Accepting the male 'need' to look

[MrsDoylesTeaParty]

Does anyone else have an internal conflict with their husband/partner looking at and appreciating naked women and hating him doing it, but believing that it is just biology.. all or most males of all species are obsessed with the female. I feel like it's just pointless to be bothered about it as it is what it is, but then I really don't like it.. I have had c-sections and definitely have a damaged body at the moment but he's looking at pictures of young unblemished bodies. But I was bothered by it when I had a good body and lots of confidence.

I've not said anything and I don't want to control him or stop him, I just sometimes feel that I'd like to be single forever and not have to worry about what men get up to.. and just have casual encounters when I feel it and not be emotionally invested.

I was reading a reddit question yesterday "what do men wish women knew about them?" and lots of answers were about how they can't control the urge to look.

If that's how men are then I accept it, I just don't want to be exposed to it. I'm only 32 but it makes me feel past it, and will only get worse as I age.

Nah sorry I'd not tolerate this, he's showing you no respect; he doesn't have to seek these pictures out does he, do you do the same, no didn't think so.

Something seriously wrong in your relationship if you think being single would save you from worrying about what he is looking at.

Oh and btw, not all men behave like this.

But this is like perusing the little woods catalogue to get your kicks.. it seems pretty pointless for the upset it's causing.
Have you seen the stuff on reddit? Littlewoods it most certainly is not!

You haven't ruined your body having his children! At least I bet that isn't how he sees it. Does your dh find you attractive? Does he say and do things that show he desires you? I'm aware that there are a minority of men who openly say derogatory things about their partner's post-partum bodies, but I'm not getting that impression here. Just because you view your body negatively doesn't mean your dh shares that opinion.

I don't want to fall into that easy pattern of always being too tired.
You're either tired or you're not. Being tired is not something people do out of laziness or as a bad habit. Do you mean that you are making an effort to maintain a sexual relationship even when you feel tired, because that's important to you, personally? Or do you feel under pressure to be ready for sex when he wants, due to him eyeing up other women and making sure you know it (or how else do you know?)

No he's very complimentary! Always touching me, saying I'm beautiful, saying he loves so and so bit of me. Which is why I'm not angry and I'm willing to accept if the desire to view others nakedness is totally separate from our relationship. But many of you have said they don't need to do this.

Sometimes I wish we could all swap sex for a day! I once read of a female to male transexual who had started taking testosterone and couldn't stop thinking about sex and perving on people, they were shocked by it but said they knew what men were on about now!

ravenmum I have sex because I want it, I would never do it under pressure.. We have gone months and months before and he never said anything. I meant I'm tired but I want it, so I make the effort to muster some energy!

Men are not primitive beasts unable to resist their animal urges any more than women are. Somebody (presumably your DH?) wants you to believe it to give him licence to do whatever he wants and have you still believe he's great and just can't help it because he has a penis.

This.

And read Testosterone Rex by Cordelia Fine. It's very good on how unsupported to actual science the myth of male promiscuity, permanent horniness or violence are. In other words, no, male hormones or genes do not dictate that the male gaze is helpless to resist a glimpse of perky female body.

And no, if I thought my husband wasn't moved more to pity than lust by some unfortunate women whose poor self-esteem and low sense of their own value as human beings has them posting naked photos on the internet for the boost of a vote from a bunch of anonymous strangers, I would no longer be married. That is one of the most genuinely unattractively desperate things I've come across.

If men need to look I'm surprised SH hasn't died as he's blind.

Men do these things as it was acceptable for so many years that it's deeply ingrained in society. Centuries of entitlement won't just go away but it doesn't make it trie.

If we are going with biology how about women need to cheat to get the best quality of sperm to impregnate her?

It's bull.

Why is it OK for me to look at pics of amazingly decorated houses, or amazing looking food or funny pics of people falling over etc but I can't look at pics of men with their willys out or women with their books out.

Amusing typo.

Can you actually not see the irony of assuming that admiring someone's Moroccan tiles or bookshelves (inanimate objects) is similar to viewing actual female people as though they were inanimate objects? I say female people because I think very few women would think that looking at a series of penis photos on the internet was an enjoyable way of spending their time...

DH not SH.

And no, if I thought my husband wasn't moved more to pity than lust by some unfortunate women whose poor self-esteem and low sense of their own value as human beings has them posting naked photos on the internet for the boost of a vote from a bunch of anonymous strangers, I would no longer be married. That is one of the most genuinely unattractively desperate things I've come across.

How abject and debased would somebody have to be to post a picture of themselves naked to be viewed by strangers purely in the hope of a self esteem boost?

The tame face book version where people publish the duck face close ups in stupid "flirty" poses is bad enough on the needy, approval seeking scale - surely nobody with robust mental health is posting naked pictures of themselves in the desperate hope that offering up their naked photo pleases somebody enough to press a button on a screen...

Is there anything in it for these women? They presumably aren't even getting paid?

No not paid, just for the ratings!

This is one example, there are loads more subreddits.

Warning: not safe for work!

www.reddit.com/r/gonewild/?st=J53OJZ9P&sh=972b7764

@bigqueens, I am an actual female person and I look at nude photos of other actual female and male persons. Just because you may not find pics of willys appealing doesn't mean every woman doesn't. Ando why is it somehow more wrong to look at naked women then naked men?

Just because you may not find pics of willys appealing doesn't mean every woman doesn't.

Thephoney, I never said anything about my own doings either way, but women habitually perusing naked photographs of either sex are more unusual than men doing so, in part, obviously, because of this pervasive cultural myth about men's 'need to look' being dictated by their ravening biology and the equivalent myth that women are less interested in sex than men, are more sexually passive and aren't 'visual' in the same way.

why is it somehow more wrong to look at naked women then naked men? Again, I didn't say that. However, since you ask, men engaging in any kind of activity (whether porn/strip clubs, prostitution) that encourages them to view women primarily as objects presenting themselves to the male gaze and/or whose consent can be bought, is far more damaging than women going to see the Chippendales on a hen night or looking at naked male photos. Why? Because we still live in a profoundly patriarchal world where women do not have equal power and more likely to be viewed as 'lesser' beings.

Yes there are thousands of young women posting pictures and gifs of their nakedness so they can be rated and commented on. I am on reddit too and there are no men posting to be rated..

As I posted on the other similar thread about this, is there proof they are all actually women posting themselves? These images being posted without consent of women and girls is very common. I can think of another similar well known forum where this happens regularly. For those who are posting themselves I think it's quite sad that this is what we bring girls up to feel their worth is - their bodies and male approval of them.

On the subject in general it would be very convenient if we said it was just "how men are" that they need to objectify women and girls, seeing us primarily as existing for their gratification. I'd certainly not be happy at all with any male partner of mine doing this and wouldn't be with one if I knew he was doing, to me it's showing how he principally views women and girls.

This is really flipping hard to follow OP with you keep switching between names!

I recall 17 years ago (dawn of the internet becoming widespread) there was a site called AmIHotOrNot where people posted photos of themselves and you rated them out of 10. Men and women were doing it, but mostly women.

I had a brief look on the link posted above and saw the site tries to verify people (women) are posting pictures of themselves, but other similar sites regularly host photographs of women and girls uploaded by anyone, which in itself is abhorrent.

That it's almost exclusively women and girls who do this shows how we're brought up from such a young age to view our looks/bodies as being our value and the approval of men as being what we should aspire to. It's awful so many girls feel this from such a young age in my opinion, and those who access, vote on and comment on these sites are fuelling that culture - seeing women in that way themselves and perpetuating it amongst others.

I didn't like it when my ex did it at all, but he turned out to be a twat in many other ways anyway. I look at naked men (and get really turned on) and I'm single.

Is he brilliant in every other way? I totally understand how much it gets to you. At the end of my relationship with my ex I was wishing I was single for a long time but only because he became a shit anyway.

Only you can decide whether you can/should tolerate it and if it's a dealbreaker Talk to him again.

nolove

Normally on gone wild when you submit you have too have a paper with your username on in the photo to stop people posting random pics.

Can't remember who said there isn't pages for men, trust me there is plenty of men who do it on reddit aswell.

For me my feelings about this kind of thing tends to depend on how things are in my sex life with my partner the rest of the time.

However, if a man told me he couldn't help his sexual behaviour "because biology" or "because evolution" or any of that other pseudoscientific crap, I'd lose all respect for him. I own up to my preferences, however peculiar, as being mine.

And If I couldn't get off without porn, then leaving aside the fact that I'd be a bit worried by that, I would admit that it was the case and figure something out as a compromise with my partner, not pass the buck onto a load of made up nonsense about hormones or whatever.

Incidentally, regarding the transgender testosterone thing: I've lost the link, but there's research that suggests that while men have higher levels of testosterone, that is balanced out by many of their testosterone receptors being less sensitive to it than women's are. So a trans man on testosterone would have the female high sensitivity to it, coupled with the male high levels of it, and therefore not actually be representative of the usual male experience at all. (There will be outliers amongst men who have high-T/high-sensitivity, but it won't be the norm.) Remember how common it is for a woman to have a higher sex drive than her male partner. There's no reason to believe there's much difference there, across the population.

"And read Testosterone Rex by Cordelia Fine. It's very good on how unsupported to actual science the myth of male promiscuity, permanent horniness or violence are. In other words, no, male hormones or genes do not dictate that the male gaze is helpless to resist a glimpse of perky female body."

[BogQueens Fri 14-Jul-17 10:29:42]

That sounds very interesting, I'll have to look it up. I did read that the most influential studies suggesting a link between higher levels of testosterone and higher levels of violence in men were done on prisoners, who were not only a representative sample generally, but were in a high-stress situation (jail) that could have affected their hormones in a big way. That was ages ago though, it might be out of date by now.

*There will be outliers, amongst men, who have...

Men being the population within which there are outliers. It's probably obvious what I meant anyway, but just to be sure!

Wow there is some pretty graphic stuff there, granted.

Idve thought nsfw pictures wouldn't show up on trending or the equivalent on Reddit?

They appear once you've ticked a box in the settings to say you want nsfw content.. I have ticked it myself as there are lots of news/historical/nature stuff that is marked NSFW.

Thanks everyone, sorry about the namechanges It's a bugger to type my old one out each time on the app!