Anyone around with a PA husband? Could do with some hand hold ***Warning - very long***

[MyRedPepper]

I think I really need venting.

I have been thinking about my marriage and have realised not long ago that H has just being an arsehole most of our relationship thanks to a textbook passive aggressive behaviour.

He is Never ever talking about what he thinks/feels so it's impossible to know where you stand AND there is no intimacy at all. It's impossible to discuss ANYTHING (from parenting to organising holidays etc...). Most answers are 'I don't know' or single word answer when he does answer. He usually tuning out completely so much so that I can stop in the middle of a senetence and he won't say anything for 30s. Or he walks about of the room.

Everything he does is always presented as a fait accompli, no discussion. From the 'I'm starting xx job in a month and I will be travelling 4 days a week' (just when Dc1 was due - yes he did try to say he needed to travel a week before my due date ) to the 'I'm going out tonight' said in the am as we are all getting ready to go to work/school.

Anything that I want to do is poo pooed. I retrained and did a degree and finished DESPITE him whereas all the people on the course were gushing at how they would never have managed WITHOUT their partner's support. Same with starting anew business etc...

No support for anything ever. And always showing no trust all in my pov. I was struggling with Dc1, that was obvioulsy because I was weak, too emotional/should just get on with things (I had PND). I was exhausted, that's just because I was lazy (I was diagnosed with ME). Even saying that we needed to change school for the dcs was meet with resistance. It took me a YEAR to get him to agree all that for him to breezily announced a few months later that 'yay the old school was crap wasn't it. We (???) should have moved them earlier'

Add to that stonewalling, telling me my conversation is boring anyway etc.... constant put downs (no words ever, just small expressions in the face showing constant disapproval and then sulking/getting sullen for hours and creating an atmosphere that will make everyone uncomfortable)

I feel Ive spent at least 10 years trying to find a way around his behaviour. Ive actually hit on most of the advice given to deal with PA people. Do not react and ignore. Stay very matter of fact. Always.
But who wants to live with someone with who you can never share your excitement with because you know they will use that against you and will make it hard for you to do those things?? (That's one of the advice I read btw!)

I suppose I just need to say all those things aloud.
Anyone who is/has been going through something similar?

No, but my immediate thought is that you owe it to yourself and your children to stop 'going through it' and live a better life without your Horrid Husband.

He knows he is doing it, doesn't he? To him you seem to be equivalent to one of those stress toys you shake or squeeze whenever something irritates. Whatever is happening, he has got you to blame it on.

That's no way to live!

Why on earth have you stuck it out this long? Can you leave? (And do you want to?)

Re-read what you've written and then ask yourself why you're still married to this man. Are you really going to waste more of your life with him?

You MUST leave him. You really must. Your children will suffer irreversible harm if you don't (bitter voice of experience).

You need to get out. This sounds draining and miserable. Are you in a position to leave him?

Hi RedPepper

I am married to someone who sounds very similar to what you describe. I can relate to a lot of what you say especially the lack of support and telling you their plans at the last minute. Also the stonewalling and being uninterested in discussing their feelings.

At the beginning I thought I could work around it and made excuses for him. However when I started realising that a lot of the behaviour is deliberate and designed to control you and put you in your place I became very resentful. In the end I decided I could not live with such a highly manipulative person who I had to guard myself from. I almost felt like he wished harm upon me rather then good as he would never be happy for any of my achievements on work, my studies or even with the kids.

To cut a long story short we have no separated and in the process of getting divorced. I lasted about 7 years and tbh it wasn't this behaviour specifically which triggered my decision to leave but I do feel a sense of relief that I don't have to live with it anymore. My family have told me I'm more like myself now. The only problem is that I still have to coparent with him as we have two young kids so I still have to deal with pay behaviour but I feel more positive about life now we are not together.

The reason I'm still there is the ME.
It stayed undiagnosed for a long time (obvioulsy it was me being lazy). I was a SAHM, I couldn't just take time off iyswim. And then I was just able to survive each day, let alone starting to make plans to leave etc...
To be brutally honest, I don't think I would have been able to leave with the dcs 18 months ago just because I wouldn't have been able to cook/clean the house/wash etc... for the 3 of us. Wo even talking about working.
That's wasn't H doing, even though it certainly pushed me to do more than I should ever have done which in turns made things so much worse.

However, I am getting better with the ME. I can start thinking. I'm realising what has been going on and getting angry.
I'm not sure I can cope (physically) with going through a divorce, needing to work enough etc... just now.
So I want to wait a bit whilst I'm getting things in order, still get better physically. Maybe 6 months?? I need to do all the preparations (bank account for me, copying wage slips, looking at what I could get benefit wise etc...) little by little.

Apologies if this comes across as crass OP but have you considered that living with someone like your DH might be a key factor in your PND and ME?

How does he respond when you address any of your concerns about his behaviour or the relationship? My stbxh would either completely ignore me so it would be as if I spoke to a wall. Or he would listen then tell me I was being completely unreasonable and ungrateful and present it as if it was all in my head. Or occasionally he would say the right things but never follow through. That kind of pushed me to separate as well because I really didn't see from him any acknowledgment that his behaviour was unacceptable and any serious attempts to change.

Well that and the fact I didn't see it as PA, let alone seeing it as a wilful decision to punish/get at me.

This idea of taking revenge or being difficult with the person who are supposed to love never entered my mind.
I could list the behaviours and say that it didn't feel right. But when I read about PA, what comes out is that actually these are acts that are wilful iyswim.
It actually cam even more into focus a few days ago after I told him (assertively) that I had enough. I think he could feel things are gong really wrong. So.... he suddenly started talking to me like a normal Person!
Which feels emotionally abusive to me even more than just PA.

Stop trying to find ways to work around his behaviours which are based on power and control over you. His actions are emotionally abusive in nature and he does this because it works for him; you have stayed with him to date and you have twisted yourself up in knots as a result. He has got you where he wants you really and now you're waking up to the reality of living with such an individual. Regardless of why he is as he is (and I would have a bloody good look at his parents in this respect) this relationship is bad for you and your children who are also being caught in the crosshairs here.

He does not help you with your ME, probably on some level still thinks that you do not have this and simply contributes more to your overall stress levels. I would certainly seek legal advice sooner rather than later as well, gather paperwork together now and start planning your exit asap too. Another six months or so of this just gives him another six months in which to mistreat you and in turn your children further.

And its not just you here that is being affected either. What do you think your children are learning about relationships here?. Is this really what you want to teach them about relationships; that this is acceptable to you as your kids mother?. Its no legacy to leave them, it really is not.

Womens Aid are worth contacting as well as is the Rights of Women organisation re legalities.

It's not an easy decision to make RedPepper and I really feel for you. I think also you doubt yourself because the abuse is not overt. They don't shout, are not violent, don't call you names or verbally put you down etc. So sometimes you think is it really that bad? However it's like a constant chipping at your personality, goals, self esteem and self worth. My stbexh would make me feel completely worthless sometimes and I'm still shaking off the impact of that.

Do your research and make your preparations. When your ready to leave and when you feel nothing more can be done only you will know when you have reached that point.

floating I agree. It's very hard to spot and get because it's so underhand.
It's easy to say 'oh it's abusive' when you finally have spotted the pattern. But on a day to day basis, just one little thing after the other, it's near impossible to pin it down.
Is he grumbling because something happened at work or because of something Ive said?
And yes speaking to him about any concern is like speaking to a wall. With no answer at all.

spark I think you are right about the ME and him making it worse. Or even maybe being part of what started it.

Fwiw, my decision is taken. I know I will leave.
It's the how that I havent figured out. As well as the when, just due to the fact I can NOT do what a normal person would do (i.e. Going to the bank, solicitor etc... ) wo great struggle. I have no choice to take my time to do it unless I want to relapse afterwards and be unable to look after my dcs. (Which would mean H looking after them :()

Anyone around who could give me some ideas on how to cope with H whilst I'm sorting everything out?

I'm an expert in this shit. Please feel free to pm me. This used to be my life. A few months out of it now. So, so much better. Even the worst of it is not as bad as it was.

I found Women's Aid an excellent source of support. I never expected to end up there but had the most wonderful and insightful discussions ever there. Its important to actually meet with these people, rather than just speak on the phone.

Whilst you get your head caught up with it all you need to be a 'good girl' at home. Don't allow him to realise how close to the edge he is pushing you.

You must also get your marriage, birth, children's birth certificates out of the house and somewhere safe. Likewise precious and irreplaceable things like photos and baby scans.

Start buying extra groceries if possible. You'll be grateful for a few extra bags of pasta or stamps, or squash or whatever.

Meet with a solicitor now. They will help prepare you.

Tell your doctor everything

Know you are being abused and make an appointment to see your local domestic abuse officer. Mine have been outstanding.

Don't tell anyone except your closest confidante your plans.

Quietly wean your children off h. Stop stage managing their relationship so its easier for them to not miss him.

Do not. Do not. I repeat. Do not ever believe another word your h says.

Go now and read 'The Dominator' by Pat Craven

Pm me. I'm almost free.

Are you married to my OH?! Is he Irish by any chance?!

Sorry no advice to give but I can give plenty of sympathy. I too have been called lazy when I was sick (anemic/pregnant), constantly stonewalled then asked why I'm annoyed at him. God almost all of the examples you give I've been through too.
How to cope? You can force and call out every issue but it's exhausting. Just switch off and plot To leave seeing him as a good cleNer/child minder/financial benefit in the meantime.

Yes, as Ice says. Some of your examples are exact to my experience too. It is awful. You're not wrong. And, they don't change.

I'm pissed off. Really pissed off.

We had words about a week, two weeks ago and I told him that the relationship we had was more like roommates, he needed to start talking to me and that I had enough of his YES meaning No etc...
At the time, I knew what was wrong but hadn't quite clocked that there is a name for it iyswim.

Well a few days after that, he decided to start being all nice, started to talk and engage in conversation etc... like a normal person. Yesterday, he went out of his way to get some stuff for the dcs (something he had never done - it costs money but maybe that was also to get at me??). He then went to our nearby farm to get some eggs that I am using. Again he has never ever done that.
It's like he has had a personality transplant.

And it f annoys me. I'm raging. How dare he just snap out of his sullen attitude and starts behaving like a normal person. Being nice and doing kind things for me wo me even asking. When I have been asking him to do just that for the last 10 years wo any success??
I could strangle him.

I doubt it will last OP, he just sees you pulling away and he wants to suck you back in by being 'nice'. Once he sees you relax and 'get over' it he will undoubtedly revert back to his old (real) self. I didn't go through this with a partner but with my mother. We are now low contact - I got really tired of walking on eggshells around her then relaxing (feeling almost euphoric!) when she sensed she was losing me and so started being a loving, warm mother. The relief would be immense, I would think "yes, this is it, I have finally worked out how to keep her happy" - it never lasted longer than perhaps a month or 6 weeks then back to her 'normal' self.

OP, have you read the threads about the Incompetent Husband? I don't know how to link to them, but they were an eye opener for the OP & culminated in their separation.

Towards the end, there was some great advice about emotionally disengaging, and the practical bits about breaking up.

I feel Ive spent at least 10 years trying to find a way around his behaviour

there IS a way.

OUT.

It won't last OP, he's just playing nicey nicey because he's worried you might call it a day.

More no I haven't. Ill try and see if I can find it but if you have a link that would be fantastic.

Oh I'm not expecting to last. Maybe until the end of the hols (we are away with other people so hopefully this will be better and then I am away with the dcs).

No what I striked me is the fact that he could do it.

See, if it was something totally out of his control, then he would only manage to be nice after a real struggle and lots of effort. It wouldn't be instantaneous (and actually I would be happy with someone putting such a huge effort in). But switching like this? This is more abusive behaviour for me.

Except that I still haven't had my hear around the idea that this is abusive ..... I can accept a lot of things when I know that people actually have some specific issues (let's say being in the spectrum and sometimes coming out as rude but unintentionally). Abuse and willfully hurting people? The very people who are supposed to love and care for? F no.