling), you're going to struggle to rebuild your marriage.

What you don't want, is her saying she's committed and retuning, but only because it's better than being on her own.

Make it very clear to her that you're prepared to try again, if she's committed, if not you'll leave things as they are right now and you are free to see others.

I think your wife would benefit from counselling. That way she can do a lot of digging into her feelings with the counsellor and hopefully decide what she wants.

SandyY2K,

Thanks, your comments are really helpful, once again.

I'm unsure how this has come to be a dilemma, when you agreed to be FWBs and go forward with a man 'no ask' agreement.

It wasn't a dilemma until yesterday when she asked me if I only wanted to extend the FWB situation some more to sleep with somebody I hadn't got the chance to sleep with yet. It makes me feel like it could be considered cheating if I kept my current sidekick. Which would be really weird because if that were true, it would make the whole arrangement invalid. Anyway, I guess I just don't want to do something she could hold against me later. I don't see myself as a cheater.

There's only an imbalance because she can't find anyone, if she found a potential better other, she'd pursue it. I don't say this to rub your face in it, it's just how I see it.

Yes, you are right. Unfortunately.

The fact that she hasn't found someone else, isn't your problem. The terms of your separation are should be crystal clear, with no took for ambiguity. I suggest you clarify this and if necessary do it by text to avoid denials later on. "we agreed to be FWB after you wanted us to split and during our separation, we're both free to be intimate with other people"

Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, that's indeed her problem. The terms are actually crystal clear. We talked about them more than once over some time. Except for that one question yesterday, which makes me think I may need to tell her that I've been seeing people. But I guess that's not a good idea because it would violate the terms of the agreement. So I guess the bottom line is I should not tell her, continue as before, but at the same time put more pressure on her to make a decision?

Your wife got GIGS (grass is greener syndrome), now she wants back in, but doesn't want to fully commit to because she just might find someone she desires down the line.

I didn't know there was a name for it. But good to know. :-D And you may be right about that. The funny thing is, I explored lots of other grass but came to the conclusion that I'd like to keep her. Why doesn't she just explore other pastures and make a decision? Sounds like inactivity and apathy to me. I actually want her to go out there and see if there is somebody better. If there is, I'm pretty sure this closure would be OK for me, though of course I'd prefer her to come to the conclusion that I was the best man for her in the world. :-D

I bet if she's tried online dating, there's a heap of married men looking for affairs.

I bet lots of them. She told me she's been flirting with men on the street but they just wouldn't talk to her. What the hell?! I know she has an intimidating aura. She doesn't know how to go about getting those experiences, I guess. It's more hurting to be told things like that than her just doing it and making a decision. But I guess it would also be really weird to tell my own wife I'd want her to stray.

I know someone who ended her marriage, but could not find any better and went back as a second wife. Her Ex got a woman half his age.
The market for good men can be crap. Another thread on here is about a woman wishing she never ended an abusive relationship, because she's still alone 6 years on. Very sad indeed.

It's a gamble. You can win or lose. I just don't want both of us to lose. I'm keeping my options because I don't want to lose completely while she wins.

I can only assume that to have proposed what you did

1. you feel you've wronged her in the past
2. you're crazy in love with her to put up with it
3. The prospect of divorce and the associated costs don't fill you with glee

I told her all of that repeatedly. I'm relatively sure I'm sending both clear and honest signals to her as far as that is concerned.

Because if my DH said he felt trapped and wasn't feeling it with me, I wouldn't take it so well and I'd not be looking to reconcile unless he came back begging... But that's just me... I'm not that good with being messed around or being placed on the back burner just in case

That's right, I didn't take it so well. But facing the two options of losing her versus being on the reserve list while being able to explore other options, too, I chose the latter. Time will tell if that was good or bad. I just wish I knew how to proceed from here on out and get her to make that final decision.

When you have gotten together on a FWB basis... How is it?
Is the intimacy good? Do you enjoy each other's company?
Do you guys have any children?

You mean with my wife? Yes, it's very good when I see her. Very intimate. I can feel how she's relaxing when she's spending time with me. She just tends to forget about it after a while of not seeing me. Our geographical distance makes it difficult to spend more regular time with each other at the moment, which is not helpful. We don't have children.

And... You mentioned working in another city... Couldn't she have gone there with you before the separation?

Yes, but that's been a persistent pattern in our whole relationship. We've both moved several times to be with the other person and got tired of it. I guess we didn't make the cut this time, partly because of the existing problems. She did raise the possibility of both of us moving to a new place together very recently. I'd like that, but it can only be a long-term goal as we both have very specialised and high-income jobs.

I think she's definitely lost the emotional connection with you and without professional help (couples counselling), you're going to struggle to rebuild your marriage.

Maybe. I have seen other cases where the psychologist told a woman to cut the partner lose although I thought they still had common ground for trying it. I'm a bit hesitant to send her somewhere because of that and would prefer figuring things out with her. I also don't want a psychologist in a couples therapy to bring up the FWB secrets.

What you don't want, is her saying she's committed and retuning, but only because it's better than being on her own.

Exactly. So I'm not sure if an ultimatum would be good or bad.

Make it very clear to her that you're prepared to try again, if she's committed, if not you'll leave things as they are right now and you are free to see others.

She knows that, but I'll stress it some more. Thanks for this. That's the best way forward right now, I guess.

I think your wife would benefit from counselling. That way she can do a lot of digging into her feelings with the counsellor and hopefully decide what she wants.

I hope the counsellor would not lightly send her into the wrong direction. I'd rather have her make up her own mind somehow. My inclination is to say that first-hand experiences might be a more sustainable cure (or reason to quit).

It's a pity you still seem to love or want her because life is too short for all this shit. If i were you, the question I'd be asking myself is what has changed that your relationship would have a significantly better chance of success second time round? I don't see an answer to that in the information you've provided so my gut feel is you'd just be prolonging the slow death of your marriage. As someone not shackled by any emotional investment in this i would be saying sack her off altogether, including the fwb part, and move on. I appreciate it is not as easy for you but seriously, why would you want somebody back that dumped you so they could be free to screw around?

If she commits, I'll commit.

Maybe you need to go first?

There are millions of men out there and millions of women - no one needs to worry about being on their own. Although even being on your own has positives and negatives - same as being in a relationship.

It sounds like you want an immediate solution op - but sometimes a bit of time and space is actually what is needed.