Who should clean this mess??

[CokeAttack]

Very short version
Partner A picks up their lunch bag and drops a bottle of Coke that was in there. Bottle exploded, mess everywhere.

Long version
Lunch bad was a t the top of a cupboard that A can't reach (being on tiptoes allows them to grab the handle of the bag but not the bag itself iyswim). PArtner B has put the bag there open.
Partner B has been told numerous times that it's very hard for A to reach and to please not out the bag too far away/close the bag etc....
A also has a chronic illness that means they are extremely tired so the half an hour+ of cleaning on the top of day to day stuff (A cleans the kitchen in the am, prepare the evening meal if in slow cooker etc...) is likely to send them over energy wise. A doesn't not do that sort of cleaning (as in floors, doors etc) in the house on a day to day basis due to their illness and haven't done so for several years now.

So what would you expect to happen? A cleans, B cleans, A and B clean the kitchen together??

The bag needs to live somewhere you can easily reach. Constantly second-guessing yourself about whether you're being reasonable, and mentally weighing up blame, is going to get you nowhere and build up resentment. Practical solutions to make your lives easier are the way forward. But if he is deliberately resistent to cooperating with those solutions, then you have a serious relationship problem.

Both of you should clear it up since you clearly have too much time on your hands.

I think he should have cleaned it up. In sickness and in health, right?

He shouldn't be dickish about putting the bag up there. That would be beyond irritating if you were just short, but short and ill? Unbelievable.

I hope he's making tea tonight.

Floofycat Dont worry I wasn't crying in a bad way.
Your post just touched a nerve.

I agree that it can be hard to find a balance when one partner gets disabled.

I find that I do not want to acknowledge I'm disabled in any way. I'm a coper. I will push myself to the limit. I feel guilty to put more pressure on DH to do things around the house. I feel guilty when I have to sit down and I know he is cleaning up the kitchen in the evening. I feel like I'm taking advantage of the situation ins some ways. And I really really do not want to see myself as ill.
On the other side, I totally know I need to pace myself. That I need to look after myself if I want to get better than I am atm. And I know that I can NOT do more than I already do (actually I know I'm already doing more than I should be doing. Ive already been told off by HCP about it)

DH though is very good at making things clear wo saying a word. I know that he thought for a LONG time that I was just lazy. He acknowledged it before when put on the spot. And that doesn't feel nice and has fed into my own beliefs.
I had to 'fight' for him to do more in the house and to just acknowledge i can not do the same things than before and yes that means also planning around what I can do sometimes (Last issue still ongoing btw)

So now I do not know what is and isn't ok to ask. I feel pull in between those two positions (I'm the lazy and hard to live with person who should just get in with things vs I'm ill and should be supported by my DH).
I cannot see anymore in a case like today what is and isn't ok. (And from the posts on this thread, this doesn't seem to be that clear cut either!)

The idea that kindness is what should be the most important there is what made me cry. I don't feel there has been any spontaneous kindness for a very long time.

OP
I have been a capable coper for years.
DH worked long hours while I worked part time, cared for parents and dc and managed things on the domestic front.
I developed a debilitating condition that meant I could no longer work, then our eldest child died suddenly.
DH has stepped up and looked after me because for almost a year I have barely been able to function.
I know it is hard for him, but that is what a loyal partner should do.
I am so sorry that you are struggling and your DH is making things harder. Do you have any other support? Could you separate? Or would that make things worse?

I understand, it's hard isn't it. I think it may be easier if you try to separate your illness in your mind and look objectively at what kind of person, and partner, your DH is and how he has shown himself to be in the past. If he hasn't always been supportive, kind and loving, coping with someone who is ill, isn't going to magic him into this sort of person.

It sounds as though perhaps he isn't that supportive and sympathetic to you at the moment. Perhaps some impartial counselling might help, not necessarily as a couple but for you, to help you see your situation and relationship as it is, and what you want.

I know what you mean about coping and doing too much. It struck me reading your OP, that if wiping up spills is tear inducing (and I get this) how the fuck are you managing to cope with working? (Meant kindly). Perhaps this is an area to look at.

I have (very reluctantly) given up work - this was a big change as I was the breadwinner - and when I look back at the last couple of years, it feels like one of those cringey team building exercises where I have fallen backwards into someone arms and been caught - does that make sense?!

It really does come back to "in sickness and in health" - if you can't trust your partner 100% that they will catch you if you fall back, the "in sickness" part is a problem. The trouble is, people don't always know the reliability of their partner until they actually have the fall!

I think situations like this either make you or break you - it can strengthen your relationship if it's very strong to start with, but any cracks at all and it's very difficult to sustain it.

Obviously I don't know your condition, but my consultant has put me in touch with a few groups who offer support/counselling etc. You may have already done all this so forgive me. Being ill did edge me towards being very self centred and introspective as you literally think about your health, pain, plans etc all the time so talking to people in the same boat and hearing their experiences and advice helped me a lot. (They may well also have a lot of leaflets for your DH to read so he understands more!)

to everyone struggling in a similar boat and also to you, endoftheline I'm so so sorry for your loss.

I have no idea how I'm coping with work TBH. And I know even less how I did it 18months ago.
But I do know by experience that not working is the worst thing I can do. Both for myself (I'll get crazy stuck in the house all day long) and for our relationship (there is clearly some sort of power game going on there and stopping work isn't a good idea re DH involvement).
I'm also self employed. If I stop, it will be very hard to start again iyswim.
So even if I only work a few hours every week (I'll do very well to do 10~15hours), I need it for my own sanity really.

I tried groups before and it's not for me :). I found it dragged me down and left me feeling quite crap. What works better is to meet up with people who have similar interest.

I think you're right re the fact he will never be supportive. He wasn't when I had PND and AND either...
It's hard because I would sometimes really do with feeling supported. Actually I would settle with someone who wouldnt throw a wrench (is that the right expression??) in my efforts to get better. :(

This thread though has been quite interesting. Because basically what comes out is that people who have no experience of chronic illness seem to be reacting like DH. And I suspect he still isn't accepting my limitations either. I think he is more resentful aboutbthem (and me) instead.

endiftheline . I'm sorry. This must have been so hard.

Er, I'd say the bigger problem here is that you have a debilitating chronic illness and physically (and emotionally?) cannot do certain things ... that your DH doesn't seem to accept that, or care ... that you would rather be a martyr than tell him straight to step up.

As for the 'anyone who finds my martyr stuff irritating clearly has no experience with this and is just like my husband' - if you just want people to agree with you, maybe request that people only post if their opinion is exactly the same as yours, and definitely don't bother pretending you wanted neutrality and objectivity.

So A left a coke bottle in her lunch bag but expected B to remove it before storing lunch bag. A then causes the bottle, that they themselves left in the lunch bag, to explode but expects B to clean up the mess. If A can reach the handle of the bag then just getting a very small step or a grab handle would solve the problem with it being no more than centimetres out of comfortable reach or just store the lunch bag when it can be reached. Why would you keep something out of reach that is used on a daily basis.

Pasta OK...
I'm not going to argue with you but it was nowhere near what I intended to say.
And if you think I haven't tried to ask for help, I'm sorry but you are the one who is deluded. I have on numerous occasions. It diet mean I'm going to be listened to or that DH will chnage his attitude.

Still don't understand the problem with relocating the lunch bag - asked earlier as have others. It doesn't need to be difficult to get down- it just needs to be kept somewhere else surely??

Hmm, I've not got experience of a debilitation condition. I do have a husband who has a different attitude to me, and I do see some parallels. I'm very on the fence with who is right/wrong here, as I can see you are. I'm not commenting to try to apportion blame, but to help you have an insight into how I might see a similar situation, which might help you unravel what your husband thinks.

So, lets look at a scenario where one partner is incapacitated and so therefore needs help. Lets say in my/DH case , a broken arm. We'd approach it differently.

DH would be - "I've got a broken arm. I can't make my lunch. You need to make my lunch before you go to work. I have a broken arm, I can't do it. Oh and by the way - I want this specific thing, made in this specific way, because, poor me, I have a broken arm. You'll also need to phone work for me, to tell them about my broken arm."

I'd do it for him, because of the broken arm and all, but I must admit, I'd be a bit put out, and if it was a long term situation, I'd end up quite resentful.

I'd be - "I've broken my arm, so can't reach into the cupboards. Would you mind leaving x, y and z out on the counter for me, and get a plate and knife out? Then I can knock myself up some lunch. I might need you to unscrew/loosen the lid of the mayo, as I struggle to do that! And would you mind leaving me the phone close by, because I need to phone work and let them know I've broken my arm. Are there any other calls that need to be made? I might as well make them as I'm in all day with not much to do!"

And that's quite a big difference.

In this scenario you seem to be a little like my DH would be. You are looking at what you can't do, rather than what you can do. You seem to think it's your husbands responsibility to do not only the physical things, but also the thinking for you. You should be taking the mental responsibility for your needs, even when you need your DH to help with some of the physical stuff. So it should be you works out where your lunch box should be stored - somewhere in your reach. It should be you who makes sure that the cola isn't left in the lunch bag, because you can't lift it down with that in. It should be you who knows you must close the bag and makes sure you do, because if something is left in it and open it might smash/spill. None of that stuff is your DH's responsibility.

As I said, I'm not apportioning blame, I'm trying to be constructive, and perhaps give an insight into how your DH feels. But when I read your scenario, whilst I definitely thought that your DH should help you clean up, I also felt you were unfairly expecting him to carry your mental load for you, which is really your own responsibility.

I think it's likely that you are in a situation that has evolved due to poor health, rather than has been planned, and you probably need to have a good, long talk. Both of you should be able to communicate what you need from each other in order to keep the relationship together. I do think the focus should be on what you can do, rather than what you can't, and what DH can do in order to help you do more. There needs to be appreciation of what you do for each other, and kindness towards each other too.

Only read half of the first page. But enough for me to think that this situation is entirely the fault of B and therefore B's responsibility to clean up the mess.

1. It has been determined in the relationship that B is responsible for packing lunch bags etc away in the evenings, yet B keeps storing A's lunch bag in a place that is difficult for A to reach (and is unable to use a stepping stool) due to disability. Yes A could have asked By to get it down, but why can't B just put it in a spot that is accessible to A? A shouldn't be required to constantly ask for assistance with the daily task of making lunch in the mornings.

1. A's lunch bag was supposed to be empty. I assume empty is how A normally finds the bag as it belongs to A for A's lunch. B should not have left anything in the bag period. B also knows that getting the bag down is a struggle for A as regular requests to change it's location have been ignored. Putting a coke bottle in the bag is daft beyond belief.

IMO B should have 100% cleaned the resulting mess and relocate the bag going forward. If It's been agreed that B does this task in the evening I don't understand why B is choosing to be obstinate about where the bag goes when it is causing deliberate, unnecessary difficulty and possibly pain for A.

I'm quite at B.

Agree with mrsm43 as well... I guess it depends on the mentality you are both adopting and that you are trying to help each other. My above post is coming from the position that your arrangement had been discussed and agreed (which seemed to be the case since you do what you can in the mornings and make your own lunch). It didn't seem like evening tasks are being imposed on your partner but if that is the case then I guess I can understand how B might feel but don't see how it changes the situation much. Your situation is what it is.

Agree Mom2K, it is almost as if it is done deliberately. I mean it absolutely makes no sense to put the bags in a place that OP has difficulty reaching. When our children were small, we put coat hooks up at their height so they could get their own coats, why wouldn't you do something so minor to make it easier for your wife.

Sorry OP, your husband sounds like a dick.

Whoever made the mess should clean it up. And maybe get one of those little steps for stuff you can't reach around the house

Thank you so much for your input again.
Ive come to the conclusion that I'm probably on the verge of a relapse and I'm not coping at all with day to day stuff. :(

I still have no idea who is right or wrong. Or who should have done more (if there is even someone who should have done so)

I will organise some counselling because I still haven't accepted the illness and that doesn't help. I'm trying too hard to do things I shouldn't be doing just to then collapse because I've done too much. It's the guilt and shame stuff coming out (guilt of asking more from DH and shame to be ill - and yes i know there is no shame...)

A PP mentioned resentment and yes there is some around. There has been too many instances before where I felt dh didn't have my back and was quite judgemental (incl around the tiredness element of the illness). And that's clouding my view of things now.

I do hope that the counselling will help me see things as they are (I suspect a mix of me being unreasonable in my expectations and DH being a bit of an arse).
I also think he still has no idea what 'being tired' means for me. Even explaining that tired for me means having to think every single thing I do so that I'm not wasting energy doesn't quite compute.
Eg I told him that if I put the washing on the line, the bucket is in the outside table, at my level, not on the floor because bending down each time is too hard. He looked bewildered and I know he didn't 'get it'.... he really thought I was over the top and weird because he can't see bending down like things being tiring (I do just as lifting my arms up like can some days also be too much...)

Feeling a bit better today so more optimistic. Upward and forward it is.

It doesn't matter who was right of wrong, it is all about showing some kindness and care. It is the little things that count like putting the bucket on the table rather than the ground and putting the lunch bag in a place you can reach. It makes no difference to your husband but it is a huge difference to you.

councelling sounds like a good idea. Look after yourself

I really don't understand why you can't put your lunch bag somewhere that's easily accessible for you....I can't get why you wouldn't do such a simple thing, then there wouldn't be all this angst of not wanting to ask for help etc.