Am i Irrational?

[scotgal2017]

This could be a verryyy long story so will make it as brief as possible! background info, been with DH for 21 years, married for 17. have 2 kids, DD is about to be 14 and DS is nearly 11. Several issues through the years, up and down like a carousel! Main issues violence in the early years although DH seems to have that very much under control but obviously this makes me very wary about being very communicative about problems, something he seems to think I should be well over by now I think. After 17 years of marriage is now constant criticism on his part (seriously, I can't even boil an in egg in the right way, he's very vocal about how things should be done the right way, i.e his way!). I let it roll as that is the way he is, if he has a hissy fit about something and leaves the room, DH rolls her eyes, kids pretty much know the deal...... serious split at least twice and the main issue bugging me now is trust, which is why I am writing this post.

Hubby works away from home and we live in a foreign country. I am very independent so I have no issue about this. In Oct 2014, after 14 years of marriage, DH was away and decided to tell me that he has visit strip clubs and lap dancing clubs throughout our years together. Was a conversation he decided to have with me as other blokes had been discussing whether they tell their OH and he obviously decided he wanted to tell me. Well, went down like a lead balloon, not really for the fact that I think he shouldn't go (although this did hurt as he has been critical of body weight over the years even though he is no adonis lol). I hit the roof and we had a very heated argument via whatsapp, resulting in me losing my shit and going to town on him in every which way imaginable. He didn't realise how much he hurt me, and the biggest issue I had is that he felt he couldn't trust me enough to tell me he had been through the years.....to me that signals no trust.it took a long time but we worked on it and I learnt to trust him again, not to the same degree but trust was there..... I asked him to tell me straight up the day after if he went out to a strip club again, just be honest with me as I can't change what you've already done, and he agreed he would tell me.
Fast forward to September 2016, he was away working and I look at bank statement, a large amount of money used in a bar, googled bar and sure enough it is a strip club! He waited 3 days and it was only when I confronted him and blew my stack he said he had gone. Excuse was a friend's credit card wasn't working so he used his in an atm in the strip club to lend it to friend (never been in one, I'm not sure I believe they have ATM's lol!!), and also that he didn't tell me because he knew it would end up in an argument.
So again my issue was he was not honest with me, which is what I had specifically asked him to do in 2014.
My issue now is that I cannot trust him and I have told him this. Last weekend, away again working and it's a batchelor's party. He took out again a lot of money from ATM which was for drinks as the bars are expensive.......I lost the plot as I had had all night to wind myself up, didn't sleep and the day after he was so casual and wanted to get amourous by whatsapp (even though we are hardly intimate anymore), I gave him what for and said he has never grasped how muych he hurt me and how much it took to trust him again after the 2nd incident. It ended with him asking if he would get verbal abuse every time he went out and I responded with can't guarantee you won't and that it's your previous actions that have put you in this predicament. We have not spoken since yesterday and I am emotionally drained. It may well have been innocent but I can't stop myself getting paranoid and wound up every time her has a guy's night out.
So am I being irrational or does he get what he deserves for abusing my trust, not once but twice???

[PookieDo]

But you are showing her that it IS acceptable:

Because you can change him
Long marriages are worth fighting for no matter what
He's ok sometimes
He doesn't hit you anymore
Stay out of his way when he is moody
Mummy is sad a lot
Daddy is mean and yells

But mum says 'this is bad but I'm not leaving'

[PookieDo]

All you will teach DD is that you can make excuses for bad behaviour

[PookieDo]

Oh I forgot: that this is your fault too because you get emotional and he doesn't like it

So teaching DD that when someone hurts you and isn't even sorry about it and doesn't try to change, maybe you caused it

[scotgal2017]

I understand what you are saying AugustBabyyeah and I could write many posts about bad stuff that have happened in the past....but everyone deserves to try and improve don;t they? That's what all the marriage experts say, isn't it? He says himself, he can't change the past......admittedly the future doesn;t look like all sunshine and rainbows, but no relationships are perfect? I'm fully aware how much of a bastard he has been but I am also fully aware that it has been my choice to stay/go back to the relationship through the years.....as someone said earlier there are 2 sides.....because I am here with an issue with my DH, that is all that is being presented to you....my original question is am I being irrational, and I asked that specifically because i know my marriage is in a very sad state....

[PookieDo]

Your posts are just full of contradictions

How is he trying to change?

People aren't perfect is a long way away from people being abusive bastards
You know all men are not like this don't you? This is not normal? This is not just a bumpy marriage? This is a dysfunctional unhappy damaging relationship.

[scotgal2017]

Perhaps my posts come across as contradictory because I recognise that although he has been a complete bastard in the past and it is not looking rosy now either, I am not 100% guilt-free? I am not saying I am to blame for the majority of what has happened/what is happening, but are you trying to tell me that none of you have had relationships where you have been at fault, at least some of the time? Perhaps I am at that point where I am defending him even though i know what has happened over many years because i am trying to recognise that he is not 100% to blame? It is very difficult for me to gauge because i have no family over here, and a very small cicle of close friends ( through my own choosing, it is not one of these cases where he tells me who I can see or what to wear etc etc).

i am always being told that he has changed.....by him....I'm sure you appreciate that

[PookieDo]

No I wasn't at fault for someone abusing me and nor are you

No one deserves to be treated this way by anyone. Nothing you could ever do would justify a man hitting a pregnant woman. Someone laying their hands on you is disgusting. Throwing you out of your own home with no belongings is cruel and nasty. No one deserves it.

If you are abusing each other (this doesn't sound like it) then it is still a horrible relationship and for the sake of your kids they should not be witnessing it

What you are focusing on is a man who hasn't changed, he's just changed his abuse. He can't get away with hitting you anymore (you leave) so he's doing other things less obvious to belittle demean and control you

[PookieDo]

The strip club thing is odd. It is confusing why you don't mind him going he just has to tell you. Why does he have to tell you if you don't mind him going? He's already been and spent loads of money by the time you find out it's too late, added to this he's nasty to you about your own body and wants to go see naked women dancing repeatedly with his friends and spend a lot of money. No you aren't being irrational but this isn't about 'trust' - you cannot trust him because he's an awful husband who treats you badly and doesn't respect women. You will never be able to trust him because he's broken your trust over and over and over - it's broken. He doesn't care that you don't like the clubs he's going to do it anyway then blame you for shouting at him then come home and sulk and ignore you, put down your looks and ignore his kids and then tell you your dinner is horrible. This is not a 'changed man'

[2littlemoos]

If your DD was telling you in the future that her DH was behaving this way what would you say?

Please don't let your children see that it is okay to be treated like shit from people who are supposed to love you. My parents were similar and my brother became just as disrespectful towards my mother. I love her dearly but cannot help but sometimes feel anger that she never left (father is now deceased) and feel hurt that she allowed all her children to witness so much pain, disrespect and sometimes voilence whilst growing up. I almost didn't move out for fear of leaving my mum behind!

We would be walking on eggshells. Is this similar for you and your DC?

Regardless you need to set an example.

I do feel for you though OP and I hope you get out on the other side. I'm sorry for throwing the DC at you and I don't want to make you feel guilty but sometimes that's what we need to hear to help make a chage.

[scotgal2017]

I was very shocked at being told that this had been happening during and before our marriage PookieDo....honestly I did mind him going as being the way he is dounle standards are very prevalent and you can bet your bottom dollar that if I had been on a girl's night out and seen a male stripper, he would have been jealous. He likes to tell me he wouldn't be but I know he would. I am constantly pointing out his double standards and have done for years. The visiting strip clubs did hurt me but what hurt more was that he didn;t tell me, like my thought, feelings, opinions on it didn;t matter and that i wasn't important enough to be told. If it's all innocent then there's no reason you shouldn't be honest with your partner, is there? This is why he got a new asshole rippped by me (via emails and whatsapp as he was away, quite conveniently as I could say how I felt and he couldn;t do anything about it if he didn;t like what I was saying!). But like a typical abuser he knew the right things to say....but i made it abundantly clear that i never wanted him to not tell me again.....I got the usual bull, we went in for a drink/I wasn't really looking/his friend's wanted to go in etc....on the last occasion I was even told that they didn't realise it was a strip club until they got through the door!! Believe me I am not naive when it comes to this, but I think i just don;t have the energy left to fight it hard anymore.....

[scotgal2017]

No I appreciate your honesty 2littlemoos and it's funny the first thing you say, because i can guarantee that id DH thought DD was in an abusive relationship when she was older he would be the first one to do something to stop it, but that's the irony with these men isn;t it?

She is a clever kid but having answers from you all has made me think that i need to sit down with them and discuss what they think needs to be done....

[rolopolovolo]

Your husband is a terrible husband. There's nothing you could do to ever make any of this your fault because everything he's done is so utterly awful. You're like a frog in boiling water, any single thing he's done is grounds for an immediate divorce. Combined: wow.

Please understand that your DD is looking at you and when she sees you placating him, forgiving him and excusing him, that's what she learns her role should be. She'll very likely look for men just like him and mimic your behavior in her future relationships. Being "clever" doesn't matter. Clever women end up in abusive relationships all the time.

[Shoxfordian]

I think you really need to consider leaving him OP.

He lies to you; he's been violent to you and he's critical of you. Nothing to love there and I agree with the others saying your daughter is learning how relationships work from you and your example.

[rizlett]

Op - sorry but your H is a liar. He will tell you anything and everything to keep his life just as it is.

He lies to keep you in your place.

He lies to tell you its your fault.

He will say anything to get want he wants.

Please look at the freedom programme online to see how good men behave so you can learn what is right and what isn't.

Read other threads on mn about controlling men.

He is controlling you through and through. He lies. He lies. He lies.

[Aperolspritzer123]

OP Your story is very similar to mine. I was with my stbxh for 20 years - 2dc. He was also violent in the beginning but not for many years now. The abuse he inflicted just turned into more emotional and psychological - like yours, I was critisised constantly and i have realised now that 5 months after he's gone I was actually living in the fear that he would physically hurt me I just didn't want to admit that and made excuses for his behaviour constantly as I so wanted it to work. I grew up in an abusive situation as a child too and I also would consider myself to be reasonably intelligent but it's definitely like the frog in the boiling water analogy.
In the last 6 months before he left my dc saw way too much shit and he also started his abusive mind games towards our dc. Even now, he DOESN'T EVEN BELIEVE HE HAS DONE ANYTHING WRONG. It's part of the abuser profile I think.
My dc are 11 and 4 and you might think that a close relationship with me where I would explain that dad's behaviour isn't ok or normal would be enough to make them understand but my actions totally contradicted that didn't they? I forgave him time and time again. I allowed him to speak to me disrespectfully In front of them I allowed him to bully me and belittle me and call me names in an effort to 'keep the peace' in the end I realised that I had a responsibility to them to get rid of him. To Show them what people should do when someone is ruining your life. It was hard and they sometimes even blamed me. My ds eventually felt angry towards me for staying with him for so long and I understand that. Our house is happy now. Ds even worries that I'm gonna get back with his dad! Well why not? That's what I showed him I did so many times?
You need to LTB, show your kids the example that will shape all their future relationships - it's not too late to change the one you're currently showing them.

[Augustbabyyeah]

Please try and see that you are being made to feel guilty and responsible for his abusive behaviour. This is how abusers operate. You've mentioned several times that you're not perfect either but that misses the point. Abusers belittle and humiliate their victims until they start to believe the jibes and put downs.

There is a world of difference between the ups and downs and give and take of a normal relationship and what you are describing. You are with an abuser, you and your children are being abused.

Please contact a Women's Aid for help and support in leaving this abusive man. Sending love and strength x

[Hoppinggreen]

He has been violent, is constantly critical and is generally an arsehole but the only thing that seems to bother you is the strip clubs?

[candygs]

I am in complete agreement with Hoppinggreen

[Augustbabyyeah]

Years of bullying and abuse results in someone who thinks being criticised and abused is normal.

[Bluntness100]

The question here is do you think you can repair it together? Don't ask the kids what's to be done that's really unfair on them.

Think about it, can you both fix it then talk to one another and if the answer is yes, create some ground rules and agree how you will do that.

Being angry whenever he goes out, although understandable is just a vicious circle and achieves nothing. You need to make some decisions, can you forgive, can you fix it together, and if not you need to leave.

But I'll repeat do not ask your children what needs to be done about your marriage.

[scotgal2017]

Thanks for all the messages, just to update you, we have decided to separate and discussed all the details on 31st July. He left for work that day and the only way we could sort it out what the arrangements were going to be was by messages, that's how bad it had got. He had said he loves me but we can't go on the way we are arguing all the time about everything, we are all unhappy and it's not good for the kids. I know deep down it is the right thing to do but I suppose I'm going through the normal separation motions: not sleeping/eating, crying, wondering if we could make it work then remembering all the bad stuff. Just looking for some words of encouragement as even though it was very rough, we still had some good times and I do love him but I know that's not enough to make it right in this situation. Just feeling very down, I told the kids yesterday morning and so i'm trying to put on the normal act to support them. I feel like i've been on a 7 day bender in Magaluf!!

[yetmorecrap]

I know how you feel, my H sometimes talks to me like I am a toddler, airports in particular and also feel I can't do anything right, from leaving plugs plugged in to notcwinding cable back to his standard etc, it's very wearing. I can say though no one 'has' to go to these clubs, they can politely abstain, he goes because he wants to

[Adora10]

He's doing you a favour, he's horrible and the affect this shit relationship has been having on your kids could be irreversible; if you feel miserable in it imagine how they must feel, they will think it's normal to address each other with zero respect, be allowed to be violent and solve issues by shouting the loudest, I honestly couldn't live with the guilt if I carried on with this, it will just be because you've become used to it OP, so it normalises it for you, it's really not a good relationship.

[Racmactac]

He's not violent to you now because you have moderated your behaviour to appease him. I suspect if you step out of line again he will take the next step from being angry and be violent to you.

I get that you are in a difficult situation but this sounds fucking horrendous and I have no idea why you would want to stay.

Wtf are you teaching your daughter.

Pack your bags and leave ASAP but be aware the immediate period after you leave is the time he is most likely to explode.

[Adora10]

No perhaps at time you were not blameless but any man that is violent, esp to a woman is a disgusting loser, simple as that.