Moved abroad, it's all gone wrong

[Ruibies]

Hi everyone. Apologies if this is long-winded. I don't really know what I'm looking for from this thread, but it's helpful just to have somewhere to talk about it.

8 months ago DP and I moved abroad. After several long discussions and arguments we settled on the country and city I preferred, for a couple of main reasons. 1. I studied and can speak the language (and where he wanted to go neither of us can speak the native language, but they are a bit more english-friendly I guess) 2. We could both transfer internally with the companies we currently work for (and if we'd gone where he wanted to I'd have had to find a new job because we don't have offices there). Both those factors combined meant it would definitely be an advantageous move for me, and although probably not as advantageous for DP, it certainly wasn't supposed to be detrimental.

So 8 months in, the team DP works in is being dissolved and he's having to move to a new team, covering a new industry, with poor (in his opinion) management. His current team is being dissolved because they've performed poorly over the last year and the company doesn't think it's worth keeping them in that sector. He's now devastated & livid that we ended up here because it isn't where he wanted us to be anyway, and it's ended up costing him a lot in terms of career development. He was expecting to be made a manager within a year, now he's been moved to the bottom of the pile in another team he has no experience in, so he's not in line for any kind of promotion anytime soon.

To rub salt in the wound, I've just had an appraisal and been told that they will be looking to promote me in the not too distant future.

I feel horribly guilty like I have wrecked his career. When DP is venting about how pissed off he is with the situation, even though he has said it is not directed at me, I cannot help but feel like it is. I'm also the kind of person that deals with problems by actively thinking of how to fix it, whereas he is a bit more 'shoulda, woulda, coulda', and just keeps talking about how if we had stayed in London he'd have been a manager by now, or if we'd gone where he had wanted to then he'd have been more likely thriving (his industry is a bit stonger there). When I ask him what he wants to do, he can't answer me - perhaps fair enough given this has all happened in the last couple of weeks. But I've laid out what I think are our best options, and he just won't consider them.

I'm now at a point where I don't want to ask him how his day has gone, because I know where the conversation will go. I don't feel like we can make any kinds of plans for the future, because we don't know if we'll be sticking around here long enough or moving home, or moving somewhere else. I'm also gutted because I've wanted to live and work here since long before DP was in my life, and i know he's made sacrifices to make this happen, but it's just sad that it hasn't worked out and now this experience that I've wanted to have for over 6 years is most likely going to be cut short.

It's taking a toll on everything. All the little things that niggle when you live abroad are suddenly becoming more reasons as to why it's shit here and we should never have come. Talking about a holiday to relax and get away from it all is not on because he feels like he can't take leave when he's performing so badly. I don't know what advice to offer, I can't fix it for him, and it doesn't look like it's magically going to fix itself overnight and he's going to be the superstar of this new team and fast-tracked for promotion.

So anyway, I don't really know what the solution is, but the current situation is crap. Thanks if you've bothered to read all of this.

His career hiccup could have happened anywhere. He could have been in London or Timbuktu. The corporate world has these idiosyncrasies now and again. Promotions are merited not given on length of service. He needs to get his big boy pants on.

It's not your responsibility to 'fix it'. You may have moved to where you had a preference for but unless you held a gun to his head he also made that decision. It hasn't worked out as well as he'd have liked, that's life, we all have to live with the consequences of our decisions, good or bad. Let him rant as he works through it, be sympathetic and listen to him but don't get too involved or try to fix it for him, let him work it out. At the same time try to enjoy your own success (without rubbing it in, obviously). He'll eventually get over this setback and find new opportunity.

What Skye coo said. You didn't create his work problems and you can't fix them.

I don't see how " the whole situation is crap" . You job is going well and you seem to be happy living there. So In fact everything is going fine except your P is unhappy in his job.

Why can't you make plans for the future ? Why would you have to move if you don't want to ? You are acting like his job and opinions are more important than his.

So he expected you to go somewhere where you couldn't speak the native language and you wouldn't have a job? I'll bet if you struggled to get a job he wouldn't have been feeling guilty over it. You presented a very fair alternative, where both of you had the opportunity to thrive. Unfortunately he fucked it up. It's not your fault.

Do not, I beg you, get sucked in to this idea that his career is super important you have to make sure it's all good for him. Too many women end up there with no career of their own.

You're doing well. He should be pleased for you. He'll sort things out, with time. Don't take the blame for this.

I think the PPs are all make valid points, but coming from someone who was/is in a similar position (we've taken a move overseas which benefits DH's career more than mine) I do have a lot of sympathy for your DH. He presumably is feeling pretty shit about himself and his career right now, in a country where he is isolated by not speaking the language and didn't really want to be in the first place. It sounds like he is doing his best not to be resentful because he knows it isn't your fault, but at the same time he is struggling, understandably I think, with the fact that this move has worked about very well for you and very badly for him.

For his mental health and the health of your relationship it is absolutely vital that he finds something that will give him a sense of purpose to your being in this country. Can he find a new job? Can he take some time out from work and pursue a new goal - studying perhaps? If not, and you don't have children, I would strongly consider him returning to the UK alone and rebuilding his career in the short term. If he remains unhappy then there is no good outcome for your relationship if he stays.

I think he should give it some more time

He should stay in his current job and look for a new job at the same time

Atleast he is telling you and not suffering in silence

Sorry - he thinks you 'shoulda' moved to a country where you would be bottom of the jobs pile; instead he has had a knock back?

That was a very sensible move - and anyone could just whinge about what 'coulda shoulda' happened, but no-one has fore sight. He seems to have 20/20 hindsight though!

Def do not take responsibility for his career setback. He for sure wouldn't have taken any responsibility for yours if you'd moved to the other country - it would have just been 'what wives do' !!

I think maybe he's not accepting responsibility. No company throws the whole team under the bus as he is letting you believe, if there was a strong performer in there who we had highlighted for management he would have got that job. He's using the move as his scape goat for his poor performance. He might even have convinced himself of that but the overwhelming likely hood is it's not true and he is not ready for management.

I think I'd focus him on how he was going to prove his ability level and creating an action plan, and try to stop him blaming every thing else but himself.

Well I think this sounds like a relationship issue. Point being, there are some big issues at stake here (you always wanted to live in this place, it's a big thing for you, he has had a big and unforeseen career setback ) but yet you feel you can't even ask him how his day is, and you feel you can't make plans for the future. Neither of you is necessarily massively at fault (although your dp sounds a bit immature blaming this setback on 'the whole move') but... it shows that when the going gets tough you can't communicate with each other.
Time for both of you to pull up big girl/boy pants and start talking. And working on your relationship. Talk honestly and work to move forwards. He should still appreciate the fact that your career is going well. If he continues to behave like a small child I would question whether he is the man for me.

OP, I think your DP is getting an unfairly rough ride on this thread. International moves can be very problematic, even when they are internal within a company, and it is entirely possible he has been unfairly thrown under the bus, and he sounds very unhappy. I'd suggest that you repost on the Living Overseas board where people have first hand experiences of the stresses expat life can put on relationships and careers. I think you would get a more helpful response.

Thank you everyone for your input, it's really helpful, and interesting to get objective feedback. My mum has been great but her overwhelming love for me does cloud her advice sometimes .

@SkyeCoo thanks, you're very right in that by the time we made a decision it was definitely a team decision, and when we made the move he was really excited. It's unfortunate it hasn't gone as smoothly as he hoped. I feel so guilty and bad for him that I'm itching to be able to fix it, but again you're right this is his issue to work through and I need to sort out how to be supportive of that.

@SaltySeaDog72 I agree with your assessment of our communication. I need to work on letting him vent and being supportive without feeling attacked and defensive. We approach setbacks so differently I think it's quite hard for us to see where the other is coming from. Most of the time we have a very smooth and happy relationship, but there have definitely been a couple of stressful situations over the years where I've though god we're really not handling this very well for each other.

@cheeseismydownfall thank you so much for your opinion coming at it from his side. You are right, he is struggling with the setback because he worked really hard to get where he was in London, and is ambitious and driven, he never expected to be in this position where he is performing poorly. With finding a new job, it's a bit complicated as his visa is tied to his employment here, and I think he is also reluctant to look because he is at a disadvantage given he doesn't speak the local language. He also really likes his company and had planned to be with them long term. I think he will see out the year (of us being here, not 2017) and then look at other options - studying or taking a break for a few months.

@bluntness he works in a target driven job, and yes, he has individually been performing poorly since we got here, 2 big factors in that are struggling with the new business culture and not speaking the local language. Apparently if he is no longer hitting targets then no matter how good his track record is he is no longer a suitable candidate for promotion.

@C0RAL it's a bit simplistic to think that I wouldn't have to move if I didn't want to - I'm not about to issue an ultimatum of suck it up or go it alone somewhere else. While I'm happy in my job it's not the be all and end all of my life, it's great that I'm currently doing well but if I had to leave and do something else for the overall wellbeing of our lives then I would do that. 'everything is going fine except your P is unhappy in his job' well yes, but when you spend 10 hours a day in a job you are not happy in it has a pretty big impact on your life in general. Especially on the other side of the world, away from family and support networks with a big time difference. We have friends here but have known them less than 8 months, we still feel quite isolated, and I would absolutely hate to be in a job that made me that unhappy. I have a lot of sympathy for him.

In general, my thoughts for now are let's see how the next few months go (as he hasn't even made the move to the new team yet) and then reassess about where we want to be next year. I don't want to move before then (because I've booked non-refundable flights home for xmas and I'm not pissing away 600quid) but have also said to him that if he wants to move somewhere else or go home before then he absolutely can, but I won't be going with until 2018 at the earliest. And @cheese thanks again, I will have a look at the living overseas board too. Thanks again everyone for your thoughts

Yes I think offer him that he can apply for jobs abroad or back in London but say you don't want to move. It's ok to live apart for a while and this way you are giving him alleys options. Everyone makes sacrifices /decisions for the team - it's simply not possible to act in the best interests of 2 people all the time.

Do you share money? It might help him to see the 'team' approach if he can benefit from your success too.

On another note - you should think about whether you'll like marry or have kids. I'm totally going to get shot down for this but if you want kids in the near future you should factor into the balance that the sad truth is you'll be earning less whilst on mat leave and then if you wanted to work part time after. If this was the case then the team approach may be to prioritise his career a little more.

Hi @inneedofadvice

Thanks for your reply. We don't share money in terms of everything going into one pot, but we split most outgoings pretty equally. He pays a bit more rent (because he earns more) but everything else is fairly 50/50. I would never dream of laying claim to any of his savings, or expecting him to always fork out more because his salary is higher - he worked hard to earn that money and it's his.

It's funny you mention that about kids, because my argument when we were moving was that because I will be taking time out of the workforce for babies, it makes more sense to prioritise my career now, so that when I do go back in I can do so at a higher level. All going well health-wise, he won't have to take the same time out, giving him longer continuity in building his career anyway.

The plan was to spend 2-3 years here, then head home and get married and have kids, but who knows, if we end up going home then all of that could be coming my way sooner than expected!

Ah op I admire your optimism - but sadly the reality is once you have kids it's incredibly hard to go back into where you were career wise. I'd love to say it isn't so but 70-80% of my mummy friends have struggled to have their careers at the same level as before. So I guess it's a mute point is this 2-3 years now really worth prioritizing your career for now? I can see your point but imo if he's already the higher earner I'd let his career take long term priority. I say this from the point of view of being married and sharing money and bank accounts tho so definitely don't make compromises to your career without security.

Maybe agree with him you'll move but if marriage is on your cards?

Please don't prioritise his career at the expense of yours. This is a very risky strategy for you and your future children's welfare. Read the lone parent's board and see why - most men take the majority of the assets with them when the marriage ends, leaving the woman and kids with fewer assets and more liabilities.

So - that's true - but it's also impossible to work full time in a very demanding job and have kids - it's only possible if you have a stay at home dad or a lot of paid help.
It's the child rearing that pots women's careers second - not bad marriages. Most happy marriages have one partner compromising their career for the kids too.

DP and I moved countries due to immigration and Brexit consequences. However we chose together based on shared language ability and equal chances of getting a job (we arrived unemployed but are doing very well now). We arrived on an equal footing. You chose the country that you wanted and asked him to live in a country where he didnt know the language as opposed to arriving in a country where you both faced the same challenges. Whatever the solution is, it needs to be one where you are both equal.

(also, I have worked in profitable divisions that have been shuttered for strategic reasons. The fact that someone thinks OPs DP has "fucked up" shows how little people know about how many firms operate)

Of course it's not impossible to work full time in a demanding job and have children . Men do it all the time.

It's the child rearing that pots women's careers second - not bad marriages. Most happy marriages have one partner compromising their career for the kids too

I suggest you read the relationship boards . It's full of women who comporsmised her career for his because they thought they had a happy marriage. Until he buggered off with OW and most of the earning capacity of the marriage.

Only a fool would believe that they have a cast iron guarantee that their relationship / marriage will stay together forever. If you give up your careers for his you are gambling with the future security of your children .

Some of you really REALLY to wake up to economic reality and get your head out of wedding magazines.

"2 big factors in that are struggling with the new business culture and not speaking the local language"

Is he making any effort to learn the local language? I know it's not going to be instantly good enough, but has he not even tried to get to a conversational level?

I would be careful to protect your career/job prospects.

It may be that the team move will be good for him yet, but if he's very negative it could be self-fulfilling.

Soph - yes men can do it - because they have stay st home or part time wives !
Precisely my point that if she wants to do it she'll need a stay at home or part time partner too in him
He's already the bigger earner so it doesn't make sense to prioritise her career.
Really - you should keep your bitterness to yourself. Marriages can work these days you know - they aren't all doomed to fail. No one is telling her to give up work or anything - just look at themselves as a team and resource how it's best for the team.

I'm not bitter at all thank you, I'm very happily married as I have been for twenty years. And your personal attacks and name calling are childish and inappropriate .

Your team theory is wonderful. Until you are no longer a team.

I wonder why you are so keen to deny this economic reality and perpetuate the status quo which advantages men and disadvantaged children and women . Are you a man? Or a woman who needs validation for her own choices ?

I have to agree with Sophia on this Inneed just seen it too many times :( Of course everyone expects their marriage to last forever but statistically half don't. Be prepared!

Why are you so bitter! I've been clear it works both ways - man or woman one person usually has to work less when there's children involved. I've never said that has to be the man. Usually it's the person that earns less - like the op.

Ocelot there's also a degree of expecting it can help it to fail - if you are thinking of the exit route are you really thinking about how to be together? I find it so sad the cynism of people nowadays