Please comment on this incident

[mikado1]

Ds (5) pulls runner on the bed in anger, disturbing my folded clothes. I told him he needed to put things back as they were. Before he did, DH straightened runner so I whispered 'He's to do it', at which he threw it around agsin and said 'Bloody he'll, fine', really annoyed. So I said 'good reaction', considering our son needs to learn about appropriate reactions. He then picked up a bundle of coins and threw them on the floor while muttering under his breath. I said 'good modelling' (I know I know, i just wanted to make a point and knew ds wouldn't get what I was saying. He then came over to me and hissed 'Dont you tucking speak to me like that'. He then went into the bathroom and loudly banged things around. My ds1 then got up and started fixing my clothes..

I know I haven't covered myself in glory here either but feel I cannot communicate with him. What are your thoughts on this incident, as an outsider?

Ironically RedPeppers, he is the one who gets most annoying when ds does the same !

Physically messing up the bed runner/clothes, slamming things around, coming up close to you and swearing were all aggressive things to do. Does he do those things often?

What are your wider

OP isn't responsible for her H's reactions. Her comments weren't ideal, but don't excuse his aggression.

Are you the only parent most of the time, in reality?

Does your dh pay enough attention to your dc or is that relationship suffering too?

The way it was explained to me is that from now on (5 or 6 up) your dc will be modelling your dh's behaviour, both in terms of how they deal with life generally but also how they deal with you, ie dc will be copying dh and will talk to you in the same way. Have you seen this at all yet? Would that worry you?

Apparently the father son relationship becomes more important at around 6 and so the copying intensifies.

And this will affect how dc enters into relationships of their own , when older.

Bluntness I disagree. If OP's dh has been like this from dot, the ds's physical reaction is not surprising. Ds is modelling. Which is what OP was angry about. Which is why she reacted as she did especially if it has been happening for years. I don't think she was being an arse at all.

Awful behaviour from your DH. I don't think your slightly snarky comment to him is anything like on the scale of the angry, abusive behaviour he exhibited towards you.

Sorry OP, I think your dh sounds like a wanker. Would life be easier without the manchild?

What is the angriest he has ever been and what did he do?

If I was your DH and you'd spoken to me like that, I would have reacted badly as well. It's obvious that this is just the tip of the iceberg and you have some serious communication issues that have become cumulative and it doesn't need much to tip either of you over the edge. Maybe you should focus on trying to resolve whatever's going wrong between you both right now rather than lecturing your DH about modelling. The modelling will fix itself if you work out your communication issues.

hundredmilesanhour are you saying that if your partner had spoken to you badly you would have behaved badly (in front of your child) and that it would have been your partner's fault? And that if your partner behaved properly to you THEN you would behave properly in front of your child (and the modelling problem would be fixed)? Really?

My comment is that this passive-aggressive sniping between you and dp (trying to win/be right and make each other wrong) is unhelpful both to your relationship and parenting and could be greatly improved with a few relationship counselling sessions.

have only read original and first couple of responses. you seem to have a very condescending way of speaking to dp. likely to provoke an angry response imo. perhaps he speaks to you similarly??? think you need to talk to each other about more stuff

For me there is a vast difference between "sniping" and stropping a bit verbally and physically acting out.

By physically attacking inanimate objects a clear message is sent that violence to a person is easily next. This behaviour is threatening, designed to intimidate and not something that should be seen as tolerable.

Home should be a safe place.

DH shouldn't have straightened runner, DS should have been left we to do it - DS messed up the clothes you rightly told him he'd have to make good. DH had no reason at all to get involved and undermine you; his over-reaction is a sign that something else is annoying him. Good for you for pulling him up - you'd have to be saintlike not to. Have a conversation with him about the incident but if he won't listen or starts shouting and stamping then that conversation needs to focus heavily on respect, and aggressive behaviour being 100% unacceptable. He does not own you

Expecting a 5yr old to straighten bed and tidy clothes is a bit over the top isn't it? - id probably have done the same and left child to tidy clothes rather than both - its not as if it's even vaguely important to have tidy runner on which to place clothes anyway?

QueenofEsgaroth I agree, aggression and having a go at your partner while they're actively engaged in disciplining dc are not on. I didn't really mean that both actions were equal, but no matter who started it both partners are involved/engaging and dc is witnessing. Counselling helps lay out to both partners what is and is not acceptable, which I assume would be very helpful for OP.

Does he do that often? Talking to you like that, and banging things around?

If he doesn't see that as problem and refuses to do something about it, I'd advise you to separate from him.

Your son is learning bad behaviour that way, just as you pointed out.

its not as if it's even vaguely important to have tidy runner on which to place clothes anyway?

I'm a very untidy person and wouldn't mind my things being untidy, but if I had a 5 year old who cannot control his anger, I would make him work to reverse the damage he did, too. He has to learn that his actions have consequences.

Vestal how can you possibly advise OP to leave her DH over a tiff?
Are you for real?

They had a barney over parenting and tempers flared.
I think some of these responses are really out of proportion.

Vestal how can you possibly advise OP to leave her DH over a tiff?

I can because if this was the only time this happened, and her DH is a total sweetheart at all other times, she'll know this. She's not a zombie who will follow all advice just because it has been written.

But I suspect this is actually part of a larger problem.

My father never behaved like this towards my mother when I was a child. I quite possibly have higher standards than other people.

Vestal, are you not involved In a relationship, so this why you are quoting your parents marriage?

Itsanewdawn, I think she knew what reaction she would get, so as such was basically goading him. Aggression isn't good, and never acceptable, but no need to goad someone. So both wrong in my view and she accepts this,

Honestly, you were extremely provoking. I'd be really pissed off had you spoken to me like that. Sit down, talk to your DH about modelling etc, but speak to him like a twat and you can expect to see him act like a twat. You deserved it.

I don't think I'm harsh to ds - no punishment as such, just sort out what you've messed up. It was 2 folded t-shirts so no big deal.

I agree that losing control/banging things is not on. I have spoken to him repeatedly about modelling (he was in counselling for anger issues but seems to have stopped going without discussion) which is why I just felt fed up to see again how he over reacted and continued to so wanted to point it out. I agree he probably thought I was a gf.

It's funny vestal said that because I thought the same today - never once would my father have done that and I've known him 40 years. How many times will my son see it when he gets to 40?

Vestal you say you never saw your dad act like that but did you ever see your mum speak to your dad like a naughty kid and basically humiliate him in front of you?
Or is it likely that you wouldn't have remembered because you were a kid and didn't have any idea what to expect?

You're very lucky if you grew up in a completely harmonious family but lots of people bicker and disagree and it's a normal part of family life.
You don't just walk out because someone has shown anger. You work it out and move on and try to be kinder to each other.

Mikado1 you've (rightly) got high standards and certain views about what you want your DS exposed to but it sounds like a lot of pressure and undermining of your DH. He's not living up to your standards by the posts you've made here and I guess that would be contributing to his anger and making him feel worse.

I'm not an apologist for bad behaviour but I do know that criticism almost never works when someone already feels shit...

bluntness and anyone else who is excusing the dh's behaviour on the basis that it was goading, provoking, undermining or that the exchange was merely a tiff or bickering:

1. The OP whispered "he's to to do it" to which most people would say "oh ok" - DH responded with swearing and throwing and AFTER this OP made 2 sarcastic comments.

1. DH reacted with shouting, throwing, swearing, aggressive behaviour, getting physical with things in a different room. All IN FRONT OF OR IN THE HEARING OF A 5 YEAR OLD.

When you have a parent like the DH who is unable to regular their own emotion and respond to things in an appropriate way, firstly it is that persons fault and responsibility and no one else's, and secondly it is well known that is is very likely that the children would also not be able to regulate their own emotions or behave appropriately and this results in for example exclusion, trouble at school, problems with future relationships, and chances are ds would treat women he has relationships the same way as DH. In relation to all of this it is unlikely to be the DH who will deal with the fallout, it will be other people.

Sorry OP, it is pretty heartbreaking because if you stay it isn't great - as an understatement - but if you leave the chances are DH would behave like with DS when they are on their own.

I would say your DH is abusive, and if you spoke to Relate they would suggest you leave, I think.

ginger it isn't the OP suffering here it is the child.