Problem with mother going too far now...

[lisalisa]

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Would she go to see a counsellor with you? Someone she would accept to be independent? Could you both go to see the Rabbi together and would he be able to arbitrate so you both had the chance to tell your story? I'm just trying to think of something that would take the immediate tension down a few notches and stop it, as you say, getting out of hand.
It sounds like a dreadful situation and you've done really well not to leave the country.
Hope things get better soon.

hello lisalisa - i have a similar tale, though my mother is an alcoholic. all i can say is to not let her have that power over you and your children. it is your time now. i would really try and start distancing yourself and your family from her very slowly, not explicitly telling her as that will probably lead to further blackmail which you have already detailed. this will be pretty exhausting but start to make other arrangements each sunday. be bright and breezy and say 'oh sorry we're off to so and so's birthday party etc. if she phones and starts to press those buttons, criticise you, just make an excuse someone's at the door got to go. i would really start to put subtle obstacles in her way so she can't dominate your lives as much. the key would be to move area - is this a possibility? she sounds as if her behaviour could be very dangerous and YOU only have such a short time with your children before they grow up- it is so fleeting. i didn't want to let history repeat itself. i felt i only had the one chance to get it right so we moved about an hour away. this has put a healthy distance between us and i now find i have begun to look forward to seeing her as it is now down to once a month and on my terms. it has forced her to find other people and outlets for her behaviour. i never tell her if we have any problems as i can't rely on her and it will be around the village on her next drinking binge. your mother sounds very jealous. this is her problem not yours. i hope you find a way xx

she sounds like she has serious mental health issues lisalisa, v bad to diagnose based on someone else's description but sounds like it could be borderline personality disorder to me...whatever her condition, i think it is serious imo. threatening to call social services is a very very agressive action. i wouldn't worry too much as i'm pretty sure any professional would realise fairly quickly what was going on. but i would sit her down (or talk to her on the phone) and explain how seriously you're taking this and that you can't see her until she has got some help. i really really sympathise. this is a bad situation that is turning really nasty.

i totally agree with shrub about distancing yourself, and actually her way might be far less confrontational...but whatever you do, you must protect yourself and your family...you are not her mother, remember that...

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lisalisa, some thoughts (as always please disregard if not on right lines). What is very interesting here is the extent to which your mother is seeking outside authority for her treatment of you, which says to me (a) root of her behaviour is extreme insecurity and (b) you might be able to turn that to your advantage - ie, that outside authority could be source of protection (ie, direct opposite of the threat she thinks it is) for you.

I realise that saying that she is desperately insecure is not much practical help - but could it give you a bit of distance on her behaviour, in that (guessing here) if it wasn't you she was terrorising it would be the poor girl on the Boots checkout? (And incidentally it sounds like she is very good indeed at homing in on someone's own deep worries - horrid - but another typical talent of the very insecure.)

On the outside authority, is your Rabbi a sympathetic and sensible chap? Is it worth you and he (in private) working out a strategy so that if you have to have these meetings they can be used - without letting her realise it - to set up systems that will keep your mother off your back?

Also, another possibility: might your mother have something medical going on (not necessarily thinking psychological here, actually more eg heart disease, which can have a severe effect on personality, even where personality's already tricky) and there's a doctor you can speak to/refer her to?

And finally, though not suggesting this except as very last resort: you could always call her bluff and suggest you use the courts to formalise access. Would need looking into, but I suspect she would find that she already has much more access than she'd be granted.

So, can't you say she IS forbidden from seeing her grandchildren?

Lisalisa, first of all {hugs{}}. It's a very difficult and painful situation for you. I think Shrub has given you some excellent advice. If I may add a bit, only give your mother the minimum of information, and don't expect her to remember anything in the way that you remember it.

If, for example, you decide that you have to go out on a Sunday, you don't need to tell her exactly where - that way she can't follow you or tell you how you should be doing it.

Of course she will heap coals of fire on your head for doing that! But just let it wash over you - I know it's very hard to hear that. This is what I say to myself 'She is saying that because she has a problem. Her problem is nothing to do with me - so what she is saying is nothing to do with me.' You need to believe in yourself, practice, and eventually it really does work.

Even if you manage to have a clear discussion with her, or you lay down the new ground rules simply and succinctly, don't expect your mother to remember them as you do. She will remember things as is convenient to her.

I doubt very much whether she would succeed in getting Social Services involved, and even if she did, I doubt whether they would find anything wrong at all with your family - they would soon see the true cause! To strengthen yourself and your family, why don't you have a talk with your Rabbi? Mention your concerns and create a link with him, so that if SS were ever to investigate you, you have an active connection with a respected person to help vouch for your characters.

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The phone is a good idea. I was just about to ask whether you have an answerphone so that you could filter the calls before answering.

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I don't think the mis-remembering is anything to do with mental illness (not discounting your mother's state of mind), I think it's just Yiddishe Mamma taken to extremes. I've got one too - but not quite as extreme.

You don't have to tell her anything you don't want to, Lisalisa. It's phenomenally difficult to break the habit, but this is your life and your family - you are not answerable to your mother. Maybe I'm being too severe, I'm not that good at interpersonal stuff. It's possible that following my advice would create a complete rift...I don't know. But at some point you have to make up your mind not to let your mother rule your life.

BTW, when everyone was changing their names for Christmas last year, I decided to change mine for Chanukah and kept it on!

Lisalisa, sory you are going through this, we had a similar situation with MIL and it only became resolved when we moved out of the area (out of the country should I say?) but there were things we did to keep our weekends to ourselves. First was never to set up a routine, we will visit one sunday the other we will be meeting friends, then we would go out together but tried to avoid as much to make it a *tradition" to meet on X day.
She used to ring us every day at 8 am, knowing it was her we stoped picking the phone every day. If we felt like she was going to land at out living room sometime during the day and we were not in the modd for her criticisms we made the effort to have days out so we will be in the road early enough for her to miss us, and just to avoid offending her (or to set the lion free, IYKWIM) DH would ring her at the end of the day to see how she was.

Of course it took a lot of effort but we had some time to ourselves, and with a bit of luck she will start finding other things to do if you are not around and with time she will be also busy so couldn't come so often. If this doesn't work, consider moving but try to avoid confrontations as she won't change and just make the situation worse.

All the best.

Lisalisa - what an awful situation for you. I don't have any better advice than that which you've already been given, but just to reassure you again that IMO it is highly unlikely that you would have any problems with social services at all. I'd be interested to know on what grounds your mother thinks she was reporting you in the first place? Because your dd doesn't play piano? I know there are lots of scary stories about SS intervention but I really can't see that you would have a case to answer at all. Please try not to worry too much about that - it is blackmail and you have the support of influential and sensible people in your community by the sounds of it.

And, just to add, with my limited experience of mental illness and obsessive/attention-seeking behaviour in mothers, I would say there is something going on here. Yiddishe momma or not - it seems beyond the pale to me. However, I would imagine getting any kind of diagnosis with your mother's consent would be a difficult task.

You do not have to answer to her any more. Try not to be swayed by her emotional blackmail and your guilt. It's hard, I know, but you are not responsible for her and her actions. Good luck and (((())))

Oh Lisa this sounds horrible for you.
Hard though it sounds - and even harder to put into action, I think I would be very direct with her rather than adopting yet more sophisticated evading tactics which will only fuel her paranoia and insecurity and make her worse.
I think I would tell her that her allegations are sheer nonsense, that SS may well investigate and you are happy for them to do so because you are completely confident that they will find nothing wrong, and that until she has calmed down you would be happier if she did not see the children.
SS are very aware of vindictive calls and have more to do than waste time once they have checked.

Telling the children that their father is mad is a terrible, terrible thing to do, and sadly, I think you do have to keep her out of your home if she is going to behave like that.

I have a friend whose MIL (but not married IYSWIM) called SS and police because she didn't think he was sending DS to school in warm enough clothes on the days that he had him, and again because he took him to school on a child attachment on the back of a bike. It was checked - and dismissed.

lisalisa - what a horrible situation to be in. My father's second wife was a bit like that - attention seeking, guilt piling etc. I put up with it whilst my father was alive - no more. Her own daughter has moved 100 miles away to have a life that doesn't involve her all the time. You mother sounds MUCH worse - really think you have to draw a line and stick to it. But that's easy for me to say not being in your shoes.

Just wanted you to have some support, if feeble.

Good grief. Not sure what to suggest re your mother but as regards social servces in your situation I would either ring them myself or go and see my GP, and explain the situation asking a) is there anything that can be done to "help" your mother and b) so that someone official knows in case she does try and pull a fast one.

Also talking to the Rabbi may be a good idea.

Oh dear Lisa, sorry to hear about all this.

My Dp's mother is very very much like this and we have now cut all contact with her.
I have told dp that he can see her if he wishes but under no circumstances must she see the kids (or his dad for that matter).

I can understand how difficult this must be for you, especially given that she is your mother not mil.

Can't really think of any useful advice, sorry.

Hope you can get something sorted soon.

Good luck

Lisalisa, I feel really sorry for you going through this. Does your mother suffer form depression, (please excuse me if i repeat as I have not read all the thread).
The reason I ask is that she is taking such extreme measures and is so insecure. My mother is very similar and plays one against each other in the family and since my father's death she has become unbearable with the guilt process.
As for social services she has showed and undesirable hatred and revenge for you. I think she needs help and I think maybe a close friend or relative maybe the answer but I not sure how you go about it. As she may turn on them, what she is doing no mother would go that far. Sorry lisalisa but it must be driving yo mad. larsxx

I'm sorry but I am going to bring up something else for you to worry about, the effect she will have on the children as they get older. They will less and less unconditionally adore her and start seeing how she says nasty things to mummy, and she may cause some hurt and uncertainty there to them in later years too.

I would definately discuss everything with your Rabbi, he has been made to come to this way of thinking by everything your mother has been saying, he could prove to be a very useful ally.

Also I know this may seem drastic but would it be worth either discussing your concerns, and making sure they are documented, with your solicitor as something else to flag up should you be investigated. Also, I wonder whether SS would be receptive to you contacting them now and discussing your fears about your mother? I very much doubt they are keen on time wasters such as your mother and may alter the way that they deal with her? Ultimately surely she may be liable for prosecution for abusing the service. I can't imagine you would be the first person to try and do this!

Ultimately you have nothing to fear. You really shouldn't be held to ransom by this woman anymore, she enjoys the power she holds over you and it is a power she should not have. Perhaps by taking some of the steps mentioned by the others in this thread to distance yourself, she will realise that she does not have this hold over you anymore and her negative power over you will improve without the need to terminate the relationship completely.

I'm sure any investigation by SS will show you to be completely in the right. Please don't let her run your life on her terms, weigh up your options and work out if you feel the pain she causes is worth the pleasure (at the moment) she gives your children. I hope things work out for you.

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Lisalisa, what a horrible situation for you. I haven't got anything to add to all the good advice you've had already except for one thing that occurred to me - if you feel you have to keep the visits going, can you not take the children to your parent's house? Then you don't have to feel guilty about your father's journey, and you have control over the situation as you can simply leave if she starts?